BRIGGS wrote:I think phil has done a good job. He hasn't been successful with free agents but I think he's realized that drafting players is the one avenue where you get a chance to put some personal tough on your personel

newyorker4ever wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Phil's biggest issue was thinking he could make Melo change. Trying to put a playoff team around this career loser to see whether it would work was a bad plan. He should have let Melo go after his contract ran out. The stupid people who care more about Melo than they care about the Knicks would kill him no matter what. At the end of the day he has wasted 3 years tryinng to win Melo over. And the Knicks will pay the price for that. Then the Noah contract was a really dumb move as well. But getting rid of Shump and JR, trading for Rolo were all moves I can support.

Trading Rolo for Rose was not a good move but it was necessary to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Incredible Sulk couldn't even take a team with two 18 point scorers one of which happens to be a top 5 rim protector, a 3 and D guy and an up and coming center to the playoffs in the Leastern conference. But yeah he is a "multiple time allstar and scoring champion" and that's what we need to focus on, because the roster is never good enough for the UltimateDiva.

If we just cut this loser from the team that would still be 5 years too late.

I think you are right about thinking Melo could change. He was a 12 or 13 year vet at that point and he was he was But I disagree that he tried to put a playoff team around Melo. Maybe he tried but he missed badly with the guys he went out and got. This past year the team was lacking talent. KP's first year, the roster was much less clumsy and had a shot but Melo got hurt in the Celtic game, Fish got fired, and Rambis took over. Things just fell apart.

Everyone, and i mean everyone thought the team he put together would be a playoff team last year, even all the hater new york media people thought he put together a good enough team to make the playoffs. So if all these new york media people and fans that think they know so much about basketball and putting teams together thought that team he put together was gonna be good then i guess they're/we're as dumb as Phil is.

"...If healthy", you left out one important piece of information there. Thats why people were largely against bringing in Noah and Rose. The risk of exactly what happened, happening. No one was dumb who saw that coming.

Rose pretty much made it through the full season so you can't use him but of course Noah you can use but nobody saw that coming cause there's no way for that to be done. You and others assumed it could happen and it did.

I bet you even the people that thought they could get injured still thought this team would make the playoffs which was my whole point.

You talked about a PG who was going to take us to the playoffs, and he couldn't finish out the regular season, again. On what planet is that anything but coming up short? Rose was likely the most injured player of the last 4 years, at that point. Noah was a bench player in Chicago because he couldn't handle the minutes, and he couldn't stay healthy.

You bring in two players with their medical history into a starting role and you are courting exactly what happened, disaster. I doubt anyone thought they could make the playoffs without a full season from both of them, with Rolo gone. Who hasn't missed a game in 2 seasons.

I didn't want to be right about the risk of bringing in these two players, but Im not going to apologize for calling it either. No one should.

Yawn yawn zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

EVERYONE thought the Knicks were gonna make the playoffs last year before the season started and even more when we were playing well for the first 20 games or however many it was until we started looking like clown out there.

The only one looking like a clown here is you......

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Phil's biggest issue was thinking he could make Melo change. Trying to put a playoff team around this career loser to see whether it would work was a bad plan. He should have let Melo go after his contract ran out. The stupid people who care more about Melo than they care about the Knicks would kill him no matter what. At the end of the day he has wasted 3 years tryinng to win Melo over. And the Knicks will pay the price for that. Then the Noah contract was a really dumb move as well. But getting rid of Shump and JR, trading for Rolo were all moves I can support.

Trading Rolo for Rose was not a good move but it was necessary to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Incredible Sulk couldn't even take a team with two 18 point scorers one of which happens to be a top 5 rim protector, a 3 and D guy and an up and coming center to the playoffs in the Leastern conference. But yeah he is a "multiple time allstar and scoring champion" and that's what we need to focus on, because the roster is never good enough for the UltimateDiva.

If we just cut this loser from the team that would still be 5 years too late.

I think you are right about thinking Melo could change. He was a 12 or 13 year vet at that point and he was he was But I disagree that he tried to put a playoff team around Melo. Maybe he tried but he missed badly with the guys he went out and got. This past year the team was lacking talent. KP's first year, the roster was much less clumsy and had a shot but Melo got hurt in the Celtic game, Fish got fired, and Rambis took over. Things just fell apart.

Everyone, and i mean everyone thought the team he put together would be a playoff team last year, even all the hater new york media people thought he put together a good enough team to make the playoffs. So if all these new york media people and fans that think they know so much about basketball and putting teams together thought that team he put together was gonna be good then i guess they're/we're as dumb as Phil is.

"...If healthy", you left out one important piece of information there. Thats why people were largely against bringing in Noah and Rose. The risk of exactly what happened, happening. No one was dumb who saw that coming.

Rose pretty much made it through the full season so you can't use him but of course Noah you can use but nobody saw that coming cause there's no way for that to be done. You and others assumed it could happen and it did.

I bet you even the people that thought they could get injured still thought this team would make the playoffs which was my whole point.

You talked about a PG who was going to take us to the playoffs, and he couldn't finish out the regular season, again. On what planet is that anything but coming up short? Rose was likely the most injured player of the last 4 years, at that point. Noah was a bench player in Chicago because he couldn't handle the minutes, and he couldn't stay healthy.

You bring in two players with their medical history into a starting role and you are courting exactly what happened, disaster. I doubt anyone thought they could make the playoffs without a full season from both of them, with Rolo gone. Who hasn't missed a game in 2 seasons.

I didn't want to be right about the risk of bringing in these two players, but Im not going to apologize for calling it either. No one should.

Yawn yawn zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

EVERYONE thought the Knicks were gonna make the playoffs last year before the season started and even more when we were playing well for the first 20 games or however many it was until we started looking like clown out there.

The only one looking like a clown here is you......

You are the king of clowns on this board. lol

Bye now

newyorker4ever wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Phil's biggest issue was thinking he could make Melo change. Trying to put a playoff team around this career loser to see whether it would work was a bad plan. He should have let Melo go after his contract ran out. The stupid people who care more about Melo than they care about the Knicks would kill him no matter what. At the end of the day he has wasted 3 years tryinng to win Melo over. And the Knicks will pay the price for that. Then the Noah contract was a really dumb move as well. But getting rid of Shump and JR, trading for Rolo were all moves I can support.

Trading Rolo for Rose was not a good move but it was necessary to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Incredible Sulk couldn't even take a team with two 18 point scorers one of which happens to be a top 5 rim protector, a 3 and D guy and an up and coming center to the playoffs in the Leastern conference. But yeah he is a "multiple time allstar and scoring champion" and that's what we need to focus on, because the roster is never good enough for the UltimateDiva.

If we just cut this loser from the team that would still be 5 years too late.

I think you are right about thinking Melo could change. He was a 12 or 13 year vet at that point and he was he was But I disagree that he tried to put a playoff team around Melo. Maybe he tried but he missed badly with the guys he went out and got. This past year the team was lacking talent. KP's first year, the roster was much less clumsy and had a shot but Melo got hurt in the Celtic game, Fish got fired, and Rambis took over. Things just fell apart.

Everyone, and i mean everyone thought the team he put together would be a playoff team last year, even all the hater new york media people thought he put together a good enough team to make the playoffs. So if all these new york media people and fans that think they know so much about basketball and putting teams together thought that team he put together was gonna be good then i guess they're/we're as dumb as Phil is.

"...If healthy", you left out one important piece of information there. Thats why people were largely against bringing in Noah and Rose. The risk of exactly what happened, happening. No one was dumb who saw that coming.

THIS!

I actually remember most of the projections being that we would be a lottery team. Hmmmm. Not sure where the "everyone, I mean everyone" is coming from!

Really?? So when we had this starting lineup going into the season most people thought we would be a lottery team?? Hahahaha you're having a memory problem.

PG--D.Rose
SG--C.Lee
SF--C.Anthony
PF--K.Porzingis
C--J.Noah

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Phil's biggest issue was thinking he could make Melo change. Trying to put a playoff team around this career loser to see whether it would work was a bad plan. He should have let Melo go after his contract ran out. The stupid people who care more about Melo than they care about the Knicks would kill him no matter what. At the end of the day he has wasted 3 years tryinng to win Melo over. And the Knicks will pay the price for that. Then the Noah contract was a really dumb move as well. But getting rid of Shump and JR, trading for Rolo were all moves I can support.

Trading Rolo for Rose was not a good move but it was necessary to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Incredible Sulk couldn't even take a team with two 18 point scorers one of which happens to be a top 5 rim protector, a 3 and D guy and an up and coming center to the playoffs in the Leastern conference. But yeah he is a "multiple time allstar and scoring champion" and that's what we need to focus on, because the roster is never good enough for the UltimateDiva.

If we just cut this loser from the team that would still be 5 years too late.

See your still on here 24/7 trying to rid the Knicks of the guy who shipped out your fellow girlfriend. Let me ask you something...how long have you been a Knick fan/ Melo hater. My guess is since 2011. Will you now be leaving the UK site for the Nets forum since his ass will be shipped out now that they got a real PG in Russell? Or is that Melo's fault as well.

Phil and the Triangle will live another 2 years before going into permanent retirement. The Knicks will be back to square one when he leaves. KP will run far away. That's if Phil doesn't devalue him to a point he gives him away for scraps. Like everyone else he has had. But at least we will have Noah to build around. Lmao.

I totally disagree about the Triangle going into retirement. It's CHANGING but not going into retirement! If anything Phil is locking the franchise into the Triangle more like a Cement foundation. His roster moves are moving the team into this direction with players who are Triangle type players rather than AAU types.

The shift of the team's fortunes has already started. In case you and other Phil haters haven't noticed the team is adding talent and getting younger!!! These players are USED to SYSTEM basketball and aren't egomaniacs!!! So there's less chance Phil will have to get into it with these players!!!

his building a Euro team to play in the NBA, as if these same NBA-AAU-players haven't crushed those euro players in every Olympic basketball competition since 92 (with the exception of the 04 team).

Phills foundation he's so called building will be ripped to shreds upon his departure in 2 yrs. No one but him and Rambis are fixated on the triangle.

Nobody president/gm/or coach in the NBA is remotely interested in the triangle.

As successful as we were in the 90's did layden continue with the same approach and culture, did Isaiah follow laydens culture, did walsh follow Isaiah's culture.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Phil's biggest issue was thinking he could make Melo change. Trying to put a playoff team around this career loser to see whether it would work was a bad plan. He should have let Melo go after his contract ran out. The stupid people who care more about Melo than they care about the Knicks would kill him no matter what. At the end of the day he has wasted 3 years tryinng to win Melo over. And the Knicks will pay the price for that. Then the Noah contract was a really dumb move as well. But getting rid of Shump and JR, trading for Rolo were all moves I can support.

Trading Rolo for Rose was not a good move but it was necessary to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Incredible Sulk couldn't even take a team with two 18 point scorers one of which happens to be a top 5 rim protector, a 3 and D guy and an up and coming center to the playoffs in the Leastern conference. But yeah he is a "multiple time allstar and scoring champion" and that's what we need to focus on, because the roster is never good enough for the UltimateDiva.

If we just cut this loser from the team that would still be 5 years too late.

See your still on here 24/7 trying to rid the Knicks of the guy who shipped out your fellow girlfriend. Let me ask you something...how long have you been a Knick fan/ Melo hater. My guess is since 2011. Will you now be leaving the UK site for the Nets forum since his ass will be shipped out now that they got a real PG in Russell? Or is that Melo's fault as well.

Phil and the Triangle will live another 2 years before going into permanent retirement. The Knicks will be back to square one when he leaves. KP will run far away. That's if Phil doesn't devalue him to a point he gives him away for scraps. Like everyone else he has had. But at least we will have Noah to build around. Lmao.

I totally disagree about the Triangle going into retirement. It's CHANGING but not going into retirement! If anything Phil is locking the franchise into the Triangle more like a Cement foundation. His roster moves are moving the team into this direction with players who are Triangle type players rather than AAU types.

The shift of the team's fortunes has already started. In case you and other Phil haters haven't noticed the team is adding talent and getting younger!!! These players are USED to SYSTEM basketball and aren't egomaniacs!!! So there's less chance Phil will have to get into it with these players!!!

his building a Euro team to play in the NBA, as if these same NBA-AAU-players haven't crushed those euro players in every Olympic basketball competition since 92 (with the exception of the 04 team).

Phills foundation he's so called building will be ripped to shreds upon his departure in 2 yrs. No one but him and Rambis are fixated on the triangle.

Nobody president/gm/or coach in the NBA is remotely interested in the triangle.

As successful as we were in the 90's did layden continue with the same approach and culture, did Isaiah follow laydens culture, did walsh follow Isaiah's culture.

Regardless if they are euros or not. KP, Willy, Frank have talent and potential. Can probably play any system as well. KP & Frank also have strong defensive potential.

BRIGGS wrote:I think phil has done a good job. He hasn't been successful with free agents but I think he's realized that drafting players is the one avenue where you get a chance to put some personal tough on your personel

If the knicks are not winning these same draft picks will be moved.

Winning is the only thing that saves jobs, builds stability, protects player movement, and builds culture.

4 yrs of losing and drama, and you some of you can't understand the harsh criticism the fans and media have given phil. In this life you are judge on what you have done, not what you can do.

you don't go to a job interview and when the ask for your resume you tell them don't worry about that, all that's in the past, im coming here to start fresh.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Phil's biggest issue was thinking he could make Melo change. Trying to put a playoff team around this career loser to see whether it would work was a bad plan. He should have let Melo go after his contract ran out. The stupid people who care more about Melo than they care about the Knicks would kill him no matter what. At the end of the day he has wasted 3 years tryinng to win Melo over. And the Knicks will pay the price for that. Then the Noah contract was a really dumb move as well. But getting rid of Shump and JR, trading for Rolo were all moves I can support.

Trading Rolo for Rose was not a good move but it was necessary to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Incredible Sulk couldn't even take a team with two 18 point scorers one of which happens to be a top 5 rim protector, a 3 and D guy and an up and coming center to the playoffs in the Leastern conference. But yeah he is a "multiple time allstar and scoring champion" and that's what we need to focus on, because the roster is never good enough for the UltimateDiva.

If we just cut this loser from the team that would still be 5 years too late.

I think you are right about thinking Melo could change. He was a 12 or 13 year vet at that point and he was he was But I disagree that he tried to put a playoff team around Melo. Maybe he tried but he missed badly with the guys he went out and got. This past year the team was lacking talent. KP's first year, the roster was much less clumsy and had a shot but Melo got hurt in the Celtic game, Fish got fired, and Rambis took over. Things just fell apart.

Everyone, and i mean everyone thought the team he put together would be a playoff team last year, even all the hater new york media people thought he put together a good enough team to make the playoffs. So if all these new york media people and fans that think they know so much about basketball and putting teams together thought that team he put together was gonna be good then i guess they're/we're as dumb as Phil is.

"...If healthy", you left out one important piece of information there. Thats why people were largely against bringing in Noah and Rose. The risk of exactly what happened, happening. No one was dumb who saw that coming.

THIS!

I actually remember most of the projections being that we would be a lottery team. Hmmmm. Not sure where the "everyone, I mean everyone" is coming from!

Really?? So when we had this starting lineup going into the season most people thought we would be a lottery team?? Hahahaha you're having a memory problem.

PG--D.Rose
SG--C.Lee
SF--C.Anthony
PF--K.Porzingis
C--J.Noah

Those names don't impress me. Maybe in 2012 they would have (other than KP obviously). You'll be in for a shock if you go back to the actual prediction threads on this forum, or better yet, look at the projections the metrics boards had coming into the season.

538's projection right before the start of season: 35-47
ESPN's RPM projection: 34.7 wins
Switch analytics (haven't looked closely at this): 31 wins

Here's a good thread on our forum
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=55043

Vegas had it at 38.5.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=55112

Aside from the easy picks like Warriors, Cavs, Spurs etc.... I see a good amount of misses.

Regardless, Knicks missing players wasn't due to lack of talent. Rose played to make his numbers look good for a new contract. These are variables that go either way. If he actually bought in and looked to feed his surrounding talent a little more like he said he was going to do then we win more games. Same with Melo. He showed dad Melo potential last season. Another variable that goes either way.

Noah may have been injured but KOQ and Willy were better then expected.

Rose has always been a shoot first guard, so why would phil think he would change all of a sudden? Same with Melo. Also, there are two sides of the ball, and the Knicks were not a good defensive team at all. As much as Willy showed on on the ofensive end, he was bad defensively, same with KP who struggled guarding out on the perimeter...

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Phil's biggest issue was thinking he could make Melo change. Trying to put a playoff team around this career loser to see whether it would work was a bad plan. He should have let Melo go after his contract ran out. The stupid people who care more about Melo than they care about the Knicks would kill him no matter what. At the end of the day he has wasted 3 years tryinng to win Melo over. And the Knicks will pay the price for that. Then the Noah contract was a really dumb move as well. But getting rid of Shump and JR, trading for Rolo were all moves I can support.

Trading Rolo for Rose was not a good move but it was necessary to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Incredible Sulk couldn't even take a team with two 18 point scorers one of which happens to be a top 5 rim protector, a 3 and D guy and an up and coming center to the playoffs in the Leastern conference. But yeah he is a "multiple time allstar and scoring champion" and that's what we need to focus on, because the roster is never good enough for the UltimateDiva.

If we just cut this loser from the team that would still be 5 years too late.

I think you are right about thinking Melo could change. He was a 12 or 13 year vet at that point and he was he was But I disagree that he tried to put a playoff team around Melo. Maybe he tried but he missed badly with the guys he went out and got. This past year the team was lacking talent. KP's first year, the roster was much less clumsy and had a shot but Melo got hurt in the Celtic game, Fish got fired, and Rambis took over. Things just fell apart.

Everyone, and i mean everyone thought the team he put together would be a playoff team last year, even all the hater new york media people thought he put together a good enough team to make the playoffs. So if all these new york media people and fans that think they know so much about basketball and putting teams together thought that team he put together was gonna be good then i guess they're/we're as dumb as Phil is.

"...If healthy", you left out one important piece of information there. Thats why people were largely against bringing in Noah and Rose. The risk of exactly what happened, happening. No one was dumb who saw that coming.

THIS!

I actually remember most of the projections being that we would be a lottery team. Hmmmm. Not sure where the "everyone, I mean everyone" is coming from!

Really?? So when we had this starting lineup going into the season most people thought we would be a lottery team?? Hahahaha you're having a memory problem.

PG--D.Rose
SG--C.Lee
SF--C.Anthony
PF--K.Porzingis
C--J.Noah

Those names don't impress me. Maybe in 2012 they would have (other than KP obviously). You'll be in for a shock if you go back to the actual prediction threads on this forum, or better yet, look at the projections the metrics boards had coming into the season.

538's projection right before the start of season: 35-47
ESPN's RPM projection: 34.7 wins
Switch analytics (haven't looked closely at this): 31 wins

Here's a good thread on our forum
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=55043

Vegas had it at 38.5.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=55112

Aside from the easy picks like Warriors, Cavs, Spurs etc.... I see a good amount of misses.

Regardless, Knicks missing players wasn't due to lack of talent. Rose played to make his numbers look good for a new contract. These are variables that go either way. If he actually bought in and looked to feed his surrounding talent a little more like he said he was going to do then we win more games. Same with Melo. He showed dad Melo potential last season. Another variable that goes either way.

Noah may have been injured but KOQ and Willy were better then expected.

Rose has always been a shoot first guard, so why would phil think he would change all of a sudden? Same with Melo. Also, there are two sides of the ball, and the Knicks were not a good defensive team at all. As much as Willy showed on on the ofensive end, he was bad defensively, same with KP who struggled guarding out on the perimeter...

But he still brought a penetration and shot creation ability that we solely lacked and cried about all season the year before. Rose came in with full understanding from his own words that with Melo, KP, Lee that he could look to be somewhat more of a distributor. Now this doesn't mean 9ast per game but shouldn't have been 4.4. He has put up 6-8ast per game in the past. So with Rose penetration ability and him from his own mouth stating that he understands that he should be more of a distributor with talent like Melo and KP it should have happen. Rose career average is 6 per game. And he also has played some triangle under Thibbs with 2 lane clogging bigs. So its not like he came from a MDA style only to completely try and change his game for the Triangle.

Rose, Holiday, (#44 Dotson) was had for Grant, Calderon, Lopez. We also have 19mil freed up from Rose contract. A gamble was taken on Rose talent. We aren't getting Chris Paul of John Wall with that package.