franco12 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:I'd agree- and I'm wondering if he shouldn't be starting.

He probably has the kind of talent that could get him to an All Star game or to an NBA All something team, or 6th Man.

Of everyone we added, he has the most upside, and we'll probably see him leave at the end of the year for a huge payday somewhere else

why not just pay him? I mentioned that last night.. he could have a great season and be a one and done, but if he loves it here, is playing great, likes Fisher etc etc why not just resign him?

Agreed. You pay him especially if he likes it here and has proven himself here in New York. The old Knick way is to chase other teams former stars. Usually over the hill, injured or malcontents

I'm all for paying him.

I just worry that- and as a Knick fan and Met fan- we'll want a different shiney new toy in the off season and be too cheap to pay him the money he will see on the market.

I wonder if he and his agent were ever open to signing a longer deal?

Yup but imagine the outrage on this board if we gave him a bigger deal. People were outraged at $5mol per and thought he was only worth the risk of trying to harness his talent at league minimum salary.

As for the Mets Murphy will be back. He is kind of the heart and soul of the team now. Their own Derek Jeter. Albeit he will never keep this up. It's not humanly possible but the fact that he elevated his game in the post season when it matters most and he's a been a lifelong Met. Only Wright has been here longer and he started his decline years ago even before he signed the new deal. Baseball sabermetritians don't believe in Murphy but he is proving that there are key intangibles that they often over look when evaluated based on numbers only. Like on base percentage, WHIP etc.

As for a experts the Mets will really have to do their due dillegence on whether to bring him back. He has been exposed. Mets fans are seeing why Oakland, Boston & Detroit let him go. Despite all his power he has a lot of holes. Discipline at the plate and in the field and general lack of focus to be great. It looked like he was putting it all together but he may never change. Mets have to determine if he's worth a mo green deal. Will he tighten up his game or digress with all that money.

The Mets have to weigh their options. I would resign him because he already had success here instead Going after the shiney new toy with multi year deals to the likes of Jason Bay or Michael Cuddyer.

Dwil choose to be here so buy in to the system is a given. Same for any of the new guys.
Look at it objectively it was an opportunity for both knicks and dwil to make good and see what happens. If he shines, we pay him. If he shines, we don't need a new toy in the offseason.
Its logical, we created upside potential in a year we don't have a pick. So Dwil does good, he'll eat some cap but that's ok, he proved himself valuable. He should want to stay as he did this HERE.

Im sure most of us would rather have locked him up cheap, had him surge and then had more money to spend on others. Maybe that was never to happen, and perhaps it was Dwill and his agent who belive in themselves and did not want to do that.
Basically good teams don't have much money to spend and why would he want to go to a ****ty team again? Don't get me wrong, all things equal he'd be a fool to not accept a max contract but is that really going to be there for him?
And if he is that kind of player who was a key cog in getting us to the playoffs, then maybe he is that guy.

Will some of you cry that we blew it? Well, be fair, even the media questioned it.

Upside potential and the "Culture" enhanced a players career. That's a big deal and if its for real other players will want to come here.

We found our Kwai Leonard? Price is 16mil a year. Dwil knows the cap going up.

Melo, Dwil and KP. Is that our big three?

The guy has talent and he's a fit. It doesn't really matter that he's a tweener because he Melo is a tweener too. So if they play together their weaknesses become strengths. Similarly, if he comes off the pine he's assuming Melo's role and everything is built around Melo, who is a similar player to Williams. He works here... at least on the surface.

But Nalod is right, it is a long season, and he has to put together more than one complete season before he shakes the "bust" label off

Nalod wrote:Lets not get to excited by game one. Its a long season.

Dwil choose to be here so buy in to the system is a given. Same for any of the new guys.
Look at it objectively it was an opportunity for both knicks and dwil to make good and see what happens. If he shines, we pay him. If he shines, we don't need a new toy in the offseason.
Its logical, we created upside potential in a year we don't have a pick. So Dwil does good, he'll eat some cap but that's ok, he proved himself valuable. He should want to stay as he did this HERE.

Im sure most of us would rather have locked him up cheap, had him surge and then had more money to spend on others. Maybe that was never to happen, and perhaps it was Dwill and his agent who belive in themselves and did not want to do that.
Basically good teams don't have much money to spend and why would he want to go to a ****ty team again? Don't get me wrong, all things equal he'd be a fool to not accept a max contract but is that really going to be there for him?
And if he is that kind of player who was a key cog in getting us to the playoffs, then maybe he is that guy.

Will some of you cry that we blew it? Well, be fair, even the media questioned it.

Upside potential and the "Culture" enhanced a players career. That's a big deal and if its for real other players will want to come here.

We found our Kwai Leonard? Price is 16mil a year. Dwil knows the cap going up.

Melo, Dwil and KP. Is that our big three?

Durant, DW, KP, Grant & Galloway.

But Only if Durant's feet hold up though. If not you look elsewhere for a player in his prime on the verge of entering his prime years

I was one of his biggest critics signing here, thinking him immediate bust the likes of Anthony Bennett and Kwame Brown, but he's played with a purpose all pre-season and Game 1.

Just a pleasant surprise with his attack mentality and non stop motor. Hopefully it continues tonight against Atlanta and beyond.

gunsnewing wrote:

Nalod wrote:Lets not get to excited by game one. Its a long season.

Dwil choose to be here so buy in to the system is a given. Same for any of the new guys.
Look at it objectively it was an opportunity for both knicks and dwil to make good and see what happens. If he shines, we pay him. If he shines, we don't need a new toy in the offseason.
Its logical, we created upside potential in a year we don't have a pick. So Dwil does good, he'll eat some cap but that's ok, he proved himself valuable. He should want to stay as he did this HERE.

Im sure most of us would rather have locked him up cheap, had him surge and then had more money to spend on others. Maybe that was never to happen, and perhaps it was Dwill and his agent who belive in themselves and did not want to do that.
Basically good teams don't have much money to spend and why would he want to go to a ****ty team again? Don't get me wrong, all things equal he'd be a fool to not accept a max contract but is that really going to be there for him?
And if he is that kind of player who was a key cog in getting us to the playoffs, then maybe he is that guy.

Will some of you cry that we blew it? Well, be fair, even the media questioned it.

Upside potential and the "Culture" enhanced a players career. That's a big deal and if its for real other players will want to come here.

We found our Kwai Leonard? Price is 16mil a year. Dwil knows the cap going up.

Melo, Dwil and KP. Is that our big three?

Durant, DW, KP, Grant & Galloway.

But Only if Durant's feet hold up though. If not you look elsewhere for a player in his prime on the verge of entering his prime years

Like Dwill??

Don't get me wrong, I'd love Durant but its always a long shot.

Tangable reality get guys who can thrive here is always the steady path. They can also become good trade fodder.

smackeddog wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The guy can flat out score. I thought I was watching a version of sprewell out there with his locks and play. He also rebounded like his athleticism and size dictates he can. I thought he handled the ball very well for 6-8 240 and while he did take 17 shots in 24 minutes--he was also a ball mover. I think we have a 6th man of the year type here--thats IF he is not moved into the SL.

And you were one of the MANY on here that stomped all over Phil signing D-Will. I can't remember too many liking this move besides me and Nixluva.

Actually, BRIGGS was one of the first advocates of targeting Williams- he was saying we should try and sign him since the middle of last season. I think his criticism of the signing was the amount- he wanted to sign him for about $2mil.

who cares who was first to advocate for a player? People advocate for many players and most of them turn into stiffs.

I could care less to predict. I try to judge what we actually have or judge based on data from the past. Phil is a better GM than any of us ... no?

fitzfarm wrote:I was all about Williams even before we signed him I wanted to trade for him when he was on the Kings. Also how many draft picks become premature "busts" on teams like the t wolves and kings. The kid is 24. It just took him till now to find his NBA game ... Guy is still a man child at 6'8 240 and can run and jump like a guard. He looked like LBJ out there in transition I don't know many 6'8" guys who can move that fast . He's very strong and can have a field day at the line. I'd sign him towards the end of the season. We have his bird rights and can offer him more then anyone

Hes a good ballhandler for such a big guy. Hes hard to stop going to the hole. Hes in attack mode and seems to have very high confidence along with re-established skills.

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The guy can flat out score. I thought I was watching a version of sprewell out there with his locks and play. He also rebounded like his athleticism and size dictates he can. I thought he handled the ball very well for 6-8 240 and while he did take 17 shots in 24 minutes--he was also a ball mover. I think we have a 6th man of the year type here--thats IF he is not moved into the SL.

And you were one of the MANY on here that stomped all over Phil signing D-Will. I can't remember too many liking this move besides me and Nixluva.

Youre memory must be failing you. I was easily the first person on this board who suggested signing Derrick Williams. Man you never get anything right lol

I was the first to express interest in Derrick Williams back in 2013 when it became evident the team was going nowhere after the great 18-5 start. I felt even then Derrick Williams upside was worth trading Melo for if we got back a lottery pick or 2. Problem was my trade proposal wouldve involved shipping Melo and Lala to basketball Siberia in Minnesota but he didn't have the no trade Claus then. It would've led to a head start on rebuilding and the Bargani trade would've never happened. At the same time Phil may or may not have been interested in taking over the reigns. I think he still would've. He has his eyes on the team back when we signed Amare and traded for Melo. Which he referred to as clumsy. The fact that he even commented on the Knicks means he was hovering around until Irving Azoff & Dolan sealed the deal with $60mil.
Safe to say I was a happy camper when out of the blue we signed DW this offseason.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43987