Uptown wrote:

TMS wrote:seems like now we're dealing with a kid who's confidence has been completely shot... we're now in rehab mode w/Mozgov.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/scared_mozgov_bides_time_GU0mI4Mf8C0d7Ypz1jYA3L

'Scared' Mozgov bides time on Knicks bench

Russian rookie center Timofey Mozgov has been banished to Siberia -- or Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni's doghouse. It's really the same thing.

And as Mozgov has fallen from grace and the Knicks' rotation, so has his confidence.

"I have to stop worrying too much on court," Mozgov told The Post in a rare interview. "[I'm] scared a little bit. Because it's my first year, a rookie, I have to be more confident."

When D'Antoni falls out of love with a player, he means it. Mozgov has not played non-garbage-time minutes in three weeks. During training camp, D'Antoni extensively praised Mozgov and handed him the starting center job entering the season.

D'Antoni's decision not to use the 7-foot-1 center Thursday in Orlando against towering Magic center Dwight Howard with Amar'e Stoudemire in foul trouble was an eye-opening indications of D'Antoni's lack of trust.

"We already made a decision [on Mozgov]," D'Antoni said. "We can't be like, 'Let's try this today.' "

Mozgov looked shaky on both ends during his last days in the rotation. He bobbled passes, couldn't snatch gettable rebounds and missed dunks. His English keeps improving, but his game has regressed.

"I've still got to learn," Mozgov said. "I've still got to feel the game. It is still different from Europe. I will change something. I think we need more time. I don't know how long this will be. I'm hoping not long."

The coaching staff feels it will go back to Mozgov at some point this season. The investment was heavy -- a three-year, $9.7 million contract -- to help finance his buyout.

But D'Antoni said he likes his short eight-man rotation, experimenting with using 6-foot-8 Shawne Williams as a backup center. The staff feels Mozgov is feeling the pressure.

D'Antoni said, "We pushed him too hard, too soon."

To his credit, Mozgov is not complaining in either language. He explained that two years ago with his Russian team, Khimki, he had a fight with the coach and almost never played. He said this time is different.

"When I came here, I didn't think about playing too much or scoring too much," Mozgov said. "I just came here to think about my first season, to be ready to learn."

Whats your read on this TMS? I'm reading it as Moz being scared from day, which would explain the reason why dude couldn't catch simple post passes, early fouls, 10 foot bricks, etc. I'm not sure I can blame MDA from yanking a player if he is mentally and visibly scared on the court.

my read is that the kid was obviously not ready to be thrust into a starting rotation & now his confidence is completely shot... i'm not blaming MDA for yanking Moz from the rotation... i'm saying i don't think he was ever ready to be a starter to begin with & his development has suffered as a result... we're now in the "restore this kid's confidence" mode w/this kid... ironic thing is we're in the same predicament w/AR but for the complete opposite reason... too bad there's no written guidebook on how to handle young talent... i realize every kid needs to be handled differently to get positive results & not trying to pretend like i know better than MDA... just sucks that we're looking desperately for guys to contribute off the bench, namely a backup C, & we have to deal with 2 kids who have the talent to fill that role but zero confidence right now... how do u get these kids to regain their confidence w/o playing them? that is MDA's quandary now.

BRIGGS wrote:

holfresh wrote:It's tough to play a center who can't catch the ball and doesn't rebound...I really wonder who made the call on this signing...This signing as small as it is could have cap ramifications as it relates to re-signing Chandler...Donnie needs to find someplace to park this contract...But I read here somewhere he can be cut at the end of the season without his contract impacting the Knicks going forward..Hope it's true...

Turriaf is like a 3 or or probably 4th big. If you have Turriaf as a top 2 option--you arent going very far. Well see this more and more as we play more games. You cant have a big guy avg 4-2 in 20 minutes--I dont give a F what kind of D he is playing his 4-2 will be a net -what good team ever had a 2nd option big guy who avg 4-2 and was good?

That said may all be true...He still gives more productive minutes than Mosgov...Sad, who though the Knicks could go into the season with this combo in the middle...Turiaf just isn't strong/healthy enough to log major minutes...

nixluva wrote:

cheers wrote:

Uptown wrote:

TMS wrote:seems like now we're dealing with a kid who's confidence has been completely shot... we're now in rehab mode w/Mozgov.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/scared_mozgov_bides_time_GU0mI4Mf8C0d7Ypz1jYA3L

'Scared' Mozgov bides time on Knicks bench

Russian rookie center Timofey Mozgov has been banished to Siberia -- or Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni's doghouse. It's really the same thing.

And as Mozgov has fallen from grace and the Knicks' rotation, so has his confidence.

"I have to stop worrying too much on court," Mozgov told The Post in a rare interview. "[I'm] scared a little bit. Because it's my first year, a rookie, I have to be more confident."

When D'Antoni falls out of love with a player, he means it. Mozgov has not played non-garbage-time minutes in three weeks. During training camp, D'Antoni extensively praised Mozgov and handed him the starting center job entering the season.

D'Antoni's decision not to use the 7-foot-1 center Thursday in Orlando against towering Magic center Dwight Howard with Amar'e Stoudemire in foul trouble was an eye-opening indications of D'Antoni's lack of trust.

"We already made a decision [on Mozgov]," D'Antoni said. "We can't be like, 'Let's try this today.' "

Mozgov looked shaky on both ends during his last days in the rotation. He bobbled passes, couldn't snatch gettable rebounds and missed dunks. His English keeps improving, but his game has regressed.

"I've still got to learn," Mozgov said. "I've still got to feel the game. It is still different from Europe. I will change something. I think we need more time. I don't know how long this will be. I'm hoping not long."

The coaching staff feels it will go back to Mozgov at some point this season. The investment was heavy -- a three-year, $9.7 million contract -- to help finance his buyout.

But D'Antoni said he likes his short eight-man rotation, experimenting with using 6-foot-8 Shawne Williams as a backup center. The staff feels Mozgov is feeling the pressure.

D'Antoni said, "We pushed him too hard, too soon."

To his credit, Mozgov is not complaining in either language. He explained that two years ago with his Russian team, Khimki, he had a fight with the coach and almost never played. He said this time is different.

"When I came here, I didn't think about playing too much or scoring too much," Mozgov said. "I just came here to think about my first season, to be ready to learn."

Whats your read on this TMS? I'm reading it as Moz being scared from day, which would explain the reason why dude couldn't catch simple post passes, early fouls, 10 foot bricks, etc. I'm not sure I can blame MDA from yanking a player if he is mentally and visibly scared on the court.

why does mda leave a wake of broken mental players you know timo can run and clog up the lanes of the opposing team, so use him that way. ar likes to run block rebound and go to the basket on breaks, so use him that way.

i remember seeing steph shoot threes like crazy for mda, that was steph trying to fit into the mda system. steph likes to drive to the basket. so it was kind of obsurb to see him keep taking those long ball shots. but with mda, you play his way. period.

honestly mda basketball is easy to read and counter. so far it is SSOL with midgets + amar'e iso. stop the madness! it is two seperate styles of play that is not fitting. this is not team ball. its mda ball.

It's easy to make these comments when the team isn't even a finished product. If we had Melo and a good backup PF/C and won with this system what the hell would you be saying then? Let's try to be fare about all of this. Phil Jax wins cuz he's had great players, not cuz he runs the Triangle. It's all cool for a coach to coach his philosophy and to feel comfortable with attacking teams using his preferred methods, but it always comes down to having great talent.

Once you have enough great talent it almost doesn't matter what system you run. What Mike's system does tend to do is help his teams to overachieve. So when they don't win it all then guys like you can bash him as if he did something wrong. He knows and we all know this isn't the best team in the East, but he's doing the best he can to get wins until we can try to improve the roster a bit. I Guarantee you that if we had Lebron and Wade running this system we'd win a lot more games. They didn't even have a system in Miami. They were lost to start the year . Couldn't figure out how to play with each other. They kind of figured something out along the way. They just have overwhelming individual talent.

i'm trying to understand what you're saying here... so Lebron & Wade are the reasons why the Miami Heat are good, & it has nothing to do w/the system they run or the coach who's coaching them? but if the Knicks do well, it's because of MDA's system? can i ask you to clarify this? that is unless you're gonna fly off the handle again.

Russian rookie center Timofey Mozgov has been banished to Siberia -- or Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni's doghouse. It's really the same thing.
And as Mozgov has fallen from grace and the Knicks' rotation, so has his confidence.
"I have to stop worrying too much on court," Mozgov told The Post in a rare interview. "[I'm] scared a little bit. Because it's my first year, a rookie, I have to be more confident."

When D'Antoni falls out of love with a player, he means it. Mozgov has not played non-garbage-time minutes in three weeks. During training camp, D'Antoni extensively praised Mozgov and handed him the starting center job entering the season.
D'Antoni's decision not to use the 7-foot-1 center Thursday in Orlando against towering Magic center Dwight Howard with Amar'e Stoudemire in foul trouble was an eye-opening indications of D'Antoni's lack of trust.

"We already made a decision [on Mozgov]," D'Antoni said. "We can't be like, 'Let's try this today.' "

since this thread turning into a discussion about Cs and mda. read that. wtf. get this coach out of here already. it is either midget ball or give turiaf the starting C job because all our other bigs are in the out-house. fug this man. after you play for mda you need therapy later.

Uptown wrote:

TMS wrote:

Uptown wrote:

TMS wrote:seems like now we're dealing with a kid who's confidence has been completely shot... we're now in rehab mode w/Mozgov.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/scared_mozgov_bides_time_GU0mI4Mf8C0d7Ypz1jYA3L

'Scared' Mozgov bides time on Knicks bench

Russian rookie center Timofey Mozgov has been banished to Siberia -- or Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni's doghouse. It's really the same thing.

And as Mozgov has fallen from grace and the Knicks' rotation, so has his confidence.

"I have to stop worrying too much on court," Mozgov told The Post in a rare interview. "[I'm] scared a little bit. Because it's my first year, a rookie, I have to be more confident."

When D'Antoni falls out of love with a player, he means it. Mozgov has not played non-garbage-time minutes in three weeks. During training camp, D'Antoni extensively praised Mozgov and handed him the starting center job entering the season.

D'Antoni's decision not to use the 7-foot-1 center Thursday in Orlando against towering Magic center Dwight Howard with Amar'e Stoudemire in foul trouble was an eye-opening indications of D'Antoni's lack of trust.

"We already made a decision [on Mozgov]," D'Antoni said. "We can't be like, 'Let's try this today.' "

Mozgov looked shaky on both ends during his last days in the rotation. He bobbled passes, couldn't snatch gettable rebounds and missed dunks. His English keeps improving, but his game has regressed.

"I've still got to learn," Mozgov said. "I've still got to feel the game. It is still different from Europe. I will change something. I think we need more time. I don't know how long this will be. I'm hoping not long."

The coaching staff feels it will go back to Mozgov at some point this season. The investment was heavy -- a three-year, $9.7 million contract -- to help finance his buyout.

But D'Antoni said he likes his short eight-man rotation, experimenting with using 6-foot-8 Shawne Williams as a backup center. The staff feels Mozgov is feeling the pressure.

D'Antoni said, "We pushed him too hard, too soon."

To his credit, Mozgov is not complaining in either language. He explained that two years ago with his Russian team, Khimki, he had a fight with the coach and almost never played. He said this time is different.

"When I came here, I didn't think about playing too much or scoring too much," Mozgov said. "I just came here to think about my first season, to be ready to learn."

Whats your read on this TMS? I'm reading it as Moz being scared from day, which would explain the reason why dude couldn't catch simple post passes, early fouls, 10 foot bricks, etc. I'm not sure I can blame MDA from yanking a player if he is mentally and visibly scared on the court.

my read is that the kid was obviously not ready to be thrust into a starting rotation & now his confidence is completely shot... i'm not blaming MDA for yanking Moz from the rotation... i'm saying i don't think he was ever ready to be a starter to begin with & his development has suffered as a result... we're now in the "restore this kid's confidence" mode w/this kid... ironic thing is we're in the same predicament w/AR but for the complete opposite reason... too bad there's no written guidebook on how to handle young talent... i realize every kid needs to be handled differently to get positive results & not trying to pretend like i know better than MDA... just sucks that we're looking desperately for guys to contribute off the bench, namely a backup C, & we have to deal with 2 kids who have the talent to fill that role but zero confidence right now... how do u get these kids to regain their confidence w/o playing them? that is MDA's quandary now.

Totally agree with the bolded part of your statement about the kids gaining confidence, mainly Randolph. Moz has done nothing to impress me and is clearly not ready, but I would like to see Randolph get a another shot (to gain some confidence), especially when you consider how small we are not to mention we haven't exactly been tearing it up over the last week. Theres no 8 game win streak excuse to use as a reason to keep Randolph out of the mix because you dont want to 'mess with the good chemistry.' Turiaf is still hurt, and Williams has come back down to earth. As you say, none of us have a clue what Randolph is or isn't doing at practice. Hopefully MDA and the coaching staff is defining and outlining a role for him so he knows what he has to do. Now, if he still cant follow instructions at this point, then chalk it up as lost cause and move hm.

i think that's the main difference between the 2... the fact that AR has already shown he can produce at the NBA level... Mozgov was given an opportunity & failed to show anything other than the fact he wasn't ready... it just kills me how we're always talking about adding a rebounder who can play some minutes at the C position, & we have an athletic, talented 7 footer on the bench who has already shown star potential when he's been given the opportunity.

i mean look at some of these game logs this kid has put up... statlines like 28 & 13 don't happen by accident... how the hell does anyone argue that he's not capable of contributing right now?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=3455&year=2010

can we please stop messing around with these small lineups & just start Turiaf now? this makes us now 7W-1L this year w/Turiaf starting after tonight... what more proof do u need Mike?

VDesai wrote:Don't understand how there are some people on this site saying that we need to push him out of the rotation. It would be nice to have another big like him, but he clearly is a big part of this team right now. He plays well within the flow of the offense with his passing and finishing and its obvious the impact he has defensively. He shut down Aldridge tonight when the Blazers really needed Aldridge.

seriously, he adds so much energy to this team it's not even funny... how many fastbreaks did he start tonight w/his post defense on Aldridge? plus that hustle play blocked shot off that crazy sequence when Camby got that hustle play stop on the other end diving into the stands & started the break the other way... u don't get that kind of stuff from anyone else on this team.

also thought he was excellent off the PnR as well.

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:Don't understand how there are some people on this site saying that we need to push him out of the rotation. It would be nice to have another big like him, but he clearly is a big part of this team right now. He plays well within the flow of the offense with his passing and finishing and its obvious the impact he has defensively. He shut down Aldridge tonight when the Blazers really needed Aldridge.

i haven't seen one post like that really.

there was an entire thread about it

VDesai wrote:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=37535

****ing idiots

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=37535

****ing idiots

to be fair, it's not so much that he should be out of the rotation, but rather if we are going to defend the paint and win against elite teams there is no way that Turiaf would survive as our C.

but do we have better options? Shawne Williams starting at PF is not going to win us games against elite teams either... when Gallo comes back Wilson needs to go back to being our 6th man so we have some consistent scoring off our bench & Williams can go back to the role he was excelling in earlier in the season off the bench... Turiaf adds balance to the starting 5... i doubt he goes off again like he did tonight anytime soon, but u see the energy, hustle & defense he brings to the floor that leads to easy baskets, often to transition points.