ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:He'll get credit from the skeptics if or when he achieves something that they care about - high PPG isn't one of them.

Good Lord - not even a tip of the cap, eh?

PPG is unimportant. I give him credit for improving his scoring efficiency, though - that is something that merits praise.

Tell that to Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, David Robinson, Rick Barry, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Tiny Archibald, George Gervin, Bob McAdoo, Shaquille O'Neal

What do you mean? I don't remember any of them bragging about their PPG

Huh?

Who said anything about bragging?

Scoring title is a pretty significant career accomplishment. Tell David Robinson a scoring title didn't mean anything when he poured in 71 points on the last game of the season to surpass Shaquille O'Neal in 1994.

What's the object of Basketball? To put the ball in the hoop!

Tell these players that bust their ass day in and day out through the offseason, through training camp, through a rigirous regular season that a scoring title means nothing.

So yea...I think PPG is a little more than unimportant Bonn. Maybe take a walk some where and get some fresh air.

the object of basketball is to WIN

How do you go about WINNING though? Don't you have to score more than the opposition to win?

the old "outscoring" proposition made famous by your favorite coach mike d'antoni?

yeah that's one way to look at it.

after all he was a nash nose gash and a multiple player suspension away from reaching the finals with that approach, as improbable as that was. a prime nash is not to be ****ed with but popovich made sure that he was ****ed with so there you go.

i still maintain it's not THAT you win it's HOW you win.

bottom line? winning involves players meshing their skills on offense and working their asses off on defense.

scoring does not mean much if you don't contribute to synergy.

van gundy distinguishes among playing ALONGSIDE others, playing WITH others, and playing FOR others.

a scoring title is simply the most individual accomplishment there is in basketball, and does not necessarily coincide with selfishness.

melo raised his efficiency this season to its 3rd highest. this is good-- for him, that is-- but not elite. 58%TS and above is elite.

melo had the ball in his hands the most ever in his career for a 35.6 USG. this is bad. also he shot the ball over 22 times a game, the 2nd highest of his career.

all this adds up to is a volume shooter who wins the scoring title.

but was he outright selfish? the good melo kept the ball moving-- thrilling when he does this-- and the bad melo did not. his USG:AST was 2.52:1. this is pretty selfish.

but this stat is an average-- some games he did not share the ball at all yet shot the ball lights out. other games he shot the ball not so well but was swinging the ball dirk-ishly and boy was that a welcome sight from him.

we're talking about winning now, right? not just scoring but winning.

i would say that if melo manages to get his dirk on the knicks are going to have a great chance of not only reaching the ECF but making a real series of it.

to my eyes i see the knicks taking the only route accessible to them to beat the heat, ie the same route dallas took to beat the heat with dirk nowitzki.

keep the turnovers down to prevent fast break transition points, keep moving the ball ahead of the rotations, and by god don't take bad shots.

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:He'll get credit from the skeptics if or when he achieves something that they care about - high PPG isn't one of them.

Good Lord - not even a tip of the cap, eh?

PPG is unimportant. I give him credit for improving his scoring efficiency, though - that is something that merits praise.

Tell that to Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, David Robinson, Rick Barry, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Tiny Archibald, George Gervin, Bob McAdoo, Shaquille O'Neal

What do you mean? I don't remember any of them bragging about their PPG

Huh?

Who said anything about bragging?

Scoring title is a pretty significant career accomplishment. Tell David Robinson a scoring title didn't mean anything when he poured in 71 points on the last game of the season to surpass Shaquille O'Neal in 1994.

What's the object of Basketball? To put the ball in the hoop!

Tell these players that bust their ass day in and day out through the offseason, through training camp, through a rigirous regular season that a scoring title means nothing.

So yea...I think PPG is a little more than unimportant Bonn. Maybe take a walk some where and get some fresh air.

the object of basketball is to WIN

How do you go about WINNING though? Don't you have to score more than the opposition to win?

the old "outscoring" proposition made famous by your favorite coach mike d'antoni?

yeah that's one way to look at it.

after all he was a nash nose gash and a multiple player suspension away from reaching the finals with that approach, as improbable as that was. a prime nash is not to be ****ed with but popovich made sure that he was ****ed with so there you go.

i still maintain it's not THAT you win it's HOW you win.

bottom line? winning involves players meshing their skills on offense and working their asses off on defense.

scoring does not mean much if you don't contribute to synergy.

van gundy distinguishes among playing ALONGSIDE others, playing WITH others, and playing FOR others.

a scoring title is simply the most individual accomplishment there is in basketball, and does not necessarily coincide with selfishness.

melo raised his efficiency this season to its 3rd highest. this is good-- for him, that is-- but not elite. 58%TS and above is elite.

melo had the ball in his hands the most ever in his career for a 35.6 USG. this is bad. also he shot the ball over 22 times a game, the 2nd highest of his career.

all this adds up to is a volume shooter who wins the scoring title.

but was he outright selfish? the good melo kept the ball moving-- thrilling when he does this-- and the bad melo did not. his USG:AST was 2.52:1. this is pretty selfish.

but this stat is an average-- some games he did not share the ball at all yet shot the ball lights out. other games he shot the ball not so well but was swinging the ball dirk-ishly and boy was that a welcome sight from him.

we're talking about winning now, right? not just scoring but winning.

i would say that if melo manages to get his dirk on the knicks are going to have a great chance of not only reaching the ECF but making a real series of it.

to my eyes i see the knicks taking the only route accessible to them to beat the heat, ie the same route dallas took to beat the heat with dirk nowitzki.

keep the turnovers down to prevent fast break transition points, keep moving the ball ahead of the rotations, and by god don't take bad shots.

Okay....

So basically you're saying we have a chance.

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:He'll get credit from the skeptics if or when he achieves something that they care about - high PPG isn't one of them.

Good Lord - not even a tip of the cap, eh?

PPG is unimportant. I give him credit for improving his scoring efficiency, though - that is something that merits praise.

Tell that to Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, David Robinson, Rick Barry, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Tiny Archibald, George Gervin, Bob McAdoo, Shaquille O'Neal

What do you mean? I don't remember any of them bragging about their PPG

Huh?

Who said anything about bragging?

Scoring title is a pretty significant career accomplishment. Tell David Robinson a scoring title didn't mean anything when he poured in 71 points on the last game of the season to surpass Shaquille O'Neal in 1994.

What's the object of Basketball? To put the ball in the hoop!

Tell these players that bust their ass day in and day out through the offseason, through training camp, through a rigirous regular season that a scoring title means nothing.

So yea...I think PPG is a little more than unimportant Bonn. Maybe take a walk some where and get some fresh air.

the object of basketball is to WIN

How do you go about WINNING though? Don't you have to do score more than the opposition to win?

Or do you have to hold your opponent to fewer points than you put up?
Regardless, you are confounding team with individual scoring. I don't really think you mean what you're saying. Guys like Chris Paul or Steve Nash in his prime would be just mediocre players since their PPG is mediocre.

Uhh, you still have to score more than the opponent. No way the Bull's of the 90s, defensive juggernauts as they were, win without MJ pouring 30+ a game.

Lakers needed either Shaq or Kobe to pour in 30+ a game to win.

Guys like Chris Paul and Steve Nash are great great players, they've just never been matched with their scoring machine counterpart, apologies to Griffin and Amare.

Can't remember a recent championship team that didn't have an individual that went absolutely nuts in the NBA Finals.

Maybe 2004 when Chauncey won Finals MVP with a modest 21 pts average?

Bad teams, great teams, and teams every where in between have had plenty of high PPG players. The better teams have a lot of efficient scorers (and players who contribute in many other ways).

Some examples Bonn?

Every Championship Team I can think of had an epic performance by a player scoring wise except Chauncey Billups.

Lebron, Dirk, Wade, Olajuwon, Kobe, Shaq, Tony Parker, TD, Jordan, Isiah THomas...mind's drawing a blank.

You got any examples for me? Probably not.

Examples of what? High PPG players on poor teams? Sure - look at the ten most elite PPG players each year. Few of them are on elite teams. In fact, about a third of them are on sub .500 teams.

Everyone of those players I listed are High PPG players that won Championships. It seems every Championship team has one of those scoring machines.

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:He'll get credit from the skeptics if or when he achieves something that they care about - high PPG isn't one of them.

Good Lord - not even a tip of the cap, eh?

PPG is unimportant. I give him credit for improving his scoring efficiency, though - that is something that merits praise.

Tell that to Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, David Robinson, Rick Barry, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Tiny Archibald, George Gervin, Bob McAdoo, Shaquille O'Neal

What do you mean? I don't remember any of them bragging about their PPG

Huh?

Who said anything about bragging?

Scoring title is a pretty significant career accomplishment. Tell David Robinson a scoring title didn't mean anything when he poured in 71 points on the last game of the season to surpass Shaquille O'Neal in 1994.

What's the object of Basketball? To put the ball in the hoop!

Tell these players that bust their ass day in and day out through the offseason, through training camp, through a rigirous regular season that a scoring title means nothing.

So yea...I think PPG is a little more than unimportant Bonn. Maybe take a walk some where and get some fresh air.

the object of basketball is to WIN

How do you go about WINNING though? Don't you have to do score more than the opposition to win?

Or do you have to hold your opponent to fewer points than you put up?
Regardless, you are confounding team with individual scoring. I don't really think you mean what you're saying. Guys like Chris Paul or Steve Nash in his prime would be just mediocre players since their PPG is mediocre.

Uhh, you still have to score more than the opponent. No way the Bull's of the 90s, defensive juggernauts as they were, win without MJ pouring 30+ a game.

Lakers needed either Shaq or Kobe to pour in 30+ a game to win.

Guys like Chris Paul and Steve Nash are great great players, they've just never been matched with their scoring machine counterpart, apologies to Griffin and Amare.

Can't remember a recent championship team that didn't have an individual that went absolutely nuts in the NBA Finals.

Maybe 2004 when Chauncey won Finals MVP with a modest 21 pts average?

Bad teams, great teams, and teams every where in between have had plenty of high PPG players. The better teams have a lot of efficient scorers (and players who contribute in many other ways).

Some examples Bonn?

Every Championship Team I can think of had an epic performance by a player scoring wise except Chauncey Billups.

Lebron, Dirk, Wade, Olajuwon, Kobe, Shaq, Tony Parker, TD, Jordan, Isiah THomas...mind's drawing a blank.

You got any examples for me? Probably not.

Examples of what? High PPG players on poor teams? Sure - look at the ten most elite PPG players each year. Few of them are on elite teams. In fact, about a third of them are on sub .500 teams.

Everyone of those players I listed are High PPG players that won Championships. It seems every Championship team has one of those scoring machines.

That doesn't dispute anything I said. High PPG players are on great and bad teams. In other words, that is not a factor that distinguishes the great from the bad teams.

Actually it is a factor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_scoring_leaders

If you look at the names through NBA history, several made deep playoff runs or won NBA Championships.

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:He'll get credit from the skeptics if or when he achieves something that they care about - high PPG isn't one of them.

Good Lord - not even a tip of the cap, eh?

PPG is unimportant. I give him credit for improving his scoring efficiency, though - that is something that merits praise.

Tell that to Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, David Robinson, Rick Barry, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Tiny Archibald, George Gervin, Bob McAdoo, Shaquille O'Neal

What do you mean? I don't remember any of them bragging about their PPG

Huh?

Who said anything about bragging?

Scoring title is a pretty significant career accomplishment. Tell David Robinson a scoring title didn't mean anything when he poured in 71 points on the last game of the season to surpass Shaquille O'Neal in 1994.

What's the object of Basketball? To put the ball in the hoop!

Tell these players that bust their ass day in and day out through the offseason, through training camp, through a rigirous regular season that a scoring title means nothing.

So yea...I think PPG is a little more than unimportant Bonn. Maybe take a walk some where and get some fresh air.

the object of basketball is to WIN

How do you go about WINNING though? Don't you have to score more than the opposition to win?

the old "outscoring" proposition made famous by your favorite coach mike d'antoni?

yeah that's one way to look at it.

after all he was a nash nose gash and a multiple player suspension away from reaching the finals with that approach, as improbable as that was. a prime nash is not to be ****ed with but popovich made sure that he was ****ed with so there you go.

i still maintain it's not THAT you win it's HOW you win.

bottom line? winning involves players meshing their skills on offense and working their asses off on defense.

scoring does not mean much if you don't contribute to synergy.

van gundy distinguishes among playing ALONGSIDE others, playing WITH others, and playing FOR others.

a scoring title is simply the most individual accomplishment there is in basketball, and does not necessarily coincide with selfishness.

melo raised his efficiency this season to its 3rd highest. this is good-- for him, that is-- but not elite. 58%TS and above is elite.

melo had the ball in his hands the most ever in his career for a 35.6 USG. this is bad. also he shot the ball over 22 times a game, the 2nd highest of his career.

all this adds up to is a volume shooter who wins the scoring title.

but was he outright selfish? the good melo kept the ball moving-- thrilling when he does this-- and the bad melo did not. his USG:AST was 2.52:1. this is pretty selfish.

but this stat is an average-- some games he did not share the ball at all yet shot the ball lights out. other games he shot the ball not so well but was swinging the ball dirk-ishly and boy was that a welcome sight from him.

we're talking about winning now, right? not just scoring but winning.

i would say that if melo manages to get his dirk on the knicks are going to have a great chance of not only reaching the ECF but making a real series of it.

to my eyes i see the knicks taking the only route accessible to them to beat the heat, ie the same route dallas took to beat the heat with dirk nowitzki.

keep the turnovers down to prevent fast break transition points, keep moving the ball ahead of the rotations, and by god don't take bad shots.

Okay....

So basically you're saying we have a chance.

great movie.

heat have a 30% chance home court throughout playoffs
okc have a 30% chance home court throughout playoffs

spurs have a 12% chance

after this it doesn't really matter but just for kicks:

clips have a 7% chance
nuggets have a 4.7% chance
pacers have a 4.6% chance
knicks have a 3.6% chance

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:He'll get credit from the skeptics if or when he achieves something that they care about - high PPG isn't one of them.

Good Lord - not even a tip of the cap, eh?

PPG is unimportant. I give him credit for improving his scoring efficiency, though - that is something that merits praise.

Tell that to Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, David Robinson, Rick Barry, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Tiny Archibald, George Gervin, Bob McAdoo, Shaquille O'Neal

What do you mean? I don't remember any of them bragging about their PPG

Huh?

Who said anything about bragging?

Scoring title is a pretty significant career accomplishment. Tell David Robinson a scoring title didn't mean anything when he poured in 71 points on the last game of the season to surpass Shaquille O'Neal in 1994.

What's the object of Basketball? To put the ball in the hoop!

Tell these players that bust their ass day in and day out through the offseason, through training camp, through a rigirous regular season that a scoring title means nothing.

So yea...I think PPG is a little more than unimportant Bonn. Maybe take a walk some where and get some fresh air.

the object of basketball is to WIN

How do you go about WINNING though? Don't you have to do score more than the opposition to win?

Or do you have to hold your opponent to fewer points than you put up?
Regardless, you are confounding team with individual scoring. I don't really think you mean what you're saying. Guys like Chris Paul or Steve Nash in his prime would be just mediocre players since their PPG is mediocre.

Uhh, you still have to score more than the opponent. No way the Bull's of the 90s, defensive juggernauts as they were, win without MJ pouring 30+ a game.

Lakers needed either Shaq or Kobe to pour in 30+ a game to win.

Guys like Chris Paul and Steve Nash are great great players, they've just never been matched with their scoring machine counterpart, apologies to Griffin and Amare.

Can't remember a recent championship team that didn't have an individual that went absolutely nuts in the NBA Finals.

Maybe 2004 when Chauncey won Finals MVP with a modest 21 pts average?

Bad teams, great teams, and teams every where in between have had plenty of high PPG players. The better teams have a lot of efficient scorers (and players who contribute in many other ways).

Some examples Bonn?

Every Championship Team I can think of had an epic performance by a player scoring wise except Chauncey Billups.

Lebron, Dirk, Wade, Olajuwon, Kobe, Shaq, Tony Parker, TD, Jordan, Isiah THomas...mind's drawing a blank.

You got any examples for me? Probably not.

Examples of what? High PPG players on poor teams? Sure - look at the ten most elite PPG players each year. Few of them are on elite teams. In fact, about a third of them are on sub .500 teams.

Everyone of those players I listed are High PPG players that won Championships. It seems every Championship team has one of those scoring machines.

That doesn't dispute anything I said. High PPG players are on great and bad teams. In other words, that is not a factor that distinguishes the great from the bad teams.

Actually it is a factor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_scoring_leaders

If you look at the names through NBA history, several made deep playoff runs or won NBA Championships.

and several didn't when they led the league

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:He'll get credit from the skeptics if or when he achieves something that they care about - high PPG isn't one of them.

Good Lord - not even a tip of the cap, eh?

PPG is unimportant. I give him credit for improving his scoring efficiency, though - that is something that merits praise.

Tell that to Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, David Robinson, Rick Barry, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Tiny Archibald, George Gervin, Bob McAdoo, Shaquille O'Neal

What do you mean? I don't remember any of them bragging about their PPG

Huh?

Who said anything about bragging?

Scoring title is a pretty significant career accomplishment. Tell David Robinson a scoring title didn't mean anything when he poured in 71 points on the last game of the season to surpass Shaquille O'Neal in 1994.

What's the object of Basketball? To put the ball in the hoop!

Tell these players that bust their ass day in and day out through the offseason, through training camp, through a rigirous regular season that a scoring title means nothing.

So yea...I think PPG is a little more than unimportant Bonn. Maybe take a walk some where and get some fresh air.

the object of basketball is to WIN

How do you go about WINNING though? Don't you have to do score more than the opposition to win?

Or do you have to hold your opponent to fewer points than you put up?
Regardless, you are confounding team with individual scoring. I don't really think you mean what you're saying. Guys like Chris Paul or Steve Nash in his prime would be just mediocre players since their PPG is mediocre.

Uhh, you still have to score more than the opponent. No way the Bull's of the 90s, defensive juggernauts as they were, win without MJ pouring 30+ a game.

Lakers needed either Shaq or Kobe to pour in 30+ a game to win.

Guys like Chris Paul and Steve Nash are great great players, they've just never been matched with their scoring machine counterpart, apologies to Griffin and Amare.

Can't remember a recent championship team that didn't have an individual that went absolutely nuts in the NBA Finals.

Maybe 2004 when Chauncey won Finals MVP with a modest 21 pts average?

Bad teams, great teams, and teams every where in between have had plenty of high PPG players. The better teams have a lot of efficient scorers (and players who contribute in many other ways).

Some examples Bonn?

Every Championship Team I can think of had an epic performance by a player scoring wise except Chauncey Billups.

Lebron, Dirk, Wade, Olajuwon, Kobe, Shaq, Tony Parker, TD, Jordan, Isiah THomas...mind's drawing a blank.

You got any examples for me? Probably not.

Examples of what? High PPG players on poor teams? Sure - look at the ten most elite PPG players each year. Few of them are on elite teams. In fact, about a third of them are on sub .500 teams.

Everyone of those players I listed are High PPG players that won Championships. It seems every Championship team has one of those scoring machines.

That doesn't dispute anything I said. High PPG players are on great and bad teams. In other words, that is not a factor that distinguishes the great from the bad teams.

Actually it is a factor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_scoring_leaders

If you look at the names through NBA history, several made deep playoff runs or won NBA Championships.

and several didn't

Several didn't what? Most of the players on this list, with TMAC maybe exception, on the way to the Hall of Fame or made an NBA Finals appearance, or won an NBA Championship.

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:He'll get credit from the skeptics if or when he achieves something that they care about - high PPG isn't one of them.

Good Lord - not even a tip of the cap, eh?

PPG is unimportant. I give him credit for improving his scoring efficiency, though - that is something that merits praise.

Tell that to Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, David Robinson, Rick Barry, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Tiny Archibald, George Gervin, Bob McAdoo, Shaquille O'Neal

What do you mean? I don't remember any of them bragging about their PPG

Huh?

Who said anything about bragging?

Scoring title is a pretty significant career accomplishment. Tell David Robinson a scoring title didn't mean anything when he poured in 71 points on the last game of the season to surpass Shaquille O'Neal in 1994.

What's the object of Basketball? To put the ball in the hoop!

Tell these players that bust their ass day in and day out through the offseason, through training camp, through a rigirous regular season that a scoring title means nothing.

So yea...I think PPG is a little more than unimportant Bonn. Maybe take a walk some where and get some fresh air.

the object of basketball is to WIN

How do you go about WINNING though? Don't you have to do score more than the opposition to win?

Or do you have to hold your opponent to fewer points than you put up?
Regardless, you are confounding team with individual scoring. I don't really think you mean what you're saying. Guys like Chris Paul or Steve Nash in his prime would be just mediocre players since their PPG is mediocre.

Uhh, you still have to score more than the opponent. No way the Bull's of the 90s, defensive juggernauts as they were, win without MJ pouring 30+ a game.

Lakers needed either Shaq or Kobe to pour in 30+ a game to win.

Guys like Chris Paul and Steve Nash are great great players, they've just never been matched with their scoring machine counterpart, apologies to Griffin and Amare.

Can't remember a recent championship team that didn't have an individual that went absolutely nuts in the NBA Finals.

Maybe 2004 when Chauncey won Finals MVP with a modest 21 pts average?

Bad teams, great teams, and teams every where in between have had plenty of high PPG players. The better teams have a lot of efficient scorers (and players who contribute in many other ways).

Some examples Bonn?

Every Championship Team I can think of had an epic performance by a player scoring wise except Chauncey Billups.

Lebron, Dirk, Wade, Olajuwon, Kobe, Shaq, Tony Parker, TD, Jordan, Isiah THomas...mind's drawing a blank.

You got any examples for me? Probably not.

Examples of what? High PPG players on poor teams? Sure - look at the ten most elite PPG players each year. Few of them are on elite teams. In fact, about a third of them are on sub .500 teams.

Everyone of those players I listed are High PPG players that won Championships. It seems every Championship team has one of those scoring machines.

That doesn't dispute anything I said. High PPG players are on great and bad teams. In other words, that is not a factor that distinguishes the great from the bad teams.

Actually it is a factor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Basketball_Association_season_scoring_leaders

If you look at the names through NBA history, several made deep playoff runs or won NBA Championships.

and several didn't

Several didn't what? Most of the players on this list, with TMAC maybe exception, on the way to the Hall of Fame or made an NBA Finals appearance, or won an NBA Championship.

1 out of every 15 teams makes the finals each year. If a player plays in the league for 15 years, we'd expect him just by chance to have a finals appearance and at least one more conference finals appearance. So all you're really saying is that those players weren't worse than you'd expect by chance.

No.

I wouldn't call Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West, Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal, David Robinson, Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Kevin Durant worse by any means.

Bonn1997 wrote:There's really nothing to say on the topic beyond what you'll find in the Wages of Wins journal. The data speak for themselves.
http://wagesofwins.com/2012/03/15/taking-shots-vs-making-shots/
http://wagesofwins.com/2012/03/13/the-numbers-and-myths-of-shot-creation/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-berri/monta-ellis-carmelo-anthony_b_1349512.html

Since we're going back to sabremetrics again, Carmelo Anthony ranked in the top 15 in both your precious Win Shares(13th) and Win Shares/48 minutes(14th).

That's pretty good, no? Considering there's roughly 400 players in the NBA right?

Not bad for a can't win chucker.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:There's really nothing to say on the topic beyond what you'll find in the Wages of Wins journal. The data speak for themselves.
http://wagesofwins.com/2012/03/15/taking-shots-vs-making-shots/
http://wagesofwins.com/2012/03/13/the-numbers-and-myths-of-shot-creation/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-berri/monta-ellis-carmelo-anthony_b_1349512.html

Since we're going back to sabremetrics again, Carmelo Anthony ranked in the top 15 in both your precious Win Shares(13th) and Win Shares/48 minutes(14th).

That's pretty good, no? Considering there's roughly 400 players in the NBA right?

Not bad for a can't win chucker.