[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Insider:Projected records... for every nba team's 16-17 season
Author Thread
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
8/24/2016  8:20 PM
Projected records, win totals, standings for every NBA team's 2016-17 season
Read
Markdown
HTML
Projected records, win totals, standings for every NBA team's 2016-17 season
by Kevin Pelton on 2016-08-12 02:07:00 UTC (original: http://insider.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/17375776/projected-records-win-totals-standings-every-nba-team-2016-17-season)

How many games will the Golden State Warriors win after adding Kevin Durant to the core of a team that went 73-9 last season? Which teams might jump from the lottery to the playoffs, and who might they replace?

To help answer these questions, here's an early look at 2016-17 NBA projections using ESPN's real plus-minus (RPM).


RPM was developed by Jeremias Engelmann and Steve Ilardi to estimate a player's on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. RPM takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors. When used along with playing time projections, it's proved to be a very accurate predictive tool overall.

Last season, these projections correctly forecast that the Portland Trail Blazers would be more competitive than expected, the Boston Celtics would maintain their second-half success from the year before and the Milwaukee Bucks would fall out of the playoffs. (They also missed on other teams, including the Toronto Raptors emerging as a top threat to the Cleveland Cavaliers in the Eastern Conference and the Houston Rockets limping along near .500.) Two years ago, RPM foresaw the rise of the Golden State Warriors.

Like last season, I've put together projected playing time based on a formula that estimates games missed based on the number missed over the past three seasons (adjusted for any offseason injuries/suspensions) and my own guesses at how rotations will shake out.

Most veteran players are rated using the multiyear, predictive version of RPM, adjusted for the typical aging curve. Newcomers to the league and players who played too little for an RPM rating are rated using their projected offensive and defensive rating from my SCHOENE projection system, which incorporates translated performance in the NCAA and professional leagues besides the NBA.

Let's take a look at the results.

Western Conference
1. Golden State Warriors
Projected wins: 66.8

Within the context of the conservative nature of win projections, which tend to be regressed heavily to the mean, a 67-win projection is remarkable. The Warriors' projection is two wins higher than the next best in the seven years I've gone back to do projections using this method: 64.9 for the 2010-11 Miami Heat, who actually won just 58 games because of the time it took their version of the Big Three to build chemistry on the court.

2. San Antonio Spurs
Projected wins: 54.5

It's a huge step downward to second place in the West. With Tim Duncan's retirement and the aging of other core players, the Spurs will be hard-pressed to stay with Golden State in the regular season as they did last season. But RPM still has them comfortably second in the West.

3. Utah Jazz
Projected wins: 47.6

This might seem like a crazy leap for a team that didn't make the playoffs last year, but remember: The Jazz actually had the fifth-best point differential in the West (plus-1.8 PPG). Ordinarily, that would translate into 46 wins, and that was despite injuries (including Dante Exum missing the entire season) and before Utah loaded up with veterans this offseason. The Jazz should be considered the favorites to win the Northwest Division.

4. L.A. Clippers
Projected wins: 46.3

Given the Clippers won 53 games last year without Blake Griffin for much of the season, a seven-win drop would be a surprise. But RPM sees several key players on the wrong side of the aging curve.

5. Houston Rockets
Projected wins: 45.8

RPM projects the Rockets to be a top-five offense next year, but they'll still struggle to reach 45 wins if their defense is worse than an optimistic projection of 16th in the league.

6. Oklahoma City Thunder
Projected wins: 45.6

Even without Durant, RPM forecasts the Thunder in the mix for home-court advantage in the West thanks to star point guard Russell Westbrook and a deep cast of young role players.

7. Portland Trail Blazers
Projected wins: 44.5

After reaching the second round of the playoffs and adding Festus Ezeli and Evan Turner this offseason, the Blazers hope to take the next step in their development. RPM sees them as about the same team as 2015-16, when they won 44 games but finished fifth in a weaker West.

8. Denver Nuggets
Projected wins: 40.4

Quietly, the Nuggets have assembled an intriguing group of young talent (led by RPM favorite Nikola Jokic, projected for plus-5.0 points per 100 possessions) with a few veterans in tow. Even with Danilo Gallinari projected for just 50 games, internal development could be enough to push Denver into surprising playoff contention.

9. Memphis Grizzlies
Projected wins: 39.4

Yes, the Grizzlies strengthened their starting lineup by signing Chandler Parsons, but their bench is incredibly thin and several starters (including Parsons) are major injury risks. Gulp.

10. Sacramento Kings
Projected wins: 37.7

The Kings have one of the biggest discrepancies of any team between their projection in ESPN's summer forecast (30 wins, 13th in the West) and by RPM, which sees Sacramento deep in average talent around DeMarcus Cousins.

11. Minnesota Timberwolves
Projected wins: 37.1

Remember, RPM projections don't factor in coaching, and the arrival of Tom Thibodeau makes the Timberwolves overwhelmingly likely to outperform their projected ranking of 27th in defensive rating.

12. New Orleans Pelicans
Projected wins: 37.0

New Orleans is deeper after shopping for midtier free agents this summer, but RPM projects just three players on the roster to be better than league average: Anthony Davis, Jrue Holiday and newcomer Solomon Hill.

13. Dallas Mavericks
Projected wins: 34.3

Might this be the year that coach Rick Carlisle, veteran big man Dirk Nowitzki and a cast of newcomers can't get the Mavericks to the playoffs? RPM says yes, since swapping Parsons (plus-1.3) for Harrison Barnes (minus-0.7) grades as a major downgrade.

14. Phoenix Suns
Projected wins: 29.2

The Suns figure to be a bit more competitive with the return of RPM favorite Eric Bledsoe (plus-2.2) but are still too young to compete in the West.

15. L.A. Lakers
Projected wins: 24.3

Scraped at insider2text.xyz, brought to you by HeheStreams — No Bull****

Despite their offseason additions of No. 2 pick Brandon Ingram and veterans Luol Deng and Timofey Mozgov, RPM has the Lakers with the league's fewest projected wins.

Eastern Conference
1. Cleveland Cavaliers
Projected wins: 52.1

While the Cavaliers are still solidly tops in the East, their projection is down from last year's 57 wins because RPM takes a dim view of Kyrie Irving's defense and considers Matthew Dellavedova (plus-1.2 projection) a considerable loss as Irving's backup. Note that this projection assumes J.R. Smith ultimately re-signs in Cleveland.

2. Boston Celtics
Projected wins: 49.8

Last year, RPM nailed the Celtics' 48-win finish, though the Raptors jumped ahead of Boston to take second in the East. Now, RPM sees the Celtics taking a modest step forward with the addition of Al Horford.

3. Toronto Raptors
Projected wins: 48.8

After getting career years from guards DeMar DeRozan and Kyle Lowry, the Raptors are likely to regress to the pack this year, but fans can take solace in Toronto having outperformed its RPM projection each of the past three seasons.

4. Detroit Pistons
Projected wins: 47.5

While most of the East's middle class took a step backward this offseason, the Pistons should improve by virtue of upgrading at backup point guard and center, and RPM sees them as the third team in a tier with Boston and Toronto.

5. Washington Wizards
Projected wins: 41.4

There's a big gap between the top four in the East and a pack of teams projected fifth through about 11th. The Wizards lead that group after going 18-13 after last year's All-Star break.

6. Charlotte Hornets
Projected wins: 41.0

Though the return of Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (plus-2.0) should be a boost, RPM doesn't like the Hornets' new backup backcourt of Ramon Sessions (minus-2.4) and Marco Belinelli (minus-3.7).

7. Milwaukee Bucks
Projected wins: 40.9

The Bucks have oscillated between wildly under- and overperforming projections. If that trend holds, this should be the year for exceeding expectations, and RPM views both Dellavedova and Mirza Teletovic (minus-0.6) as upgrades.

8. Indiana Pacers
Projected wins: 38.9

By virtue of having one of the East's top players in Paul George and a promising youngster in Myles Turner, the Pacers are getting contender buzz in the East. RPM is not so optimistic, viewing the swap of George Hill (plus-0.8) for Jeff Teague (minus-0.6) as a downgrade.

9. Atlanta Hawks
Projected wins: 38.6

RPM has had a tough time forecasting the Hawks, pegging Atlanta for near-.500 records each of the past two seasons, when the Hawks have actually finished second and fourth in the East. This time, Atlanta may have to beat its projection to make the playoffs.

10. Miami Heat
Projected wins: 38.3

Even with Chris Bosh in the lineup, the Heat may have a tough time making the playoffs after losing Luol Deng, Joe Johnson and Dwyane Wade. Without Bosh, Miami's projection drops to 35.2 wins and 12th in the East.

11. Chicago Bulls
Projected wins: 37.8

RPM doesn't view adding Wade (minus-1.3) and Rajon Rondo (minus-1.4) as upgrades for Chicago, and that's before even taking the fit issues they create into account.

12. Orlando Magic
Projected wins: 36.2

The Magic spent big on free agents D.J. Augustin (minus-1.6) and Jeff Green (minus-2.1), neither of whom RPM sees helping Orlando much on the court this season.

13. New York Knicks
Projected wins: 34.7

The Knicks would certainly be disappointed if they improved just three wins after spending freely this summer, but RPM rates Derrick Rose (minus-2.3) as a replacement-level contributor at this point and is skeptical of New York's weak bench.

14. Brooklyn Nets
Projected wins: 28.8

A full season from second-year wing Rondae Hollis-Jefferson (plus-1.2), along with improved play at point guard with Jeremy Lin (minus-0.3), should make the Nets a bit more competitive this season.

15. Philadelphia 76ers
Projected wins: 24.5

Even with conservative projections for rookies Ben Simmons (minus-1.9) and Joel Embiid (minus-1.4), the Sixers figure to take a massive step forward this season despite still being projected for the East's worst record.


Scraped at insider2text.xyz, brought to you by HeheStreams — No Bull****


http://insider.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/17375776/projected-records-win-totals-standings-every-nba-team-2016-17-season
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
AUTOADVERT
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
8/25/2016  12:27 AM
Yeah i'm pretty darned sure that this is one Knicks prediction that they won't get right. For one thing the top of the Knicks rotation is going to be pretty darned tough to handle. Just on PRIDE ALONE this team will beat this prediction. Last season with a team that was less talented not as well coached, they managed to play .500 ball after 44 games before crumbling. I think this roster is vastly superior to that roster in many ways, not the least of which is the experience and overall functionality. Also the balance and fit for Hornacek's uptempo style of play.

Also what is this stuff about a weak bench? Knicks top 7 rotation is pretty strong.

1.  Rose
2. Lee
3. Melo
4. KP
5. Noah
6. Jennings
7. Thomas
------------
8. Holiday
9. KOQ
10. Willy
11. Randle
12. Kuz
13. Ndour
14. Plumlee
15. Baker?
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
8/25/2016  6:52 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/25/2016  6:53 AM
Yeah, any statistical projection model that takes into account recent history of our players is going to have a win total that Knicks fans won't want to look at. The models aren't going to assume that our key players will be healthier than in the past or that Hornacek will bring out the best in the players.
StarksEwing1
Posts: 32671
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/28/2012
Member: #4451

8/25/2016  7:22 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, any statistical projection model that takes into account recent history of our players is going to have a win total that Knicks fans won't want to look at. The models aren't going to assume that our key players will be healthier than in the past or that Hornacek will bring out the best in the players.
Exactly. I think some fans assume that they are just bashing the knicks but they are just going by recent history which hasn't been pretty. Now I expect to win 42-45 but that's only if everyone is healthy the whole way which probably is a longshot
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
8/25/2016  7:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/25/2016  7:51 AM
It's interesting that they're predicting 39 wins gets you in the playoffs in the east. The 8th seed had 44 wins last year.
newyorknewyork
Posts: 29862
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
8/25/2016  8:45 AM
nixluva wrote:Yeah i'm pretty darned sure that this is one Knicks prediction that they won't get right. For one thing the top of the Knicks rotation is going to be pretty darned tough to handle. Just on PRIDE ALONE this team will beat this prediction. Last season with a team that was less talented not as well coached, they managed to play .500 ball after 44 games before crumbling. I think this roster is vastly superior to that roster in many ways, not the least of which is the experience and overall functionality. Also the balance and fit for Hornacek's uptempo style of play.

Also what is this stuff about a weak bench? Knicks top 7 rotation is pretty strong.

1.  Rose
2. Lee
3. Melo
4. KP
5. Noah
6. Jennings
7. Thomas
------------
8. Holiday
9. KOQ
10. Willy
11. Randle
12. Kuz
13. Ndour
14. Plumlee
15. Baker?

I think Holiday is going to contribute some good mins as well pushing that number to 8. Hopefully one of the prospects like Willie, Kuz, Ndour step up as well.

Looking at it from 10 down, all rookies and one second yr player. The pipeline is in effect. Players that can grow together for many seasons. If players get injured and we struggle then we have our draft pick and many young players will get a look to see what they got.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
8/25/2016  9:25 AM
I wonder what the Vegas odds are on the Knicks winning their division? Or making the playoffs? Might be a bet with a decent payoff...
¿ △ ?
Knixkik
Posts: 34904
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
8/25/2016  10:20 AM
crzymdups wrote:I wonder what the Vegas odds are on the Knicks winning their division? Or making the playoffs? Might be a bet with a decent payoff...

My guess is it will be much higher than this ESPN prediction. Vegas doesn't really go off of advanced metric models, they go more off common sense from what I can tell.

crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
8/25/2016  10:27 AM
Knixkik wrote:
crzymdups wrote:I wonder what the Vegas odds are on the Knicks winning their division? Or making the playoffs? Might be a bet with a decent payoff...

My guess is it will be much higher than this ESPN prediction. Vegas doesn't really go off of advanced metric models, they go more off common sense from what I can tell.

Right.

From what I can tell Vegas has given the Knicks the 8th best odds to win the East. That sounds more fair as a starting point, at least to me.


ODDS TO WIN THE 2016-17 EASTERN CONFERENCE (6/1/17)
Team Odds
Cleveland Cavaliers 1/3
Boston Celtics 8/1
Toronto Raptors 19/1
Atlanta Hawks 30/1
Chicago Bulls 30/1
Indiana Pacers 35/1
Detroit Pistons 40/1
New York Knicks 50/1
Washington Wizards 50/1
Milwaukee Bucks 55/1
Miami Heat 60/1
Orlando Magic 60/1
Charlotte Hornets 100/1
Philadelphia 76ers 150/1
Brooklyn Nets 500/1
¿ △ ?
Knixkik
Posts: 34904
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
8/25/2016  10:35 AM
crzymdups wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
crzymdups wrote:I wonder what the Vegas odds are on the Knicks winning their division? Or making the playoffs? Might be a bet with a decent payoff...

My guess is it will be much higher than this ESPN prediction. Vegas doesn't really go off of advanced metric models, they go more off common sense from what I can tell.

Right.

From what I can tell Vegas has given the Knicks the 8th best odds to win the East. That sounds more fair as a starting point, at least to me.


ODDS TO WIN THE 2016-17 EASTERN CONFERENCE (6/1/17)
Team Odds
Cleveland Cavaliers 1/3
Boston Celtics 8/1
Toronto Raptors 19/1
Atlanta Hawks 30/1
Chicago Bulls 30/1
Indiana Pacers 35/1
Detroit Pistons 40/1
New York Knicks 50/1
Washington Wizards 50/1
Milwaukee Bucks 55/1
Miami Heat 60/1
Orlando Magic 60/1
Charlotte Hornets 100/1
Philadelphia 76ers 150/1
Brooklyn Nets 500/1

So Vegas probably has the Knicks going approx .500 this season, which for a betting person is about right. If ESPN predictions were the Vegas predictions, people would take them all day. But that just isn't realistic. Nothing about ESPN is accurate generally.

ChuckBuck
Posts: 28851
Alba Posts: 11
Joined: 1/3/2012
Member: #3806
USA
8/25/2016  10:41 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/25/2016  10:42 AM
Pretty fair projected record for the Knicks. None of the additions (Noah, Rose, Lee, Jennings, Mindaugas, Willy) scream contender considering their injury history or limited history, and until proven otherwise have the Knicks on the outside looking in.

I'm cautiously optimistic that this 2016-2017 team will greatly overachieve to a 40-45 win playoff season, but realistically all it takes is 1 injury or 1 lockerroom incident or media diversion to collapse this fragile ship to lottery depths.

Knixkik
Posts: 34904
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
8/25/2016  10:53 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/25/2016  10:54 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:Pretty fair projected record for the Knicks. None of the additions (Noah, Rose, Lee, Jennings, Mindaugas, Willy) scream contender considering their injury history or limited history, and until proven otherwise have the Knicks on the outside looking in.

I'm cautiously optimistic that this 2016-2017 team will greatly overachieve to a 40-45 win playoff season, but realistically all it takes is 1 injury or 1 lockerroom incident or media diversion to collapse this fragile ship to lottery depths.

Greatly overachieve would be 50+ wins. As we have discussed here, common sense projections (such as Vegas) expect the Knicks to be in the hunt for 8th and finish in the 40 win range. That's the expectation. "Greatly overachieve" would not be in that range. 45 wins would be a slight overachieve no doubt, but otherwise i agree, this group is fragile and a lot of things have to go right.

ChuckBuck
Posts: 28851
Alba Posts: 11
Joined: 1/3/2012
Member: #3806
USA
8/25/2016  11:05 AM
Knixkik wrote:this group is fragile and a lot of things have to go right.

Yup. Anybody expecting or hoping for 50 wins or above this season, will most likely need to increase/decrease their dosage of meds.

Gots to calibrate to reality sometimes...

markvmc
Posts: 21783
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/6/2008
Member: #1797

8/25/2016  11:06 AM
Are there really only 3 players left over from last year's roster? You'd have to think it will take a good few games for the team to gel. So even if, ultimately, they turn out to be as good a team as the optimistic predictions suggest, teething difficulties at the outset will likely knock some games off those predicted win totals.
Knixkik
Posts: 34904
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
8/25/2016  11:22 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
Knixkik wrote:this group is fragile and a lot of things have to go right.

Yup. Anybody expecting or hoping for 50 wins or above this season, will most likely need to increase/decrease their dosage of meds.

Gots to calibrate to reality sometimes...

50 wins is everything going right, and everyone being healthy with no hiccups. It's unlikely. 45 wins is a reasonable expectation with good health and chemistry and is a good target for success, in my opinion. Ultimately, the goal should be making the playoffs and avoiding Cleveland in the first round, meaning 7 seed or higher. I have confidence in this team, healthy, in a 7 game series against someone other than Cleveland.

CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
8/25/2016  11:42 AM
markvmc wrote:Are there really only 3 players left over from last year's roster? You'd have to think it will take a good few games for the team to gel. So even if, ultimately, they turn out to be as good a team as the optimistic predictions suggest, teething difficulties at the outset will likely knock some games off those predicted win totals.
I think you are right about needing time to gel but I believe they brought back 5 guys from last year. Sasha, KOQ, Thomas, KP, and Melo.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
8/25/2016  2:47 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
crzymdups wrote:I wonder what the Vegas odds are on the Knicks winning their division? Or making the playoffs? Might be a bet with a decent payoff...

My guess is it will be much higher than this ESPN prediction. Vegas doesn't really go off of advanced metric models, they go more off common sense from what I can tell.


Well, I posted this a while in another thread but last year the win share projection came closer to the actual team win total in 19 cases, vegas came closer in 10, and 1 was tied. (It was either win shares or 538's method - it's been a few months since I posted this.)

It was 538, I think, and you said that if a prediction was within 10 games it was "close"... so if the Knicks win 44 games, does that mean ESPN's prediction was "close"?

¿ △ ?
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
8/25/2016  2:52 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/25/2016  2:52 PM
crzymdups wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
crzymdups wrote:I wonder what the Vegas odds are on the Knicks winning their division? Or making the playoffs? Might be a bet with a decent payoff...

My guess is it will be much higher than this ESPN prediction. Vegas doesn't really go off of advanced metric models, they go more off common sense from what I can tell.


Well, I posted this a while in another thread but last year the win share projection came closer to the actual team win total in 19 cases, vegas came closer in 10, and 1 was tied. (It was either win shares or 538's method - it's been a few months since I posted this.)

It was 538, I think, and you said that if a prediction was within 10 games it was "close"... so if the Knicks win 44 games, does that mean ESPN's prediction was "close"?


Oh, OK. I deleted the comment because I wanted to find the thread and then post my comment. But I shouldn't delete once I post since other people reply. I think I called it "slightly close" because it was closer than most fans are. I was calling within 6 wins close. But the point is it was close enough that you could beat most fans, beat the Vegas odds, and make money last year.
markvmc
Posts: 21783
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/6/2008
Member: #1797

8/25/2016  2:57 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
markvmc wrote:Are there really only 3 players left over from last year's roster? You'd have to think it will take a good few games for the team to gel. So even if, ultimately, they turn out to be as good a team as the optimistic predictions suggest, teething difficulties at the outset will likely knock some games off those predicted win totals.
I think you are right about needing time to gel but I believe they brought back 5 guys from last year. Sasha, KOQ, Thomas, KP, and Melo.

Thanks. Somehow missed Sasha and Thomas from the list above.

Bernard30
Posts: 20309
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/23/2005
Member: #973
8/25/2016  3:04 PM
The website I bet with have the Knicks at 43.5 +105 I WISH it was 34...
"It was good," Curry said. "I killed Malik, Jerome. The usual suspects. It felt good."
Insider:Projected records... for every nba team's 16-17 season

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy