knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Fiz needs to give Frank the green light to shoot whenever he gets the ball like with Knox. Do that and he'll be fine

I think he has it.

Of course he has, frank said it himself, "the coach wants me to more aggressive"

Some of you keep saying he's getting better, but his numbers from his first 3 games last yr are slightly better, he actually took more shots and played less minutes, shot a higher percentage. As of today he is shooting 34%, 27% on 3's and has still not taking a FT..

That is considered a major liability on offense

gotta be a little fair its only 3 games. Plus of course you dont mention the net game where his offense got us back in the game in the 3rd quarter. Fiz admitted he put the ball in his hands which he needs to do more

his lack off offense is what put us behind

I would take trae youngs (same age as frank) 35 pts and 11 ast over franks decent defense,5 points and 2 steals.

If Dotson comes in and does his thing along with trier, eventually you,re going to have to reduce franks minutes.

Fiz is all about earning your role. You need to stopped with giving him excuse for his horrible offense just like you don't give morio excuses for being a suspect defender

Its fair criticism from 1248, if its to counter the notion that Frank is guaranteed to become more than a role player. Unfair, if its a criticism of Frank as a role player.

As a role player he does a lot of things well. I dont see anything certain as far as Frank's ceiling, either way. Maybe thats why Frank can be frustrating to watch at times. Shows glimpses during games.

As I said in the gamethread, in the NBA, you have to want to be the man to play PG, I dont see that yet from Frank. Usually thats there already.

Still very early, Im sure 1248 would agree the Frank has plenty of time this season to become better at sustaining a certain level of aggression, offensively. Does that and he's at least a borderline all-star, depending on how much he improves.

The league average for scoring last year was about 106 according to bballreference.com. We're averaging a shade under 111, which is good for 9th, I know, only three games. And I realize Frank has to score more. He's showing aggressiveness and I'm encouraged. But to single Frank out as the reason we lost during a period when the entire team was cold seems a bit much. We're clearly scoring enough. We lost those last two games for a number of reasons. Knicks1248 seems to neglect, or just doesn't want to see the one where our overpaid starting SG failed to get key defensive stops at the end of games 2X in row.

This is the bull sht finger pointing I'm talking about, THJ has been carrying the offensive load for lance and frank, and you point out his one play he didn't get a stop on a really good player.

If frank was so good defensively, how come the coach didn't give him that assignment.

It's so stupid to think a die hard knick fan is not pulling for his players. It's frustrating to see a player with his potential, his length, and his abilities not take advantage of it.

The only way your going to get frank to play more aggressive is to take away his minutes if he doesn't, just like you take away minutes from a player who's not defending.

Now if he was getting 4 blocks, 4 steals, 5 deflections, redirecting shots, 7 assist, I wouldn't care if he every shot the ball because his defense is compensating.

knicks1248 wrote:

his lack off offense is what put us behind

Simply not true. The entire unit was cold, but you wanted to single out Frank for some reason. But you failed to mention Burke's mediocre play and THJ's slack defense. It wasn't play that THJ didn't get the stop. I'm just highlighting the plays that cost us two games.Yes, Frank needs to improve. But he isn't the sole reason we lost. You harp on our offense, even though we're scoring at decent clip. Just face it, you have Sith level hate when it comes to Frank.

The league avg in scoring was around 106 last season, the pelicans are avg 140 points in their first 2 games, they scored 149 in a regulation game.

Scoring in the NBA is through the roof. We are avg 110 points (which would have been tops last season) this season that's good for 17th (below avg)

The defense will keep you in some games, but lets be honest dude, teams are putting 4 to 5 players on the floor that can knock down threes, hit FT's(the ticky tack fouls are way up) and everyone is playing just as fast as us.

Speed is not the answer all the time. Lakers are #1 in possessions per game. Have they won a game? Speed + Control is the answer. and that control sometimes comes from slowing it down and sometimes comes from D

I just looked up these stats and here is a couple of things: We're 5th in points scored per game and 29th in points given up. We're 10th in pace. As I've stated before, I don't think scoring has been our biggest issue. These number are from basketball reference and NBA.com.

Couple of facts.
In the Brooklyn game Frank was a minus 22. Not the whole unit.
Pointing out that Frank is not good offensively, is not only true but agreed upon by most.
The league average thus far is 112.96. We are below the league average.
We are above league average in Team defense.

Season League(s) G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS

2014-15 LNB Pro A 3 8.0 0.7 2.0 .333 0.3 0.7 .500 0.3 1.3 .250 0.3 0.7 .500 0.0 0.3 0.3 1.0 0.0 0.0 0.7 1.0 2.0

2015-16 EuroCup, EuroLeague, LNB Pro A 35 8.0 0.5 1.6 .339 0.1 0.4 .286 0.4 1.2 .357 0.2 0.3 .727 0.3 0.3 0.6 0.6 0.2 0.1 0.3 1.2 1.4

2016-17 LNB Pro A 32 18.3 2.0 4.1 .485 0.7 1.6 .431 1.3 2.5 .519 0.6 0.9 .621 0.8 1.3 2.1 1.4 0.8 0.2 0.9 2.3 5.2
70 12.7 1.2 2.7 .438 0.4 1.0 .403 0.8 1.8 .456 0.4 0.6 .643 0.6 0.7 1.3 1.0 0.4 0.1 0.6 1.7 3.2
Totals

The kid averaged 3.2 points on 4 shot attempts his last season over sea

If he was in the NCAA, he would have never been drafted..

In 2014? He was only 16. Euro leagues also don't play their young players because they bring them in so early. They just want their rights from an early age. But yes, think everyone agrees he does not shoot much.

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

JesseDark wrote:Looking at the player stats I noticed that Frank has not been to the line yet this season. It's only four games but it's something needs to be corrected.

If you go back to the end of last season(failed to take a ft in the last 9 games playing 30 min per), this would be his 13th straight game without a FTA...

Every time he got the ball against the bucks in the 2nd half, he never even looked at the rim, he was more like "somebody please come take this ball from me" . I don't think I have ever seen a NBA player more passive

Wow. That is a real concern. Also, he and Lance have not rebounded the ball well. At the forward spots for 30 minutes you should be able to grab at least 5 rebounds. Our two starting forwards are averaging just under 5 boards a game.

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:So now Knicks1248 but brings up stats from Frank when he was 16 playing with older guys in europe to "prove" Frank shouldnt even of been drafted lol. Trying to decide if its more agenda driven or just pure idiocy.

Yes, hard to consider those stats at that age. Think Franks draft selection is a fair question. But like i have said before, many draft picks are shots in the dark. So that is nothing new. Not a secret I liked Smith, Mitchell and Monk over Frank. So not exactly batting 1000. Btw, think it was Gaines who recommended Frank? Same guy that recommended KP. Who btw was also a gamble at the time. I like when teams just pick the best available regardless of need of playing style. Cuz those always change. As my football Giants usually do. So But like I said, its kinda hard to judge who will pan out. Specially nowadays in the NBA. As most guys only play one year in college. Would like to see players stay in college all four years. Would also like to see schools be forced to pay these kids. As it is the main reason they leave so early.

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Fiz needs to give Frank the green light to shoot whenever he gets the ball like with Knox. Do that and he'll be fine

I think he has it.

Of course he has, frank said it himself, "the coach wants me to more aggressive"

Some of you keep saying he's getting better, but his numbers from his first 3 games last yr are slightly better, he actually took more shots and played less minutes, shot a higher percentage. As of today he is shooting 34%, 27% on 3's and has still not taking a FT..

That is considered a major liability on offense

gotta be a little fair its only 3 games. Plus of course you dont mention the net game where his offense got us back in the game in the 3rd quarter. Fiz admitted he put the ball in his hands which he needs to do more

his lack off offense is what put us behind

I would take trae youngs (same age as frank) 35 pts and 11 ast over franks decent defense,5 points and 2 steals.

If Dotson comes in and does his thing along with trier, eventually you,re going to have to reduce franks minutes.

Fiz is all about earning your role. You need to stopped with giving him excuse for his horrible offense just like you don't give morio excuses for being a suspect defender

Its fair criticism from 1248, if its to counter the notion that Frank is guaranteed to become more than a role player. Unfair, if its a criticism of Frank as a role player.

As a role player he does a lot of things well. I dont see anything certain as far as Frank's ceiling, either way. Maybe thats why Frank can be frustrating to watch at times. Shows glimpses during games.

As I said in the gamethread, in the NBA, you have to want to be the man to play PG, I dont see that yet from Frank. Usually thats there already.

Still very early, Im sure 1248 would agree the Frank has plenty of time this season to become better at sustaining a certain level of aggression, offensively. Does that and he's at least a borderline all-star, depending on how much he improves.

The league average for scoring last year was about 106 according to bballreference.com. We're averaging a shade under 111, which is good for 9th, I know, only three games. And I realize Frank has to score more. He's showing aggressiveness and I'm encouraged. But to single Frank out as the reason we lost during a period when the entire team was cold seems a bit much. We're clearly scoring enough. We lost those last two games for a number of reasons. Knicks1248 seems to neglect, or just doesn't want to see the one where our overpaid starting SG failed to get key defensive stops at the end of games 2X in row.

This is the bull sht finger pointing I'm talking about, THJ has been carrying the offensive load for lance and frank, and you point out his one play he didn't get a stop on a really good player.

If frank was so good defensively, how come the coach didn't give him that assignment.

It's so stupid to think a die hard knick fan is not pulling for his players. It's frustrating to see a player with his potential, his length, and his abilities not take advantage of it.

The only way your going to get frank to play more aggressive is to take away his minutes if he doesn't, just like you take away minutes from a player who's not defending.

Now if he was getting 4 blocks, 4 steals, 5 deflections, redirecting shots, 7 assist, I wouldn't care if he every shot the ball because his defense is compensating.

knicks1248 wrote:

his lack off offense is what put us behind

Simply not true. The entire unit was cold, but you wanted to single out Frank for some reason. But you failed to mention Burke's mediocre play and THJ's slack defense. It wasn't play that THJ didn't get the stop. I'm just highlighting the plays that cost us two games.Yes, Frank needs to improve. But he isn't the sole reason we lost. You harp on our offense, even though we're scoring at decent clip. Just face it, you have Sith level hate when it comes to Frank.

The league avg in scoring was around 106 last season, the pelicans are avg 140 points in their first 2 games, they scored 149 in a regulation game.

Scoring in the NBA is through the roof. We are avg 110 points (which would have been tops last season) this season that's good for 17th (below avg)

The defense will keep you in some games, but lets be honest dude, teams are putting 4 to 5 players on the floor that can knock down threes, hit FT's(the ticky tack fouls are way up) and everyone is playing just as fast as us.

Speed is not the answer all the time. Lakers are #1 in possessions per game. Have they won a game? Speed + Control is the answer. and that control sometimes comes from slowing it down and sometimes comes from D

I just looked up these stats and here is a couple of things: We're 5th in points scored per game and 29th in points given up. We're 10th in pace. As I've stated before, I don't think scoring has been our biggest issue. These number are from basketball reference and NBA.com.

Couple of facts.
In the Brooklyn game Frank was a minus 22. Not the whole unit.
Pointing out that Frank is not good offensively, is not only true but agreed upon by most.
The league average thus far is 112.96. We are below the league average.
We are above league average in Team defense.

The point isn't whether or not Frank needs to improve his offense. I think everyone has stated this as fact. The point is we have a bad team with a cargo load full of deficiencies and it's ridiculous to single out Frank as the reason. What about Tim and Burke's D? What about Kanter's D? What about coaches end of the game strategy the past two games? The list goes on. We've played four games and it too early to go off on this team, especially in what is supposed to be a rebuilding year. I get it, some fans don't like Frank. I liked Miles Bridges over Knox, although I'm happy with Knox. Am I supposed to go "I told you so" everytime Bridges makes a highlight dunk?

StarksEwing1 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:So now Knicks1248 but brings up stats from Frank when he was 16 playing with older guys in europe to "prove" Frank shouldnt even of been drafted lol. Trying to decide if its more agenda driven or just pure idiocy.

Yes, hard to consider those stats at that age. Think Franks draft selection is a fair question. But like i have said before, many draft picks are shots in the dark. So that is nothing new. Not a secret I liked Smith, Mitchell and Monk over Frank. So not exactly batting 1000. Btw, think it was Gaines who recommended Frank? Same guy that recommended KP. Who btw was also a gamble at the time. I like when teams just pick the best available regardless of need of playing style. Cuz those always change. As my football Giants usually do. So But like I said, its kinda hard to judge who will pan out. Specially nowadays in the NBA. As most guys only play one year in college. Would like to see players stay in college all four years. Would also like to see schools be forced to pay these kids. As it is the main reason they leave so early.

Yeah of course. I try to be fair. As much of a fan as I am in frank I would take mitchell over him in a heartbeat. Never was a big fan of smith or monk. They bring some offense but thats all

Think all our young players have something to look forward to. Will any of them be stars? Mo one knew or knows for sure.

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:So now Knicks1248 but brings up stats from Frank when he was 16 playing with older guys in europe to "prove" Frank shouldnt even of been drafted lol. Trying to decide if its more agenda driven or just pure idiocy.

Yes, hard to consider those stats at that age. Think Franks draft selection is a fair question. But like i have said before, many draft picks are shots in the dark. So that is nothing new. Not a secret I liked Smith, Mitchell and Monk over Frank. So not exactly batting 1000. Btw, think it was Gaines who recommended Frank? Same guy that recommended KP. Who btw was also a gamble at the time. I like when teams just pick the best available regardless of need of playing style. Cuz those always change. As my football Giants usually do. So But like I said, its kinda hard to judge who will pan out. Specially nowadays in the NBA. As most guys only play one year in college. Would like to see players stay in college all four years. Would also like to see schools be forced to pay these kids. As it is the main reason they leave so early.

Yeah of course. I try to be fair. As much of a fan as I am in frank I would take mitchell over him in a heartbeat. Never was a big fan of smith or monk. They bring some offense but thats all

Think all our young players have something to look forward to. Will any of them be stars? Mo one knew or knows for sure.

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Fiz needs to give Frank the green light to shoot whenever he gets the ball like with Knox. Do that and he'll be fine

I think he has it.

Of course he has, frank said it himself, "the coach wants me to more aggressive"

Some of you keep saying he's getting better, but his numbers from his first 3 games last yr are slightly better, he actually took more shots and played less minutes, shot a higher percentage. As of today he is shooting 34%, 27% on 3's and has still not taking a FT..

That is considered a major liability on offense

gotta be a little fair its only 3 games. Plus of course you dont mention the net game where his offense got us back in the game in the 3rd quarter. Fiz admitted he put the ball in his hands which he needs to do more

his lack off offense is what put us behind

I would take trae youngs (same age as frank) 35 pts and 11 ast over franks decent defense,5 points and 2 steals.

If Dotson comes in and does his thing along with trier, eventually you,re going to have to reduce franks minutes.

Fiz is all about earning your role. You need to stopped with giving him excuse for his horrible offense just like you don't give morio excuses for being a suspect defender

Its fair criticism from 1248, if its to counter the notion that Frank is guaranteed to become more than a role player. Unfair, if its a criticism of Frank as a role player.

As a role player he does a lot of things well. I dont see anything certain as far as Frank's ceiling, either way. Maybe thats why Frank can be frustrating to watch at times. Shows glimpses during games.

As I said in the gamethread, in the NBA, you have to want to be the man to play PG, I dont see that yet from Frank. Usually thats there already.

Still very early, Im sure 1248 would agree the Frank has plenty of time this season to become better at sustaining a certain level of aggression, offensively. Does that and he's at least a borderline all-star, depending on how much he improves.

The league average for scoring last year was about 106 according to bballreference.com. We're averaging a shade under 111, which is good for 9th, I know, only three games. And I realize Frank has to score more. He's showing aggressiveness and I'm encouraged. But to single Frank out as the reason we lost during a period when the entire team was cold seems a bit much. We're clearly scoring enough. We lost those last two games for a number of reasons. Knicks1248 seems to neglect, or just doesn't want to see the one where our overpaid starting SG failed to get key defensive stops at the end of games 2X in row.

This is the bull sht finger pointing I'm talking about, THJ has been carrying the offensive load for lance and frank, and you point out his one play he didn't get a stop on a really good player.

If frank was so good defensively, how come the coach didn't give him that assignment.

It's so stupid to think a die hard knick fan is not pulling for his players. It's frustrating to see a player with his potential, his length, and his abilities not take advantage of it.

The only way your going to get frank to play more aggressive is to take away his minutes if he doesn't, just like you take away minutes from a player who's not defending.

Now if he was getting 4 blocks, 4 steals, 5 deflections, redirecting shots, 7 assist, I wouldn't care if he every shot the ball because his defense is compensating.

knicks1248 wrote:

his lack off offense is what put us behind

Simply not true. The entire unit was cold, but you wanted to single out Frank for some reason. But you failed to mention Burke's mediocre play and THJ's slack defense. It wasn't play that THJ didn't get the stop. I'm just highlighting the plays that cost us two games.Yes, Frank needs to improve. But he isn't the sole reason we lost. You harp on our offense, even though we're scoring at decent clip. Just face it, you have Sith level hate when it comes to Frank.

The league avg in scoring was around 106 last season, the pelicans are avg 140 points in their first 2 games, they scored 149 in a regulation game.

Scoring in the NBA is through the roof. We are avg 110 points (which would have been tops last season) this season that's good for 17th (below avg)

The defense will keep you in some games, but lets be honest dude, teams are putting 4 to 5 players on the floor that can knock down threes, hit FT's(the ticky tack fouls are way up) and everyone is playing just as fast as us.

Speed is not the answer all the time. Lakers are #1 in possessions per game. Have they won a game? Speed + Control is the answer. and that control sometimes comes from slowing it down and sometimes comes from D

I just looked up these stats and here is a couple of things: We're 5th in points scored per game and 29th in points given up. We're 10th in pace. As I've stated before, I don't think scoring has been our biggest issue. These number are from basketball reference and NBA.com.

Couple of facts.
In the Brooklyn game Frank was a minus 22. Not the whole unit.
Pointing out that Frank is not good offensively, is not only true but agreed upon by most.
The league average thus far is 112.96. We are below the league average.
We are above league average in Team defense.

Frank's offense was never in question? I got my numbers from bball reference.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2019.html
http://
It's so early that one game can change things. Even so, as of today, we're at the median with a rank of 16 at offense and and 14 for points given up and we're 10th in pace. So, basically we should be .500 team.

The point isn't whether or not Frank needs to improve his offense. I think everyone has stated this as fact. The point is we have a bad team with cargo load full of deficiencies and it's ridiculous to single out Frank as the reason. What about Tim and Burke's D? What about Kanter's D? What about coaches end of the game strategy the past two games? The list goes on. We've played four games and it too early to go off on this team, especially in what is supposed to be a rebuilding year. I get it, some fans don't like Frank. I liked Miles Bridges over Knox, although I'm happy with Knox. AM I supposed to go I told you so everytime Bridges makes a highlight dunk?

Think every concern you listed is a valid concern and a good talking point. Think most of our players have deficiencies. Reason why we are not a playoff team. Shit, most NBA players have deficiencies. Think most so called Frank haters are saying the same thing Frank lovers are saying when listing the things Frank needs to improve. Only difference is that some feel he should be further along due to his high draft position. Nothing new in sports. High draft picks come with higher expectations. If Knox does not live up to his high draft selection, he will get the same as well. Think some that were against Frank as our pick are confusing hope with denial.

Juliano wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Juliano wrote:At this point I'd like Fiz to pick a game that is a lost cause -like GSW next week- and tell Frank "you go out there and you drop 25, I don't care if you defend like a ****ing traffic cone but you drop 25 or you're benched"

fizdale seems to view frank as extremely important so I doubt that would ever happen.

I know that, but the point is his defense is bailing him out. It's cool that he's got that instinct, but if it's giving him a free out of jail card on offense it's not that good, he's got to know that he has to be effective on both sides of the court to be meaningful. It's ok to limit the opposition's scoring but it's pointless if you're not taking advantage on the other end. Appart from the Bucks, both previous games have been close losses, and whilst it's obviously not that simple 5 more points from him could have helped make a difference.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Juliano wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Juliano wrote:At this point I'd like Fiz to pick a game that is a lost cause -like GSW next week- and tell Frank "you go out there and you drop 25, I don't care if you defend like a ****ing traffic cone but you drop 25 or you're benched"

fizdale seems to view frank as extremely important so I doubt that would ever happen.

I know that, but the point is his defense is bailing him out. It's cool that he's got that instinct, but if it's giving him a free out of jail card on offense it's not that good, he's got to know that he has to be effective on both sides of the court to be meaningful. It's ok to limit the opposition's scoring but it's pointless if you're not taking advantage on the other end. Appart from the Bucks, both previous games have been close losses, and whilst it's obviously not that simple 5 more points from him could have helped make a difference.

last night he was doing a good job distributing the ball to the guys who had the hot hand like dotson and mario so I cant blame him for that. Like I mentioned before he was taking shots they just havent gone in. Except in the net game his offense got us back in it. Fizdale should run more plays for him

There's no reason at all to give up open shots, I don't care if his teammate hit 10 in a row. Then when you see Burke, Trier and timmy shooting all the time you call them chucka's.

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:So now Knicks1248 but brings up stats from Frank when he was 16 playing with older guys in europe to "prove" Frank shouldnt even of been drafted lol. Trying to decide if its more agenda driven or just pure idiocy.

Yes, hard to consider those stats at that age. Think Franks draft selection is a fair question though. AS long as most realize that most draft picks are still just shots in the dark. Not a secret I liked Smith, Mitchell and Monk over Frank. So not exactly batting 1000. Btw, think it was Gaines who recommended Frank? Same guy that recommended KP. Who btw was also a gamble at the time. I like when teams just pick the best available regardless of need, playing style or system in place. Cuz those always change. As my football Giants usually do. So But like I said, its kinda hard to judge who will pan out. Specially nowadays in the NBA. As most guys only play one year in college. Would like to see players stay in college all four years. Would also like to see schools be forced to pay these kids. As it is the main reason they leave so early.

Most NBA players were their high schools best player, lighting up since 16.

I posted the numbers as additional proof that he has never had a scoring mentality. We don't have the luxury of having any stars on this team, any top scorers, and we lost Knox and Lee to injury, so is it fair to put the scoring load on 2 or 3 players. We're losing games by a hand full of points, and we got two guys on this roster(frank and lance) that don't that part.