Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

he's definitely not a liability...but the extension he signed did diminish his trade value...i think that's fairly obvious.

I don't think the extension diminished his trade value; I think Isiah is just proposing lopsided offers by including Moochie and/or Shandon in the proposals.

in your view, what can KT get the Knicks straight up if Isiah were to try & trade him by himself?

I have no idea since I haven't talked to other teams. I personally don't want to trade Kurt anyway. I'd rather have him come off the bench like he did on our 99 team that went to the finals. If we are going to trade him, his value will be higher if (a) Isiah doesn't insist on Moochie and/or Shandon being included in the deal and (b) Isiah is willing to wait until some team's PF gets injured and they need one.

Thats the problem with KT, you are right when you say that KT should come off the bench. KT is a type of player that whines and bitches when things don't go his way. He has a tendency to be heard which can hurt the team. Last year when the Knicks went to Dice as a starter KT bitched like there was no tomarrow. If Sweetney takes his spot this year will he take his new role in stride I highly doubt that he will take his role in stride. He is going to become a distraction to the team. Thats why its imperative to trade KT away before he becomes a distraction. KT thinks he is a starter because he was a starter on a crappy team, now he is on a good team and he still thinks he is starting material.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

he's definitely not a liability...but the extension he signed did diminish his trade value...i think that's fairly obvious.

I don't think the extension diminished his trade value; I think Isiah is just proposing lopsided offers by including Moochie and/or Shandon in the proposals.

in your view, what can KT get the Knicks straight up if Isiah were to try & trade him by himself?

I have no idea since I haven't talked to other teams. I personally don't want to trade Kurt anyway. I'd rather have him come off the bench like he did on our 99 team that went to the finals. If we are going to trade him, his value will be higher if (a) Isiah doesn't insist on Moochie and/or Shandon being included in the deal and (b) Isiah is willing to wait until some team's PF gets injured and they need one.

i'm just saying, you say that you don't think the extension diminished his trade value at all...but it seems to me there were alot more teams interested in trading for KT before he signed that extension than there are now (Malik Rose & SA's 1st round pick offer for example)...i figure it's logical to assume that his trade value went down due to his contract extension.

it's not the salary he's slated to make this year that's the issue here...it's the length of the extension that's driving his trade value down...when you consider the fact that he's owed $22 million over 3 years after this season & will be 35 at the end of his deal, you can figure out why teams may have been turned off...to say that his trade value is the same now as it was when he had an expiring deal isn't realistic.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by islesfan:

All Norris is now is a potential salary dump toss in on any deal Isiah tries to make. How could Spoon have any less value?

You're back Isles? Maybe you'll actually respond to the comments people directed toward you on this thread: http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=6051&page=2

I know you've missed me Bonn. Sorry I've been busy and haven't had a chance to read much less reply to every thread. Trust me, I was more than happy to respond to those comments directed towards me. It wasn't very difficult.

I greatly missed you

Eh, if worst comes to worst and we are stuck with Krazy Kurt for a while, I can live with it. Yeah, duke is about as stable as Milton Bradley on sherm, but he can spread the floor with his shot…cant say that about a lot of folks these days. I’ll take my chances with him rather than a worthless scrub like Brian Cardinal, or Adonal Foyle wrap.

Posted by MS:

Kurt started in 99 he didn't come off the bench, maybe when we started playing the Pacers, but no before then

Ewing,Kurt,LJ,Houston,Ward
Bench:Childs, Spree, Camby, Dudley

wasn't Spree starting at SF & KT was the 8th man off the bench by the end of the season?:

C - Ewing
PF - LJ
SF - Spree
SG - Houston
PG - Ward
6 - Camby
7 - Childs
8 - KT
9 - Dudley
(can't recall who rounded out the last 3 roster spots...were David Wingate & Rick Brunson on that team?)

Our starting line up for the entire 99 season was Ewing, Thomas, LJ, Houston and Ward with Spree, Camby and Childs as the second unit. Sprewell was inserted into the starting lineup when Ewing went down (with the achillies injury) in the Eastern Conf. Finals against the Pacers. Then the lineup was Camby, LJ, Sprewell, Houston and Ward.

New York verse Miami (first round) which I was just watching 3 weeks ago on tape:

Starting line-ups

Ewing
Thomas
Johnson
Houston
Ward

Sprewell and Houston rarely played at the same time in the series period. That was the knock on them up until that point. Therefore VanGundy use to substitute H20, Ward and LJ with Sprewell, Childs and Camby. Houston and Sprewell didn't play significant minutes at the same time until the Hawks series in the second round. When Ewing went down, the starting lineup was transformed. LJ was moved to the 4, Spree was inserted into the starting line-up and Camby started at center.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix1016,0,961495.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

Kurt's skills are in short supply

BY GREG LOGAN
STAFF CORRESPONDENT

October 16, 2004

GREENBURGH, N.Y. -- He's been in New York for six seasons, but every time Knicks power forward Kurt Thomas picks up a newspaper, he's being shipped out to all points of the NBA compass courtesy of the trade rumor mill. The latest has him going to Minnesota for small forward Wally Szczerbiak in a big-for-small deal that makes little sense.

Over the summer, Thomas was headed variously to Golden State for Erick Dampier, Toronto for Vince Carter and Dallas for Antoine Walker. Just before the trade deadline in February, there were reports of a deal sending him to San Antonio for Malik Rose, who will be at Madison Square Garden on Saturday afternoon for an exhibition game. On top of all that, Thomas has been battling to hold his starting job against Mike Sweetney.

But the Knicks' 92-84 victory over the Nets in their preseason opener Thursday night in Wilkes-Barre, Pa., provided yet another reminder of why the Knicks really can't afford to trade Thomas for anything short of an all-star big man. With Jamal Crawford and Stephon Marbury driving down the lane and drawing the defense, Thomas was able to pop open to make all seven of his jump shots, and for most of three quarters, he was practically the only Knick working hard on defense.

A game against the Spurs always serves to emphasize Thomas' value because he's the one charged with covering two-time MVP Tim Duncan. If there were an award for the most underappreciated Knick, Thomas would have retired it by now.

"I think a lot of people tend to overlook it, but everyone knows the important things I do out there on the floor," Thomas said Friday with his usual brevity.

Just a week ago, Thomas faulted himself for shooting poorly during the first week of training camp, but his ability to run the screen-and-roll and knock down midrange jump shots is sure to be more valuable than ever with the addition of Crawford, who demands defensive attention when he penetrates.

"I think we're going to mesh just fine," Thomas said of his chemistry with the guards. "I think I'm going to get even more [open shots], especially with Jamal Crawford and the way he can create his own shot and create shots for myself."

As exciting as the Knicks were on offense at times, poor shot selection and 24 turnovers allowed the Nets to turn a 13-point deficit into a 13-point lead near the end of the third, a poor quarter for the Knicks' first unit.

"We got into a lapse where we didn't seem to do anything right," Thomas said. "We made too many turnovers. New Jersey was able to get too many easy baskets.

"But our second unit came in there and pushed the ball [on offense] and played aggressive defense. They got us back in the game. The only way we're going to win is [if we are able] to stop guys. You're not going to be able to outscore teams night in and night out, so you definitely have to play defense."

Thomas can do that. He can hit the jumper, and he can rebound, too. Most of all, he provides a level of toughness that is in short supply on the Knicks. If that makes him the most valuable Knick in trade talks with other teams, Thomas has learned to live with it.

"I just do my job," Thomas said. "It doesn't bother me."

Notes & quotes: Shandon Anderson's status as an outcast was reinforced when he was benched for the exhibition opener, but coach Lenny Wilkens said he will get some playing time ... Duncan and Marbury both started for the U.S. Olympic team. "Tim Duncan is the best player I've ever played with," Marbury said. "He's just so efficient."

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