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Assessing Mitch
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martin
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3/26/2019  1:20 PM


The Knicks’ Rookie Center Is A Statistical Enigma

Mitchell Robinson is considered elite by two performance metrics but merely blah by another.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-knicks-rookie-center-is-a-statistical-enigma/

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CrushAlot
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3/26/2019  1:32 PM
Pretty harsh assessment on Frank and Knox.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
BigDaddyG
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3/26/2019  1:32 PM
martin wrote:


The Knicks’ Rookie Center Is A Statistical Enigma

Mitchell Robinson is considered elite by two performance metrics but merely blah by another.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-knicks-rookie-center-is-a-statistical-enigma/


I've never given credence to ESPN'S RPM system. At the same time, I don't feel comfortable saying his rookie season ranks with notes Hall of Famer. Still, there is no doubt that Mitch is a great find. No doubt he gets picked top 6 in a re-draft if teams get a do-over.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Nalod
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3/26/2019  1:53 PM
Alvan Adams is often over looked! If you think outside shooting white bigs are new,
look up him, Jack Sikma and Dave Cowens. Two have rings also. Cowens was a beast.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
BigDaddyG
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3/26/2019  1:56 PM
Nalod wrote:Alvan Adams is often over looked! If you think outside shooting white bigs are new,
look up him, Jack Sikma and Dave Cowens. Two have rings also. Cowens was a beast.

I dunno, I always assumed outside shooting white bigs were a part of the game the moment Naismith nailed his first peach basket.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
jrodmc
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3/26/2019  4:03 PM
Rich Kelley! Who said one dimensional white bigs were always out of style? Where the hell is Chuck Nevitt on that list??
Bill Lamebeer! Shawn Bradley! Pat Cummings!

Doesn't anyone else find it a bit sacrilegious to compare a block and foul machine, who's averaging 2pts a game on one of the worst teams in NBA history with MJ?

Hope is a good thing. And nothing good ever dies, but it just may not make the playoffs.
jrodmc
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3/26/2019  4:05 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Pretty harsh assessment on Frank and Knox.

And what all the player evaluation systems agree on is that Frank Ntilikina (drafted eighth overall in 2017) and Kevin Knox (ninth, 2018) are terrible players. Knox (minus-.028 through Sunday, according to WS/48, is essentially tied in having the eighth-worst rookie season in the 3-point era, a year after Ntilikina waged what is now the 11th-worst (minus-.026) rookie campaign.

That is pretty brutal... Hey Uncle Nalod, tell your emotional mini-me to avoid this thread...

Hope is a good thing. And nothing good ever dies, but it just may not make the playoffs.
franco12
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3/27/2019  9:19 AM
jrodmc wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Pretty harsh assessment on Frank and Knox.

And what all the player evaluation systems agree on is that Frank Ntilikina (drafted eighth overall in 2017) and Kevin Knox (ninth, 2018) are terrible players. Knox (minus-.028 through Sunday, according to WS/48, is essentially tied in having the eighth-worst rookie season in the 3-point era, a year after Ntilikina waged what is now the 11th-worst (minus-.026) rookie campaign.

That is pretty brutal... Hey Uncle Nalod, tell your emotional mini-me to avoid this thread...

I missed that bit about Frank and Knox.

I guess Kevin is our very own Kenny 'Sky' Walker for the modern era - a big with an outside shot that doesn't translate who does nothing else well.

The only modicum of hope for both is they are still very young, and maybe somehow both can salvage careers that are arcing out of the league quickly.

Knixkik
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3/27/2019  12:24 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Pretty harsh assessment on Frank and Knox.

I see Knox really turning that around. He can easily become a 40% 3pt shooter. He is aggressive on offense and will learn. He can benefit from becoming a complimentary player instead of the first option he is now essentially. Frank i'm not sure about. He doesn't seem to want it. As for Mitch, he is a fascinating prospect who is becoming our most important young piece moving forward. I still think both he and Knox would be top 10 in a redraft. Knox isn't producing well, but anyone can see the tools are there.

SupremeCommander
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3/27/2019  1:11 PM
Knixkik wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Pretty harsh assessment on Frank and Knox.

I see Knox really turning that around. He can easily become a 40% 3pt shooter. He is aggressive on offense and will learn. He can benefit from becoming a complimentary player instead of the first option he is now essentially. Frank i'm not sure about. He doesn't seem to want it. As for Mitch, he is a fascinating prospect who is becoming our most important young piece moving forward. I still think both he and Knox would be top 10 in a redraft. Knox isn't producing well, but anyone can see the tools are there.

O RLY

I too think Knox will improve but man you want to bank on it to be EASY to be a 40% 3P shooter? 40% is the mark of excellence. Man I certainly screwed up my financial future by not becoming a 40% three point shot

Cartman718 said: Is Fiz going to write Zion on the board during the timeout
SupremeCommander
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3/27/2019  1:12 PM
As for Mitch, we are not there yet but I see absolutely no reason why he can't be Marcus Camby pt II
Cartman718 said: Is Fiz going to write Zion on the board during the timeout
Knixkik
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3/27/2019  2:15 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Pretty harsh assessment on Frank and Knox.

I see Knox really turning that around. He can easily become a 40% 3pt shooter. He is aggressive on offense and will learn. He can benefit from becoming a complimentary player instead of the first option he is now essentially. Frank i'm not sure about. He doesn't seem to want it. As for Mitch, he is a fascinating prospect who is becoming our most important young piece moving forward. I still think both he and Knox would be top 10 in a redraft. Knox isn't producing well, but anyone can see the tools are there.

O RLY

I too think Knox will improve but man you want to bank on it to be EASY to be a 40% 3P shooter? 40% is the mark of excellence. Man I certainly screwed up my financial future by not becoming a 40% three point shot

Well he's a 35% shooter as a rookie. He's been operating without an effective playmaker for most of the year, so his open shots are limited. Plus rookies tend to take a year to adjust to the 3pt line. Look at most great shooters. Their rookie years were mid-30s from 3, maybe worse. With his adjusting to the NBA line and working as more of a complimentary scorer in the future, he will get more open looks. I think a 5% jump should be pretty attainable.

ramtour420
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3/29/2019  8:56 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:As for Mitch, we are not there yet but I see absolutely no reason why he can't be Marcus Camby pt II a top 3 shot blocker in the NBA history since they have started keeping track of the stat.

There, fixed

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us and the world will be as one." -J.Lennon
smackeddog
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3/30/2019  4:24 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Pretty harsh assessment on Frank and Knox.

I see Knox really turning that around. He can easily become a 40% 3pt shooter. He is aggressive on offense and will learn. He can benefit from becoming a complimentary player instead of the first option he is now essentially. Frank i'm not sure about. He doesn't seem to want it. As for Mitch, he is a fascinating prospect who is becoming our most important young piece moving forward. I still think both he and Knox would be top 10 in a redraft. Knox isn't producing well, but anyone can see the tools are there.

O RLY

I too think Knox will improve but man you want to bank on it to be EASY to be a 40% 3P shooter? 40% is the mark of excellence. Man I certainly screwed up my financial future by not becoming a 40% three point shot

I think (and I could be wrong), knox's play from the rookie of the month, seemed to go down the toilet right around the time we stopped playing Kanter, so maybe he just needs other players who will command attention from the defense.

What worries me about Knox is that while you can see Mitch and Trier have developed and added things, Knox seems to be exactly the same as he was back in summer league- I can't point to one thing he does differently.

What gives me hope is that for one month he looked pretty good. Let's see what an offseason of work on his body and game does, along with playing alongside Irving and KD (hopefully!)

Vmart
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3/30/2019  10:28 AM
franco12 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Pretty harsh assessment on Frank and Knox.

And what all the player evaluation systems agree on is that Frank Ntilikina (drafted eighth overall in 2017) and Kevin Knox (ninth, 2018) are terrible players. Knox (minus-.028 through Sunday, according to WS/48, is essentially tied in having the eighth-worst rookie season in the 3-point era, a year after Ntilikina waged what is now the 11th-worst (minus-.026) rookie campaign.

That is pretty brutal... Hey Uncle Nalod, tell your emotional mini-me to avoid this thread...

I missed that bit about Frank and Knox.

I guess Kevin is our very own Kenny 'Sky' Walker for the modern era - a big with an outside shot that doesn't translate who does nothing else well.

The only modicum of hope for both is they are still very young, and maybe somehow both can salvage careers that are arcing out of the league quickly.

Kenny Sky Walker was brutal a 4 year college player. Knox look 10times better than Kenny Walker. Kenny couldn’t dribble to save his life much less hit a jumper from 15 feet out. One of the worst pick made by the Knicks franchise. Once Chuck Person was off the board the Knicks panicked and pick the worst player imaginable.

CrushAlot
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3/30/2019  12:58 PM
smackeddog wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Pretty harsh assessment on Frank and Knox.

I see Knox really turning that around. He can easily become a 40% 3pt shooter. He is aggressive on offense and will learn. He can benefit from becoming a complimentary player instead of the first option he is now essentially. Frank i'm not sure about. He doesn't seem to want it. As for Mitch, he is a fascinating prospect who is becoming our most important young piece moving forward. I still think both he and Knox would be top 10 in a redraft. Knox isn't producing well, but anyone can see the tools are there.

O RLY

I too think Knox will improve but man you want to bank on it to be EASY to be a 40% 3P shooter? 40% is the mark of excellence. Man I certainly screwed up my financial future by not becoming a 40% three point shot

I think (and I could be wrong), knox's play from the rookie of the month, seemed to go down the toilet right around the time we stopped playing Kanter, so maybe he just needs other players who will command attention from the defense.

What worries me about Knox is that while you can see Mitch and Trier have developed and added things, Knox seems to be exactly the same as he was back in summer league- I can't point to one thing he does differently.

What gives me hope is that for one month he looked pretty good. Let's see what an offseason of work on his body and game does, along with playing alongside Irving and KD (hopefully!)


That is a great observation about Kanter going to the bench and Knox’s decline. I am going to check out the numbers.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
ramtour420
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3/30/2019  7:01 PM
Mitch is having himself a season worthy of DPOY consideration. In his rookie season! WHAT? I am serious tho. Too bad one can only win that title on a winning team. The only thing keeping him out of ROTY is a lack of any go to moves on O. The aforementioned hook, The TD 10 foot bank shot, Marcus Camby's baseline jumper(no, hehe , just kiddin) In the last few games if he busts something like that out tho and makes a few. . .oh my. Lights out then
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us and the world will be as one." -J.Lennon
SupremeCommander
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3/30/2019  9:22 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:As for Mitch, we are not there yet but I see absolutely no reason why he can't be Marcus Camby pt II a top 3 shot blocker in the NBA history since they have started keeping track of the stat.

There, fixed

I'm not gonna go there but I won't argue with you

Cartman718 said: Is Fiz going to write Zion on the board during the timeout
SupremeCommander
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3/30/2019  9:47 PM
Knixkik wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Pretty harsh assessment on Frank and Knox.

I see Knox really turning that around. He can easily become a 40% 3pt shooter. He is aggressive on offense and will learn. He can benefit from becoming a complimentary player instead of the first option he is now essentially. Frank i'm not sure about. He doesn't seem to want it. As for Mitch, he is a fascinating prospect who is becoming our most important young piece moving forward. I still think both he and Knox would be top 10 in a redraft. Knox isn't producing well, but anyone can see the tools are there.

O RLY

I too think Knox will improve but man you want to bank on it to be EASY to be a 40% 3P shooter? 40% is the mark of excellence. Man I certainly screwed up my financial future by not becoming a 40% three point shot

Well he's a 35% shooter as a rookie. He's been operating without an effective playmaker for most of the year, so his open shots are limited. Plus rookies tend to take a year to adjust to the 3pt line. Look at most great shooters. Their rookie years were mid-30s from 3, maybe worse. With his adjusting to the NBA line and working as more of a complimentary scorer in the future, he will get more open looks. I think a 5% jump should be pretty attainable.

I hope you are right. I do. But I don't see him making any progress. He doesn't get ready buckets for himself. He doesn't offer anything at an above average level. He provides nothing other than below average overall shooting

Cartman718 said: Is Fiz going to write Zion on the board during the timeout
Knixkik
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3/31/2019  9:45 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Pretty harsh assessment on Frank and Knox.

I see Knox really turning that around. He can easily become a 40% 3pt shooter. He is aggressive on offense and will learn. He can benefit from becoming a complimentary player instead of the first option he is now essentially. Frank i'm not sure about. He doesn't seem to want it. As for Mitch, he is a fascinating prospect who is becoming our most important young piece moving forward. I still think both he and Knox would be top 10 in a redraft. Knox isn't producing well, but anyone can see the tools are there.

O RLY

I too think Knox will improve but man you want to bank on it to be EASY to be a 40% 3P shooter? 40% is the mark of excellence. Man I certainly screwed up my financial future by not becoming a 40% three point shot

Well he's a 35% shooter as a rookie. He's been operating without an effective playmaker for most of the year, so his open shots are limited. Plus rookies tend to take a year to adjust to the 3pt line. Look at most great shooters. Their rookie years were mid-30s from 3, maybe worse. With his adjusting to the NBA line and working as more of a complimentary scorer in the future, he will get more open looks. I think a 5% jump should be pretty attainable.

I hope you are right. I do. But I don't see him making any progress. He doesn't get ready buckets for himself. He doesn't offer anything at an above average level. He provides nothing other than below average overall shooting

I'm just thinking that if he were in more of a Jason Tatum role you would see him shooting numbers much higher. Tatum is a better defender, but i don't see a huge difference in terms of offensive talent. Knox would be a 43% FG and 38% 3pt right now in an offense with better players around him.

Assessing Mitch

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