Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I don't think rushing to get the "disruptive" TYSON Chandler out of the lockerroom did anything for this current lockerroom

No but you wanted it to happen also. In fact you started a thread on that...
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46979

If you look back a year ago there is plenty more:
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=47019
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=47041

Briggs is another who kills the Tyson trade but last year he was pining to dump Tyson for the first chance at a pick in the bottom of the first round.

The trade didnt work out, but as you can see from the above nobody, NOBODY was saying Tyson needs a better environment. Tyson will bounce back, Tyson will get healthy, bla bla bla. Sorry folks.. you all wanted him dumped. Meanwhile this time last year Calderon was the starting PG on a 50 win team in the West shooting 45% from 3 and was a very good floor general for that team. You guys can pretend you were kicking and screaming but you werent. This was not a bad trade at face value. God forbid Early or Thanisis pop and Tyson is an afterthought.

Im sure when we jettison Calderon and he's back to shooting 45% from 3 and playing really well for some other team there will be a new list of excuses.

Look a little more closely at those threads. Of course, no one used the word "will" as if they had a crystal ball but there were plenty of people talking about this environment bringing the worst out in Tyson and expecting him to also play better in a contract year. Most players do.

except Amare. And Shump. And Bargs. But yea.. JR sure did (until is wasnt a contract year again) and Tyson sure has taken his flu shots hasnt he.

That's the only thing you commented on? OK - How about Melo's rebounding skyrocketing to a career high in his contract year?

skyrocketing? Are you trying to be provacative? Yes.. he rebounding skyrocketed, no doubt to get paid. Whats puzzling about that # Bonn is that while his rebounding #s SKYROCKETED by 1.2 rebs a game his scoring average took a precipitous drop from 28.7 to 27.3
I mean that kind of TAILSPIN represents a.... sigh, never mind. I cant even be bothered.

You forgot blocks too... how can you explain blocking .5 shots a game for your career, then block .7 in your contract year? Obviously he was stat padding for a money grab.

Those are Melo's rebounding #s in the night

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I don't think rushing to get the "disruptive" TYSON Chandler out of the lockerroom did anything for this current lockerroom

No but you wanted it to happen also. In fact you started a thread on that...
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46979

If you look back a year ago there is plenty more:
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=47019
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=47041

Briggs is another who kills the Tyson trade but last year he was pining to dump Tyson for the first chance at a pick in the bottom of the first round.

The trade didnt work out, but as you can see from the above nobody, NOBODY was saying Tyson needs a better environment. Tyson will bounce back, Tyson will get healthy, bla bla bla. Sorry folks.. you all wanted him dumped. Meanwhile this time last year Calderon was the starting PG on a 50 win team in the West shooting 45% from 3 and was a very good floor general for that team. You guys can pretend you were kicking and screaming but you werent. This was not a bad trade at face value. God forbid Early or Thanisis pop and Tyson is an afterthought.

Im sure when we jettison Calderon and he's back to shooting 45% from 3 and playing really well for some other team there will be a new list of excuses.

Look a little more closely at those threads. Of course, no one used the word "will" as if they had a crystal ball but there were plenty of people talking about this environment bringing the worst out in Tyson and expecting him to also play better in a contract year. Most players do.

except Amare. And Shump. And Bargs. But yea.. JR sure did (until is wasnt a contract year again) and Tyson sure has taken his flu shots hasnt he.

That's the only thing you commented on? OK - How about Melo's rebounding skyrocketing to a career high in his contract year?

skyrocketing? Are you trying to be provacative? Yes.. he rebounding skyrocketed, no doubt to get paid. Whats puzzling about that # Bonn is that while his rebounding #s SKYROCKETED by 1.2 rebs a game his scoring average took a precipitous drop from 28.7 to 27.3
I mean that kind of TAILSPIN represents a.... sigh, never mind. I cant even be bothered.

You forgot blocks too... how can you explain blocking .5 shots a game for your career, then block .7 in your contract year? Obviously he was stat padding for a money grab.

Those are Melo's rebounding #s in the night

A 20% increase in rebounding is pretty uncommon. That's the same % as him adding 5 ppg. I remember you praising the rebounding increase many times during the year - at the time you did think it was a big increase

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:I think an apology for the product they paid handsomely to watch nightly is also in order...

well lets be fair.. thats another thing we have seen from this management. All other regimes in the past it was "we like our team" or "we are always looking to improve" or equally empty things. Phil says we stink and give the BB gods heartburn. I mean sounds weird but thats a breath of fresh air. We are terrible and have work to do.

Phil said he was trying to make the playoffs with the product out of training camp...He wasn't even close so he decided to clean house...Fisher has just been awful..Phil said he traded for Calderon because he fits what he is trying to do..Later he said he was trying to trade Calderon but there were no takers..What GM does that to a player by the way...I'm not under any illusions, I'm scared..The plan changes on a whim...But hey, I'm rooting for him and Fisher...

1st of all since so many teams make the playoffs it's not strange for a GM to come out and say we could make the playoffs. Especially in the East. There were health issues from the very start which hampered the process and on top of that you had JR and others not really buying in and a bad attitude in the locker room. Phil said from the start that he would pretty much know what he has by December and so he flushed that project and went with plan B. This has put us in a position to land a top pick for once. What's not to like about him doing that? This is what needed to be done.

If we end up drafting a stud this summer no one is going to be focussing on this season any longer. Except to say that it was worth it.

The reason I don't buy the JR not buying in story is that he was one of the better players in the triangle in my opinion..I often commented he made the best passes out of the sets...JR is everyone's scapegoat...

Exactly, the triangle's most important position is the 2g, a position that's now dominated by combo guards that are 6 4".

I can't wait to hear phils sorry ass speech when he realize's he has to max out any FA considering the knicks, or when his only options are summer league players and d-leaugers

You're hoping and looking forward to us failing this off-season so you can be proved right? Weird priorities.

And this is how I end up in these epic battles with these guys about the teams prospects. I get that my optimistic take isn't for everyone but I'm not hoping for failure. All I'm saying is we've got a good chance for success this summer.

They not only disagree but some are hoping for failure IMO. Some believe failure is the most likely outcome. Anytime we present likely scenarios for future rosters they shoot it down. Fine they disagree but I find it odd to be so nasty towards the team you claim to love when they finally tore it down to get a high pick and try to sign free agents. Closest thing to rebuild we're gonna get and still they're not happy.

if you were a betting man, do you think that there is a better chance of success (+40 wins) or failure?

How many games do you think that we will win next year?

I wouldnt say we are set up for success, I mean everything can fail. Melo could pop an achillies, Towns could have knees like Oden, etc etc.. but there is a legit real chance that things could dramatically turn around. Most of the guys in the top 5 of the draft can be impact rookies and play rotation minutes. While I admit the chances of a star FA (or two) are slim, Phil Jackson and Fisher have plenty of respect around the league, so lets see how the recruiting goes...

Whats your win total prediction for this team (assuming Melo looks healthy and normal come fall)
C RLopz
PF Okafor
SF Melo
SG Galloway
PG Dragic
Bench: Shved, Admundson, Early, Cole, etc

And that doesnt factor in Jose, who is only one year removed from starting 80 games with an almost 600 TS%, I think its reasonable to consider the upside of him bouncing back and having a very good year as well.

I mean that could absolutely be a 45-50 win team, especially if Melo is a 100%.

The possibility is there and its real. Odds? I have no clue. I would not be suprised by the above lineup playing great and the Knicks doing a worst to first. I really wouldnt. I also wouldnt be suprised if its a disaster. Its tough to tell in Knick land. If this was a Dolan stooge in charge I would expect the worst, Phil is uncharted. Things will be much much clearer by the fall.

I dont think a quick bounce would be a miracle... like hoping Gallo is the next Dirk. I mean he have close to enough to add 2 max guys next to Melo and a top 3 pick. I mean whats the forumula for that kind of bounce? Guys who did nothing return from injury (Jose/Melo), you have the cap space to sign an impact FA, and you have a top pick to draft an impact player. Its totally possible we could have a big 4

That would be a nice 40-45 win lineup (which I would take at this point)

How about if we draft Russell or Mudiay.

Russell/Mudiay
Melo
Kanter (for a ridiculous amount)
Gallo
Tobias Harris

Uh oh?

why uh oh? I like your lineup as well, and if the chemistry is there they could certainly win 45+

I dont buy the NY negativity or the fact that this team is as bad as its been. I mean the Knicks are going to have to overpay a bit to steal and FA, just every other team, but there are options and some pretty good ones.