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Wolves Reject Knicks Deal
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toodarkmark
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10/13/2004  10:03 AM
"While Isiah Thomas is more than willing to wheel and deal with any team who will listen, he continues having a hard time finding new homes for Shandon Anderson, Kurt Thomas and Moochie Norris.

According to the New York Daily News and as reported elsewhere the Knicks have tried on several occasions to acquire Minnesota small forward Wally Szczerbiak.

The Timberwolves, however, have turned down the Knicks' offer of Thomas and backup point guard Moochie Norris, whom Thomas insisted Chicago take in the Jamal Crawford deal only a few months ago, causing the deal to linger and almost break down on multiple occasions."

That sucks. Who the hell is even going to want two out of these three players.
I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
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islesfan
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10/13/2004  10:10 AM
Seriously, it's too bad Isiah gave KT a ridiculous extension and traded for Norris in the first place. Spoon has more trade value than Norris does at this point.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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10/13/2004  10:18 AM
how do you figure Spoon has more value than Moochie? Moochie makes less money & is signed to 2 years just like Spoon.

i agree about KT's extension though...it's obvious that his supposed trade value went out the window after that happened.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Andrew
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10/13/2004  10:24 AM
Compared to the deals other players in the league have gotten KT extension is not that ridiculas. I'd say its on par with the pay for his skill level.
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islesfan
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10/13/2004  10:26 AM
All Norris is now is a potential salary dump toss in on any deal Isiah tries to make. How could Spoon have any less value?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Vmart
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10/13/2004  10:28 AM
I agree giving KT the money was a huge mistake which I think cost the Knicks a chance at getting Rasheed Wallace last year from Atlanta. Big mistake. I think finding a taker for Anderson and Moochie is going to be next to impossible.
MS
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10/13/2004  10:32 AM
Cost the Knicks Rasheed Wallace. That is the dumbest thing i have ever read, giving Kurt a fair extension, cost them, not really, Danny Ainge cost them Rasheed Wallace, there was no way he was ever coming to NY once he was traded to the Pistons...Isiah could have move Dice for Wallace straight, but he wanted Marbury. So thats how it goes, and then he would have still been able to get dampier and van exel if that is what ny wanted....but everyone believe Marbury is the savior...so thats where we are
Andrew
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10/13/2004  10:36 AM
Posted by MS:

Cost the Knicks Rasheed Wallace. That is the dumbest thing i have ever read, giving Kurt a fair extension, cost them, not really, Danny Ainge cost them Rasheed Wallace, there was no way he was ever coming to NY once he was traded to the Pistons.

I think VMart is referencing the expiring deal that KT would have been, and could have been used to aquire Sheed before he went to the Pistons. Not sure if that would have worked...but is was a possibility.
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Nalod
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10/13/2004  10:39 AM
First off KT deserved the raise and extension. We had no Idea at the time we would have Nazr, or Baker, or Sweets would rise. What if Sweets gets hurt? Or is foul prone?

Under those circumstances, Isiah did a good back up by keeping him.

What, we are dead cuz we don't have Wally? Really now, I think we will be ok.

ALso, see what Isiah is doing? KT is marketable, but he is trying to lop in Moochie or shandon and take on a bigger contract. Isiah is being greedy, prudent, and patient!

We don't have to trade KT, and lots of teams don't need to take on Moochie or Shandon. But if a starting PF goes down, the price will be there to pay. And that means taking one of our scrubs.

KT at 8 mil a year, compared to what Erik, Foyle and Booz, Okur are getting, is a bargain!

If I understand it this way, then I agree with Isiah. Wow, the Kool Aid works!

Bonn1997
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10/13/2004  10:54 AM
Posted by islesfan:

All Norris is now is a potential salary dump toss in on any deal Isiah tries to make. How could Spoon have any less value?
You're back Isles? Maybe you'll actually respond to the comments people directed toward you on this thread: http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=6051&page=2
Andrew
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10/13/2004  10:55 AM
Posted by Nalod:

First off KT deserved the raise and extension. We had no Idea at the time we would have Nazr, or Baker, or Sweets would rise. What if Sweets gets hurt? Or is foul prone?

...or god fobid...doesn't live up to the hype?
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TMS
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10/13/2004  11:07 AM
Posted by islesfan:

All Norris is now is a potential salary dump toss in on any deal Isiah tries to make. How could Spoon have any less value?

isles, so is Spoon at this point...& he makes more money...that's the point...there's no team out there that will want Spoon at what he's slotted to make for the next couple years for the production he'll bring.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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10/13/2004  11:28 AM
Kurt's a good role player signed to market value or possibly less. He's not a liability to this team by any means
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TMS
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10/13/2004  11:33 AM
he's definitely not a liability...but the extension he signed did diminish his trade value...i think that's fairly obvious.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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10/13/2004  11:58 AM
Posted by TMS:

he's definitely not a liability...but the extension he signed did diminish his trade value...i think that's fairly obvious.
I don't think the extension diminished his trade value; I think Isiah is just proposing lopsided offers by including Moochie and/or Shandon in the proposals.
newyorknewyork
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10/13/2004  12:00 PM
KT had to be resigned. He was going to be a FA either he resigned so we could use him in a trade down the road or another team signs him and we lose him for nothing. Even if he doesn't get traded he is our best low post player right now and he ran the pick and roll to perfection with Marbury before he injured his hand.
He is playoff battle tested as well.

At the deadline when a team needs some extra frontcourt help to do damage in the playoffs KTs value will be high again especially if he is having a solid season.

And Sheed wouldn't have wanted to come to NY if Marbury wasn't here. He saw Zeke come in and land Marbury so he felt NY was moving on up fast so Dice for Sheed wasn't gong to happen. ATL offerd Rahim & Ratliff for Sheed I think they gave up a draft pick as well or something which is way better than what we would have offerd.
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TMS
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10/13/2004  12:08 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:

he's definitely not a liability...but the extension he signed did diminish his trade value...i think that's fairly obvious.
I don't think the extension diminished his trade value; I think Isiah is just proposing lopsided offers by including Moochie and/or Shandon in the proposals.

in your view, what can KT get the Knicks straight up if Isiah were to try & trade him by himself?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
bernard
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10/13/2004  12:32 PM
Only problem w/ KT signing was trade kicker. His contract is more than reasonable compared to those for big men signed later ... in off season. If we could have got it done w/o the kicker, even at a slightly higher annual w/o the kicker, it would have been a better deal.
toodarkmark
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10/13/2004  12:37 PM
I think KThomas and Moochie might be able to fetch something in a while. I dont think Shandon can be traded, I wish we had swung Anderson for L Murray last year.

I think M Norris has more trade value than Spoon could have on this team. He would have been buried a la O Harrington. And like people said we could either keep Thomas or lose him for nothing. We didn't have the expiring contracts to get Wallace, even if KT's contract was involved. I think his was 5.2 and Wallace was 17.

I blame Scott Layden for K Thomas's contract. He gave more money and a longer deal to Weatherspoon, S Anderson and H Eisley without them playing one minute for the Knicks, and a shorter smaller contract to K Thomas which idiotically had a player option for 2004-05. What an IDIOT! To give those players longer more lucrative contracts while someone who had been producing for him got short changed? We will be paying for Layden's mistakes for at least another year or two.

I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
Bonn1997
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10/13/2004  2:07 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:

he's definitely not a liability...but the extension he signed did diminish his trade value...i think that's fairly obvious.
I don't think the extension diminished his trade value; I think Isiah is just proposing lopsided offers by including Moochie and/or Shandon in the proposals.

in your view, what can KT get the Knicks straight up if Isiah were to try & trade him by himself?
I have no idea since I haven't talked to other teams. I personally don't want to trade Kurt anyway. I'd rather have him come off the bench like he did on our 99 team that went to the finals. If we are going to trade him, his value will be higher if (a) Isiah doesn't insist on Moochie and/or Shandon being included in the deal and (b) Isiah is willing to wait until some team's PF gets injured and they need one.
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