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knicks1248
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11/29/2004  2:48 PM
Posted - 09/22/2004 : 00:43:54
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i think the trade for McGrady is WAY undervalued---heck getting Steve Francis who is a 20 point 6 .5 reb 6 assit guy at PG would be in the range of enough but to throw in Cutino Mobley who is one of the most under-rated players in the league+ a 6-11 270 pound athletic shot blocker--i think the magic did very well heck it reminds me a bit of when they traded for Grant hill--they gave up 3-1 in that trade and look how it turned out. They added Dwight Howard Hedo turkglo, they re getting back garrity and hill+ they added tremendous veteran depth.
if you look at the line up of

C Cato 6-11 270
PF Howard 6-11 245
SF Hill 6-8 225
SG Mobley 6-4 200
PG Francis 6-3 205
C Battie 6-11 240
PF Garrity 6-9 240
SF Turkglo 6-10 225
SG Bogans 6-5 215
PG Nelson 6-0 200

depth
6-10 240 Bradley
6-8 210 Augmon
6-5 210 Stevenson
6-10 250 Declerq

this team is MUCH MUCH improved defensively more diversified fire power with much needed quality depth

of course it remains to be seen with Grant Hill but all things are go with him this team talent wise is AS GOOD as ANY team in the east iF healthy IMHO. they have the high quality size and dpeth in the frontcourt that is pivotal--a top 3 PG and they are much more athletic as a whole unit. Even if grant ends up out--this team will be radically improved. if the team is as is they will compete for a 4-8 seed I think they are every bit as good as the knicks or better.
ES
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fishmike
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11/29/2004  3:11 PM
that teams isnt .500 if Hill isnt playing the way he is. I like the TMac deal because I think he is overrated and the Magic got good depth back.

Heck, If we had Hill playing the 3 for us at the level he's playing right now we would be 9-3.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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11/29/2004  3:22 PM
good call by BRIGGS...i thought ORL was making a mistake in trading T-Mac, but it turns out they made a great trade afterall.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
MaTT4281
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11/29/2004  4:02 PM
Yes, good call. It's just hard for me to tell how much of their recent success if coming from the trade, and how much is coming from Hill's return.
djsunyc
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11/29/2004  4:06 PM
briggs hyped up almost every team in the east to be as good or better than the knicks. he got this one right...so far. and yes, it's all b/c of grant hill. they got an all world player fall into their laps. it was a good trade, they got the #1 pick, but most importantly they got hill back. good karma in orlando. bad karma for tmac...so far.
knicks1248
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11/29/2004  4:08 PM
It's not so much that T mac is overrated, it's just that he hasnt done well in the systems they put him in, he's also pretty selfish, takes just has many bad shots as Jamal, and can't play defense the way JVG would like his best player to play.

The guy just has loads of talant, but isn't a bright player to say the least.
When you start asking players to do things they really haven't done in there whole careers, it starts taking away from what they do best.
I feel if a player truly wants to change his ways and his game, he needs to work on his own at doing so.

The rockets rearly ever get to the freethrow line ( seems as though I heard that somewhere before) and don't rebound the ball well at all.
And Charlie ward.....Please your forever stuck in mediocracy with him as your starter.
ES
playa2
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11/29/2004  4:22 PM
Posted by knicks1248:

It's not so much that T mac is overrated, it's just that he hasnt done well in the systems they put him in, he's also pretty selfish, takes just has many bad shots as Jamal, and can't play defense the way JVG would like his best player to play.

The guy just has loads of talant, but isn't a bright player to say the least.
When you start asking players to do things they really haven't done in there whole careers, it starts taking away from what they do best.
I feel if a player truly wants to change his ways and his game, he needs to work on his own at doing so.

The rockets rearly ever get to the freethrow line ( seems as though I heard that somewhere before) and don't rebound the ball well at all.
And Charlie ward.....Please your forever stuck in mediocracy with him as your starter.

Gundy is gonna ruin scorers everywhere he goes
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
gunsnewing
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11/29/2004  4:32 PM
not scorers...guards who need the ball in their hands. That is why H20 was successful because he doesn't handle the ball.
TMS
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11/29/2004  4:59 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

briggs hyped up almost every team in the east to be as good or better than the knicks.

you have a point there...even a broken clock is right twice a day.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
franco12
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11/29/2004  5:08 PM
I am always fascinated to look at the box score of houston games and see that Ming score 9 pts-

What is up with that?

I'm a big fan of Jeff- but I can see him getting sacked midway through this year if things don't change.
Bonn1997
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11/29/2004  5:11 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

briggs hyped up almost every team in the east
Yup; he hyped up every team in the east except the one currently with the #3 seed (the Knicks).
Bonn1997
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11/29/2004  5:19 PM
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=5666

Posted by BRIGGS - 08/19/2004 : 22:52:20
C_ Blount 7-0 255
PF Jefferson 6-10 260
SF Pierce 6-6 235
SG Davis 6-7 200
PG Payton 6-4 190
C Lafrentz 6-11 245
PF Gugliotta 6-10 250
SF Welsch 6-7 210
SG Tony Allen 6-4 215
PG Banks 6-1 200

PG West 6-4 180
C Perkins 6-10 280

this is an example of whati think is a deeper longer more athletic team in the east with enough talent and size to do soemthings.
BRIGGS
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11/29/2004  5:50 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=5666

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS - 08/19/2004 : 22:52:20
C_ Blount 7-0 255
PF Jefferson 6-10 260
SF Pierce 6-6 235
SG Davis 6-7 200
PG Payton 6-4 190
C Lafrentz 6-11 245
PF Gugliotta 6-10 250
SF Welsch 6-7 210
SG Tony Allen 6-4 215
PG Banks 6-1 200

PG West 6-4 180
C Perkins 6-10 280

this is an example of whati think is a deeper longer more athletic team in the east with enough talent and size to do soemthings.



I went over a lot of teams in the east, how i think they improved. im pretty sure i left most praises for orlando
washington and philly. i still dont think philly has played its personell right--they need to play dalemabrt 40 minutes, and I think I was reasonably accurate on how the east would improve-sans chicago NJ Atlanta

Teams like Boston and Mil are going to be right there IMHO with the Knicks in the middle of the pack.

I think that Clev has shown that it belongs as a top 4 team and that wash and Orlando have shown they are clear cut 5-6. I believe the knicks are where I thought they be among the leaders of the 7-8 race.

Winning the division only means you get into the playoffs, it doesnt guarantee first round home court anymore. If team 6 has a better record than team 3--team 6 gets homecourt. that means we could win the division and end up playing detr, wash or orlando on the road. things can change--look at Indiana and Detroit without its main pieces
wash is 7-5 without kwame brown and etan thomas. trades can come into play and early tanking can come in as well.
boston could be a team that might tank it just to save face in management and then again they might play like they did at the garden
RIP Crushalot😞
teslawlo
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11/29/2004  8:45 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I think I was reasonably accurate on how the east would improve-sans chicago NJ Atlanta
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Bonn1997
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11/29/2004  10:20 PM
Winning the division only means you get into the playoffs, it doesnt guarantee first round home court anymore. If team 6 has a better record than team 3--team 6 gets homecourt.
Are you sure about that? I thought it was only in round 2 (and thereafter) that the team with the lower (i.e., worse) seed could still have homecourt advantage if it had the better record. Either way, it's still nice to face the 6th seed rather than a much better team. It'll probably mean playing a 43 win team instead of a 50 win team.
Kwazimodal
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11/29/2004  10:21 PM
Their success hinged on Grant Hill being healthy(still does)if he wasnt they wouldnt of had the same results.If I were a betting man,I would have laid odds against it.

Dwight Howard is having a great season,at this point he has my vote for ROY.Okafor is right there with him but Howard is putting up his numbers on a team with alot more talent.

What I really like is how he doesnt give up on a rebound,he will fight to keep it a live a ball until he can bring it down,alot of big men will give up after one jump maybe two,he keeps fighting for the ball.
manilaballer
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11/29/2004  11:34 PM
The Magic look very good in that trade when you compare them to Houston's mediocre performance so far. But really (upon hindsight, which is 20/20), has "Me-Mac" ever really proven himself to be a winner?! Heck, the Magic are gonna surpass their win total for 2003-2004 by early next year! That was an awful year for Me-Mac and the Magic franchise.

Good trade for the Magic. Good call by Briggs.
KNICKS 2006
simrud
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11/30/2004  12:13 AM
Tmac was a winner the few years before in Orlando. I'm not sure what happened last year, but I think it was about deapth. Orlando just had a bad ball club.

On the other hand, Houston should be doing a lot better. It is early, but if Tmac does not take the Rockets to the finals, he will push really hard for the selfish looser prototype in my book.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
simrud
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11/30/2004  12:13 AM
Sorry I mean the playoffs.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
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Not bad Briggs
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