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Fiz, Mudiay will eventually get a chance to start at point guard
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meloshouldgo
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10/29/2018  12:49 PM
Vmart wrote:Not a fan of anyone getting a shot at pg. It’s Franks and no one should interfere with his development.

Based on what I have seen from Mudiay, I have to agree. The more we experiment the less these guys develop into their roles. But I also think everyone deserves a shot. So not really sure how I feel about this overall.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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Nalod
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10/29/2018  12:55 PM
Teams have to also have a reputation for holding up to their word.
IF a team gives you parameters/goals and you meet them you get a chance. If Team set a goal of fitness and weight in addition to working at the team facility and he met them all then he gets a chance. Baker got his.
Burke made good on his and got rewarded last season. Mudiay was traded here but still it applies.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Uptown
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10/29/2018  1:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/29/2018  1:22 PM
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Uptown wrote:Say what you want about Mudiay, but he has the best pg instincts on the team....he is the best passer out of the pg spot and he actually plays north and south. His problem is he has trouble finishing in traffic and his jumper is inconsistent. He's a better player than Baker and he deserves minutes over him at the very least.

100% agree

He is by far the best pure pg we have, he just has confidence issues and real ugly jump shot. But his vision and reaction are better than Both Frank and Bukre

he's the best at outlet passes for fast breaks, but home run plays won't work against a good D. those passes still have value though.

his D is average and the shooting is bad right now.
i am really pulling for this kid to get it together. he definitely came to camp in shape. and he uses his bulk on D opposed to length, which is fine.

but if opposing players are covering his teammates...i doubt he can run a fast break.

Nah, more than that. He actually gets into the paint, draws the defender and dishes off for an easy basket...No other pg on our roster does that! Trey will do it occasionally, but mainly on pick and rolls...Mudiay is also a decent rebounder and has great size. If only he can learn to finish through contact at the basket...Also, his jumper is broken.

Knickoftime
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10/29/2018  1:36 PM
Uptown wrote: If only he can learn to finish through contact at the basket...Also, his jumper is broken.

I don't think the former is a teachable skill, at least at this point.

BigDaddyG
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10/29/2018  1:42 PM
Uptown wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Uptown wrote:Say what you want about Mudiay, but he has the best pg instincts on the team....he is the best passer out of the pg spot and he actually plays north and south. His problem is he has trouble finishing in traffic and his jumper is inconsistent. He's a better player than Baker and he deserves minutes over him at the very least.

100% agree

He is by far the best pure pg we have, he just has confidence issues and real ugly jump shot. But his vision and reaction are better than Both Frank and Bukre

he's the best at outlet passes for fast breaks, but home run plays won't work against a good D. those passes still have value though.

his D is average and the shooting is bad right now.
i am really pulling for this kid to get it together. he definitely came to camp in shape. and he uses his bulk on D opposed to length, which is fine.

but if opposing players are covering his teammates...i doubt he can run a fast break.

Nah, more than that. He actually gets into the paint, draws the defender and dishes off for an easy basket...No other pg on our roster does that! Trey will do it occasionally, but mainly on pick and rolls...Mudiay is also a decent rebounder and has great size. If only he can learn to finish through contact at the basket...Also, his jumper is broken.


He also has a habit of making bad passes on his penetration too. He seemed to calm down a bit in preseason, so it's possible that he's matured in that aspect. I have no problem with him playing and starting if he earns it. That's what this season is for. I'm just not expecting a lot. Time will tell.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Vmart
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10/29/2018  1:57 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Vmart wrote:Not a fan of anyone getting a shot at pg. It’s Franks and no one should interfere with his development.

Based on what I have seen from Mudiay, I have to agree. The more we experiment the less these guys develop into their roles. But I also think everyone deserves a shot. So not really sure how I feel about this overall.

This how you also destroy careers that are promising all in the name of chance. Mudiay got his shot when he was in Denver. It didn’t happen for him then and it 99% won’t happen for him here. Now is Fizz willing to lose Frank for this so called chance for Mudiay. Absolutely would be a dumb move by Fizz.

You got your best player on the floor playing his position already why f around for shyts and giggles.

Uptown
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10/29/2018  1:59 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
Uptown wrote: If only he can learn to finish through contact at the basket...Also, his jumper is broken.

I don't think the former is a teachable skill, at least at this point.

Not necessarily...Mudiay is still 22 years old without any college coaching or experience...

Uptown
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10/29/2018  2:00 PM
Vmart wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Vmart wrote:Not a fan of anyone getting a shot at pg. It’s Franks and no one should interfere with his development.

Based on what I have seen from Mudiay, I have to agree. The more we experiment the less these guys develop into their roles. But I also think everyone deserves a shot. So not really sure how I feel about this overall.

This how you also destroy careers that are promising all in the name of chance. Mudiay got his shot when he was in Denver. It didn’t happen for him then and it 99% won’t happen for him here. Now is Fizz willing to lose Frank for this so called chance for Mudiay. Absolutely would be a dumb move by Fizz.

You got your best player on the floor playing his position already why f around for shyts and giggles.

So, we've never seen young players struggle early in the career, get moved to the right situation and then flourish? I can name a handful off top....

HofstraBBall
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10/29/2018  2:04 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
Uptown wrote: If only he can learn to finish through contact at the basket...Also, his jumper is broken.

I don't think the former is a teachable skill, at least at this point.

Think that he can improve his jump shot. It is definitely teachable? Probably the thing most NBA players look to improve most and do each year. Kid is only 22. Some forget that.

Vmart
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10/29/2018  2:14 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/29/2018  2:16 PM
Uptown wrote:
Vmart wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Vmart wrote:Not a fan of anyone getting a shot at pg. It’s Franks and no one should interfere with his development.

Based on what I have seen from Mudiay, I have to agree. The more we experiment the less these guys develop into their roles. But I also think everyone deserves a shot. So not really sure how I feel about this overall.

This how you also destroy careers that are promising all in the name of chance. Mudiay got his shot when he was in Denver. It didn’t happen for him then and it 99% won’t happen for him here. Now is Fizz willing to lose Frank for this so called chance for Mudiay. Absolutely would be a dumb move by Fizz.

You got your best player on the floor playing his position already why f around for shyts and giggles.

So, we've never seen young players struggle early in the career, get moved to the right situation and then flourish? I can name a handful off top....

At what point do these guys become vets here. Mudiay is at a point where he is a young vet. Just like Burk you know he isn’t starting material in the NBA. Mudiay has reached that point too. You got to make a strong base for the players and jerking them around only weakens them. The great ones get to go at it from the beginning and make the mistakes and get it out of their system. Mudiay got that chance and now he is what he is. Burk got that chance and he is what he is. If anything Frank isn’t being given the chance that Mudiay and Burk blew. At what point do you say he is a role player nothing more. Reality has to set in sometimes, and Mudiay chances should have run out. Hurt my boy Frank ain’t the way to go. Fizz should also know that Frank is the better passer and decision maker.

knicks1248
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10/29/2018  2:16 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Uptown wrote: If only he can learn to finish through contact at the basket...Also, his jumper is broken.

I don't think the former is a teachable skill, at least at this point.

Think that he can improve his jump shot. It is definitely teachable? Probably the thing most NBA players look to improve most and do each year. Kid is only 22. Some forget that.


His shooting form is "Camby/kevin martin like ugly, but it really doesn't matter the form, it's the release that matters the most. His release is different every time he shoots. Frank and THJ suffer the same problem, there timing on releasing shots are extremely different, it's either to hard or to soft depending on where they shoot from. They both a have beautiful shooting forms, but they rush there shots too much.

ES
Vmart
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10/29/2018  2:18 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Uptown wrote: If only he can learn to finish through contact at the basket...Also, his jumper is broken.

I don't think the former is a teachable skill, at least at this point.

Think that he can improve his jump shot. It is definitely teachable? Probably the thing most NBA players look to improve most and do each year. Kid is only 22. Some forget that.


His shooting form is "Camby/kevin martin like ugly, but it really doesn't matter the form, it's the release that matters the most. His release is different every time he shoots. Frank and THJ suffer the same problem, there timing on releasing shots are extremely different, it's either to hard or to soft depending on where they shoot from. They both a have beautiful shooting forms, but they rush there shots too much.

Harping in age suck he is only 22 all the grabage. He is a 4 year vet now. Age doesn’t mean talent.

Knickoftime
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10/29/2018  2:19 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Uptown wrote: If only he can learn to finish through contact at the basket...Also, his jumper is broken.

I don't think the former is a teachable skill, at least at this point.

Think that he can improve his jump shot. It is definitely teachable? Probably the thing most NBA players look to improve most and do each year. Kid is only 22. Some forget that.

I understand jump shots can be improved. I am bearish though on rewriting broke-ass jump shots.

knicks1248
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10/29/2018  2:27 PM
Vmart wrote:
Uptown wrote:
Vmart wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Vmart wrote:Not a fan of anyone getting a shot at pg. It’s Franks and no one should interfere with his development.

Based on what I have seen from Mudiay, I have to agree. The more we experiment the less these guys develop into their roles. But I also think everyone deserves a shot. So not really sure how I feel about this overall.

This how you also destroy careers that are promising all in the name of chance. Mudiay got his shot when he was in Denver. It didn’t happen for him then and it 99% won’t happen for him here. Now is Fizz willing to lose Frank for this so called chance for Mudiay. Absolutely would be a dumb move by Fizz.

You got your best player on the floor playing his position already why f around for shyts and giggles.

So, we've never seen young players struggle early in the career, get moved to the right situation and then flourish? I can name a handful off top....

At what point do these guys become vets here. Mudiay is at a point where he is a young vet. Just like Burk you know he isn’t starting material in the NBA. Mudiay has reached that point too. You got to make a strong base for the players and jerking them around only weakens them. The great ones get to go at it from the beginning and make the mistakes and get it out of their system. Mudiay got that chance and now he is what he is. Burk got that chance and he is what he is. If anything Frank isn’t being given the chance that Mudiay and Burk blew. At what point do you say he is a role player nothing more. Reality has to set in sometimes, and Mudiay chances should have run out. Hurt my boy Frank ain’t the way to go. Fizz should also know that Frank is the better passer and decision maker.

Houston gave up on Lowery after 4 yrs, and look how he turned out, Olapido, Jermaine O neal, these players languish for yrs as potential bust until they got in the right system and right frame of mind.

Frank, Burke and Mudiay all lack something needed to be an ideal pg. so you have to use these guys accordingly

ES
Knickoftime
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10/29/2018  2:30 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Uptown wrote:
Vmart wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Vmart wrote:Not a fan of anyone getting a shot at pg. It’s Franks and no one should interfere with his development.

Based on what I have seen from Mudiay, I have to agree. The more we experiment the less these guys develop into their roles. But I also think everyone deserves a shot. So not really sure how I feel about this overall.

This how you also destroy careers that are promising all in the name of chance. Mudiay got his shot when he was in Denver. It didn’t happen for him then and it 99% won’t happen for him here. Now is Fizz willing to lose Frank for this so called chance for Mudiay. Absolutely would be a dumb move by Fizz.

You got your best player on the floor playing his position already why f around for shyts and giggles.

So, we've never seen young players struggle early in the career, get moved to the right situation and then flourish? I can name a handful off top....

At what point do these guys become vets here. Mudiay is at a point where he is a young vet. Just like Burk you know he isn’t starting material in the NBA. Mudiay has reached that point too. You got to make a strong base for the players and jerking them around only weakens them. The great ones get to go at it from the beginning and make the mistakes and get it out of their system. Mudiay got that chance and now he is what he is. Burk got that chance and he is what he is. If anything Frank isn’t being given the chance that Mudiay and Burk blew. At what point do you say he is a role player nothing more. Reality has to set in sometimes, and Mudiay chances should have run out. Hurt my boy Frank ain’t the way to go. Fizz should also know that Frank is the better passer and decision maker.

Houston gave up on Lowery after 4 yrs, and look how he turned out, Olapido, Jermaine O neal, these players languish for yrs as potential bust until they got in the right system and right frame of mind.

Frank, Burke and Mudiay all lack something needed to be an ideal pg. so you have to use these guys accordingly

You don't always need an "ideal" PG.

Of those three players, I see different skills sets yes, but I also see more and less skill sets.

BigDaddyG
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10/29/2018  2:35 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Uptown wrote:
Vmart wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Vmart wrote:Not a fan of anyone getting a shot at pg. It’s Franks and no one should interfere with his development.

Based on what I have seen from Mudiay, I have to agree. The more we experiment the less these guys develop into their roles. But I also think everyone deserves a shot. So not really sure how I feel about this overall.

This how you also destroy careers that are promising all in the name of chance. Mudiay got his shot when he was in Denver. It didn’t happen for him then and it 99% won’t happen for him here. Now is Fizz willing to lose Frank for this so called chance for Mudiay. Absolutely would be a dumb move by Fizz.

You got your best player on the floor playing his position already why f around for shyts and giggles.

So, we've never seen young players struggle early in the career, get moved to the right situation and then flourish? I can name a handful off top....

At what point do these guys become vets here. Mudiay is at a point where he is a young vet. Just like Burk you know he isn’t starting material in the NBA. Mudiay has reached that point too. You got to make a strong base for the players and jerking them around only weakens them. The great ones get to go at it from the beginning and make the mistakes and get it out of their system. Mudiay got that chance and now he is what he is. Burk got that chance and he is what he is. If anything Frank isn’t being given the chance that Mudiay and Burk blew. At what point do you say he is a role player nothing more. Reality has to set in sometimes, and Mudiay chances should have run out. Hurt my boy Frank ain’t the way to go. Fizz should also know that Frank is the better passer and decision maker.

Houston gave up on Lowery after 4 yrs, and look how he turned out, Olapido, Jermaine O neal, these players languish for yrs as potential bust until they got in the right system and right frame of mind.

Frank, Burke and Mudiay all lack something needed to be an ideal pg. so you have to use these guys accordingly


The difference is that Lowry was actually good at every other stop prior to the Raptors. No one expected him to be an All-Star, but it wasn't inconceivable that he could become a starter. I don't think anyone thought O'Neal was a bust. He was just one of the few trade chips the Blazers had on a team that was going all in. Mudiay has been Mudiay where ever he's been. I anxious to see how much he's inproved in the off-season, tho. And, to be fair, he did get his three-point percentage up to league average before he was traded. We'll just have to wait and see. No one can say anything if he forces his way into the starting lineup.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
newyorknewyork
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10/29/2018  2:43 PM
Bad timing after Franks strong game from his first start. But it's up to Frank to force Fizz to keep him there if thats his preference.
knicks1248
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10/29/2018  2:57 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Uptown wrote:
Vmart wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Vmart wrote:Not a fan of anyone getting a shot at pg. It’s Franks and no one should interfere with his development.

Based on what I have seen from Mudiay, I have to agree. The more we experiment the less these guys develop into their roles. But I also think everyone deserves a shot. So not really sure how I feel about this overall.

This how you also destroy careers that are promising all in the name of chance. Mudiay got his shot when he was in Denver. It didn’t happen for him then and it 99% won’t happen for him here. Now is Fizz willing to lose Frank for this so called chance for Mudiay. Absolutely would be a dumb move by Fizz.

You got your best player on the floor playing his position already why f around for shyts and giggles.

So, we've never seen young players struggle early in the career, get moved to the right situation and then flourish? I can name a handful off top....

At what point do these guys become vets here. Mudiay is at a point where he is a young vet. Just like Burk you know he isn’t starting material in the NBA. Mudiay has reached that point too. You got to make a strong base for the players and jerking them around only weakens them. The great ones get to go at it from the beginning and make the mistakes and get it out of their system. Mudiay got that chance and now he is what he is. Burk got that chance and he is what he is. If anything Frank isn’t being given the chance that Mudiay and Burk blew. At what point do you say he is a role player nothing more. Reality has to set in sometimes, and Mudiay chances should have run out. Hurt my boy Frank ain’t the way to go. Fizz should also know that Frank is the better passer and decision maker.

Houston gave up on Lowery after 4 yrs, and look how he turned out, Olapido, Jermaine O neal, these players languish for yrs as potential bust until they got in the right system and right frame of mind.

Frank, Burke and Mudiay all lack something needed to be an ideal pg. so you have to use these guys accordingly


The difference is that Lowry was actually good at every other stop prior to the Raptors. No one expected him to be an All-Star, but it wasn't inconceivable that he could become a starter. I don't think anyone thought O'Neal was a bust. He was just one of the few trade chips the Blazers had on a team that was going all in. Mudiay has been Mudiay where ever he's been. I anxious to see how much he's inproved in the off-season, tho. And, to be fair, he did get his three-point percentage up to league average before he was traded. We'll just have to wait and see. No one can say anything if he forces his way into the starting lineup.

Exactly, but fiz has to start thinking about getting a consistent rotation as well, and not just use this season as a 82 game practice session.

ES
Knickoftime
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10/29/2018  3:13 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Uptown wrote:
Vmart wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Vmart wrote:Not a fan of anyone getting a shot at pg. It’s Franks and no one should interfere with his development.

Based on what I have seen from Mudiay, I have to agree. The more we experiment the less these guys develop into their roles. But I also think everyone deserves a shot. So not really sure how I feel about this overall.

This how you also destroy careers that are promising all in the name of chance. Mudiay got his shot when he was in Denver. It didn’t happen for him then and it 99% won’t happen for him here. Now is Fizz willing to lose Frank for this so called chance for Mudiay. Absolutely would be a dumb move by Fizz.

You got your best player on the floor playing his position already why f around for shyts and giggles.

So, we've never seen young players struggle early in the career, get moved to the right situation and then flourish? I can name a handful off top....

At what point do these guys become vets here. Mudiay is at a point where he is a young vet. Just like Burk you know he isn’t starting material in the NBA. Mudiay has reached that point too. You got to make a strong base for the players and jerking them around only weakens them. The great ones get to go at it from the beginning and make the mistakes and get it out of their system. Mudiay got that chance and now he is what he is. Burk got that chance and he is what he is. If anything Frank isn’t being given the chance that Mudiay and Burk blew. At what point do you say he is a role player nothing more. Reality has to set in sometimes, and Mudiay chances should have run out. Hurt my boy Frank ain’t the way to go. Fizz should also know that Frank is the better passer and decision maker.

Houston gave up on Lowery after 4 yrs, and look how he turned out, Olapido, Jermaine O neal, these players languish for yrs as potential bust until they got in the right system and right frame of mind.

Frank, Burke and Mudiay all lack something needed to be an ideal pg. so you have to use these guys accordingly


The difference is that Lowry was actually good at every other stop prior to the Raptors. No one expected him to be an All-Star, but it wasn't inconceivable that he could become a starter. I don't think anyone thought O'Neal was a bust. He was just one of the few trade chips the Blazers had on a team that was going all in. Mudiay has been Mudiay where ever he's been. I anxious to see how much he's inproved in the off-season, tho. And, to be fair, he did get his three-point percentage up to league average before he was traded. We'll just have to wait and see. No one can say anything if he forces his way into the starting lineup.

Exactly, but fiz has to start thinking about getting a consistent rotation as well, and not just use this season as a 82 game practice session.

This statement and my follow-up question would probably be more appropriate in say, December, when the season is more than a few games old.

But just for the heck of it...

Why?

HofstraBBall
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10/29/2018  3:33 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/29/2018  3:46 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Uptown wrote: If only he can learn to finish through contact at the basket...Also, his jumper is broken.

I don't think the former is a teachable skill, at least at this point.

Think that he can improve his jump shot. It is definitely teachable? Probably the thing most NBA players look to improve most and do each year. Kid is only 22. Some forget that.

I understand jump shots can be improved. I am bearish though on rewriting broke-ass jump shots.

As a phenomenal shooter , I think the single most important factor in shooting is not technique but confidence. Something that cannot be taught but can improve with repetition and success. If you look at some of the better shooters in the league, their technique varies and some even are unorthodox. But something that all good shooters have in a tremendous amount of confidence.

Fiz, Mudiay will eventually get a chance to start at point guard

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