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J.Rose says the Knicks will get two of Monroe/Milsap/Harris on his podcast.
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holfresh
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6/4/2015  12:31 PM
crzymdups wrote:Jalen also said his sources told him Melo was a lock to go to Chicago. He's got connections, but he's primarily in the entertainment business.

They were offering 60 mil, it would never happen..Means this whole story is probably garbage...

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WaltLongmire
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6/4/2015  12:33 PM
nixluva wrote:I fully expect Phil to look for a starting PF/C and a SG/PG type. Monroe is more likely due to his size, low post and rebounding. I don't see Millsap or Harris as real targets. Carroll, Matthews or Danny Green make the most sense in terms of need and fit.

Would like Matthews, but for the injury, although the team which gets him might pay a bit less for him because of it, I would think. I know Mathews is good from distance, don't know the rest of his offensive game.

I like Carroll, but on the cheap.

Green is a bit scary because of his inconsistency. He has also made his name as a guy waiting on the outside for the 3 pt. attempt. Not sure he has the same opportunities here.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
RonRon
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6/4/2015  12:36 PM
Knixkik wrote:
FistOfOakley wrote:if tobias signs it basically means melo is going to PF fulltime... which i'm not opposed to but then you sign monroe or millsap and where do they play?

Monroe is a center. Millsap would not be a fit in that case. I think Harris is more of a PF and Melo at SF, but they would be interchangeable.


Agree, Monroe is a Center and isn't a good shot blocker
Though I do not think you NEED to be a great shot blocking team, you then must be above average on DEFENSE and VERY GOOD REBOUNDING TEAM if so
It depends on how we will out the roster, there are a couple of tricks

1- Draft pick, we could trade for Reggie Jackson and swap of picks, along with Greg Monroe or Tobias Harris, in which we own their BIRD RIGHTS with a low cap hold, so we can actually sign ALL 3
According to the sources, this pick could go anywhere for financial flexiblity, but it looks unlikely that we will take bad contracts and look to contend right away for a play off spot at the very least
But will we spend ALL WE CAN NOW or look to save enough for 1-2 MAX contracts in 2017?


2- 6m MLE by using Cole ALdrich/Acey who both have low cap holds in order to get the full 6m MLE

3- If we are able to trade Calderon (likely cost 1 first round draft pick in assets at minimum and a bit more if we do not take anything back)
On top of that, if we can get rid of Tim Hardaway JR's, Early, all 3 would combine for 10m in cap space to sign a player, however, for a trade for one player with 150% rule it would be about 15m with bit more depending on other fill ins, in which we could use Cole Aldrich or Acey to about 5m extra with 150% rule, bumping it about 22.5m for a player (though it would limit our ability to spend next summer)

4- players like Tim Hardaway JR/Early, Shved could net us back assets, especially a team like Clippers with limiited ability to improve if they resign DeAndre Jordan and could use these players, they own Nets 2nd rounder in 2016, we might be able to sepperate deals and get more if teams are interested in them and looking to save money for cap space

5- With that 10m in salary could use to poison pills and Could always BUY 2nd rounders but Late 1st rounders go against cap
OR use it to absorb salaries for draft picks especially if Boston's pick is available at pick 16

So there are a lot of different ways we can go about this "source" so far
In addition to our own future 1st rounders we could use, draft rights to Thanasis and that French kid drafted last year Louis Lafayeete

6- Not sure if we can back anything for players like Larkin/Jason Smith *both had decent runs especially Smith*
However, for Jason Smith, we used the tax payers MLE on him last season and if we resign him to a 1year deal, I think we would own his early bird rights

7- D League/Vet min talents such as

Thabeet
McGee
Larry Sanders *probably unguaranteed*
Bynum *unguaranteed*
Jermaine Oneil/Ray Allen/Stephen Jackson, not sure if Tmac has been working out who said last year after he retired that he wanted to come back to play with Kobe especially


1- Jerrelle Benimon SF, SF/PF, strech 4, maybe a Lamor Odom type player as a triple double threat
2- Jarell Eddie, G/F, a Danny Green type talent on shooting
3- Scotty Hopson, G/F, another G/F that can shoot and score/penetrate/facilitate, decent versatile game as well


Thabeet - he is ready now, after a couple of years developing, it is time for him to possibly break out and be a solid rotation Center at the very least that could be a DPOY like a Roy Hibbert
Jared Cunningham *really has improved his shooting and has the ability to penetrate/finish like a poor mans Monta Ellis, once compared to Westbrook and was a mid lottory pick*
Nate Walters *depending on our roster as a shooter off the bench, Sniper*
There are many more other talents however, for us there are only so many young players we can acquire without even considering UNDRAFTED ROOKIES as well as 2nd rounder that we could likely acquire

Eddie Griffen/Khem Birch, as stetch 4's
CJ Fair *Josh Howard comparison*
Willie Reed *poor mans Greg Monroe*, Arinza Onuaku
some PG's like
Aaron Craft, Tim Frazier, Darrius Morris, Tourre Murry


Then there are undrafted talents/late 2nd rounders that could likely be bought and/or traded for and used or stashed

As LATE 2nd rounders and that could be undrafted
there are many 2nd rounders to be stashed or signed, and/or undrafted FA's

1/2- Marcus Thortnon at G and David Laury at F that Briggs has brought up

3- Sam Thompson as a smaller Ariza comparison at G/F

4- Michael Qualls

5- Harrison Brothers


could go anywhere from late 1st rounder to early 2nd round talents, too many too list but

1- Fuzaro

2- George De Paula/Terry Rozier

3- Christian Wood/ Dakari Johnson


http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51180

crzymdups
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6/4/2015  12:36 PM
Jalen sounds like he knows something about Monroe to the Knicks. He sounds like he's just guessing about Harris and Milsap. Positionally, it makes no sense to have 75% of the cap tied up in Melo/Monroe and Harris or Milsap.

Anyways, we'll see. There are certain combinations where I wouldn't mind having Harris on the team.

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Knicks1969
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6/4/2015  12:44 PM
Monroe would be a very effective big with WCS playing next to him. With those two at the front court a couple of three point shooters on the wing,along with a healthy/rededicated Carmelo, we would definitely have a winner
Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
nixluva
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6/4/2015  12:59 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:Monroe would be a very effective big with WCS playing next to him. With those two at the front court a couple of three point shooters on the wing,along with a healthy/rededicated Carmelo, we would definitely have a winner

YUP! Monroe complements WCS pretty well. He isn't much of a shot blocker but he can rebound and score in the low post. He's not super efficient from mid range but he does have the ability to step out a little, face up and drive which a lot of people undersell. Monroe is very mobile and agile. He's just not explosive. Monroe is also a very good passer, which is a very important thing in the Triangle. You give him some targets on the perimeter and he should be able to find them.

Knicks1969
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6/4/2015  1:04 PM
nixluva wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:Monroe would be a very effective big with WCS playing next to him. With those two at the front court a couple of three point shooters on the wing,along with a healthy/rededicated Carmelo, we would definitely have a winner

YUP! Monroe complements WCS pretty well. He isn't much of a shot blocker but he can rebound and score in the low post. He's not super efficient from mid range but he does have the ability to step out a little, face up and drive which a lot of people undersell. Monroe is very mobile and agile. He's just not explosive. Monroe is also a very good passer, which is a very important thing in the Triangle. You give him some targets on the perimeter and he should be able to find them.

If we are smart and fortunate enough to draft and sign the aforementioned, the Knicks will possibly be one of the BEST rebounding and post-up teams in the league. But that makes too much sense, it will never happen.

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
H1AND1
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6/4/2015  1:06 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/4/2015  1:09 PM
Harris is a lot like Melo in that his best position is probably "small ball PF".

So if the Knicks are targetting 3 F's so early does this point to taking a guard in the draft?

EDIT: Or WCS to stop the horrendous D of that frontline of Melo or Harris and Monroe. Yikes.

nixluva
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6/4/2015  1:11 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:Monroe would be a very effective big with WCS playing next to him. With those two at the front court a couple of three point shooters on the wing,along with a healthy/rededicated Carmelo, we would definitely have a winner

YUP! Monroe complements WCS pretty well. He isn't much of a shot blocker but he can rebound and score in the low post. He's not super efficient from mid range but he does have the ability to step out a little, face up and drive which a lot of people undersell. Monroe is very mobile and agile. He's just not explosive. Monroe is also a very good passer, which is a very important thing in the Triangle. You give him some targets on the perimeter and he should be able to find them.

If we are smart and fortunate enough to draft and sign the aforementioned, the Knicks will possibly be one of the BEST rebounding and post-up teams in the league. But that makes too much sense, it will never happen.


I really believe Phil is looking to put a team together that closely mirrors his last Lakers Title Team. 2 bigs like Bynum and Gasol. Big guards and wings. He wants defense and efficient offense. He has the assets to make that happen and I doubt he veers away from what he's been most comfortable with.
Rosey
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6/4/2015  1:16 PM
I can't see Knicks using up all their cap space on 2 max players. If they sign one (say Monroe), I can see them splitting the remainder on mid-level players. Knicks need so many pieces: rim protector and toughness, low post scorer/rebounder/passer, perimeter defense, another distance shooter and someone who can beat a defender off the dribble and penetrate when the clock runs down. Too often last season they got bogged down trying to run the triangle as the clock ran down. Realistically, these are 5 issues and they can probably address 3 of these this summer. Beyond that, it's coaching and player development and maybe setting up for next season to get another key acquisition. I really liked Wes Matthews Jr. for perimeter shooting and defense - before he ripped his Achilles (too bad).
MaTT4281
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6/4/2015  1:17 PM
holfresh wrote:Great at .500 team..

That's a hell of a jump for year 1!

holfresh
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6/4/2015  1:26 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/4/2015  1:27 PM
MaTT4281 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Great at .500 team..

That's a hell of a jump for year 1!

If that's the goal then yeah..A maxed out .500 team is what Layden had..Isn't that why we are here now?..

crzymdups
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6/4/2015  1:26 PM
holfresh wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Great at .500 team..

That's a hell of a jump for year 1!

If that's the goal then yeah..A maxed out .500 team is what Layden had..

Cap is going up two years in a row after this to almost $100M

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holfresh
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6/4/2015  1:31 PM
crzymdups wrote:
holfresh wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Great at .500 team..

That's a hell of a jump for year 1!

If that's the goal then yeah..A maxed out .500 team is what Layden had..

Cap is going up two years in a row after this to almost $100M


Which means we don't have to just add mediocre players just because..
crzymdups
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6/4/2015  1:34 PM
holfresh wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
holfresh wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Great at .500 team..

That's a hell of a jump for year 1!

If that's the goal then yeah..A maxed out .500 team is what Layden had..

Cap is going up two years in a row after this to almost $100M


Which means we don't have to just add mediocre players just because..

It's a perception thing - if the Knicks don't get a lot better, free agents and the league will continue to think "Knicks suck, no one is going there"

Any max signed this summer with a $15M salary will be easily tradeable with a $100M cap.

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MaTT4281
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6/4/2015  1:41 PM
crzymdups wrote:
holfresh wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
holfresh wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Great at .500 team..

That's a hell of a jump for year 1!

If that's the goal then yeah..A maxed out .500 team is what Layden had..

Cap is going up two years in a row after this to almost $100M


Which means we don't have to just add mediocre players just because..

It's a perception thing - if the Knicks don't get a lot better, free agents and the league will continue to think "Knicks suck, no one is going there"

Any max signed this summer with a $15M salary will be easily tradeable with a $100M cap.

Especially without a draft pick next summer where we might benefit from another tank. I'm not sure I want 2 of the lot listed above, but I'd happily take any one of them to help shore up the roster. Contracts signed this year are going to look very reasonable after the impending big bang.

holfresh
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6/4/2015  1:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/4/2015  1:45 PM
crzymdups wrote:
holfresh wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
holfresh wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Great at .500 team..

That's a hell of a jump for year 1!

If that's the goal then yeah..A maxed out .500 team is what Layden had..

Cap is going up two years in a row after this to almost $100M


Which means we don't have to just add mediocre players just because..

It's a perception thing - if the Knicks don't get a lot better, free agents and the league will continue to think "Knicks suck, no one is going there"

Any max signed this summer with a $15M salary will be easily tradeable with a $100M cap.

Why sign a player you then need to trade?..I'll make the call right now..Monroe is a deadbeat..Won't move the needle in terms of wins..He has been on a team 5 years that hasn't won 30 games..Can't shoot beyond 10 feet..Slow and certainly isn't a defender...But let's max him..I prefer Tristan Thompson, although we can't get him..

nixluva
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6/4/2015  2:14 PM
holfresh wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
holfresh wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
holfresh wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Great at .500 team..

That's a hell of a jump for year 1!

If that's the goal then yeah..A maxed out .500 team is what Layden had..

Cap is going up two years in a row after this to almost $100M


Which means we don't have to just add mediocre players just because..

It's a perception thing - if the Knicks don't get a lot better, free agents and the league will continue to think "Knicks suck, no one is going there"

Any max signed this summer with a $15M salary will be easily tradeable with a $100M cap.

Why sign a player you then need to trade?..I'll make the call right now..Monroe is a deadbeat..Won't move the needle in terms of wins..He has been on a team 5 years that hasn't won 30 games..Can't shoot beyond 10 feet..Slow and certainly isn't a defender...But let's max him..I prefer Tristan Thompson, although we can't get him..


And there's the rub. You can't just wish for some fantasy player that we can't get. There is a finite set of options. We know who the top players are. The best guys are older and too expensive. To get a guy that is 85% of what those top guys offer for about 85% of the cost is actually not a bad idea.

If he re-signs with the Grizzlies, Gasol can ink a max contract that starts at around $18 million in the first season with 7.5 percent raises in each season thereafter. If he signed with the Knicks or any other club, his max contract would be for four years starting at around $18 million in the first season with annual raises of 4.5 percent.

The maximum offer Monroe can receive in free agency outside of Detroit is four years, and just short of $67.5 Million. That begins at $15.8 Million in the first season with maximum 4.5% raises in each following year.

That would be good value for a 25 year old big man who can be a consistent producer in the post, passing and rebounding. Tho he's not a shot blocker he actually showed improvement on the defensive end.

holfresh
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6/4/2015  2:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/4/2015  2:22 PM
nixluva wrote:
holfresh wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
holfresh wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
holfresh wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Great at .500 team..

That's a hell of a jump for year 1!

If that's the goal then yeah..A maxed out .500 team is what Layden had..

Cap is going up two years in a row after this to almost $100M


Which means we don't have to just add mediocre players just because..

It's a perception thing - if the Knicks don't get a lot better, free agents and the league will continue to think "Knicks suck, no one is going there"

Any max signed this summer with a $15M salary will be easily tradeable with a $100M cap.

Why sign a player you then need to trade?..I'll make the call right now..Monroe is a deadbeat..Won't move the needle in terms of wins..He has been on a team 5 years that hasn't won 30 games..Can't shoot beyond 10 feet..Slow and certainly isn't a defender...But let's max him..I prefer Tristan Thompson, although we can't get him..


And there's the rub. You can't just wish for some fantasy player that we can't get. There is a finite set of options. We know who the top players are. The best guys are older and too expensive. To get a guy that is 85% of what those top guys offer for about 85% of the cost is actually not a bad idea.

If he re-signs with the Grizzlies, Gasol can ink a max contract that starts at around $18 million in the first season with 7.5 percent raises in each season thereafter. If he signed with the Knicks or any other club, his max contract would be for four years starting at around $18 million in the first season with annual raises of 4.5 percent.

The maximum offer Monroe can receive in free agency outside of Detroit is four years, and just short of $67.5 Million. That begins at $15.8 Million in the first season with maximum 4.5% raises in each following year.

That would be good value for a 25 year old big man who can be a consistent producer in the post, passing and rebounding. Tho he's not a shot blocker he actually showed improvement on the defensive end.

You don't have to sign him..There isn't a gun to your head...Better to have the cap space than a zero impact player...

Bonn1997
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6/4/2015  2:21 PM
crzymdups wrote:Jalen sounds like he knows something about Monroe to the Knicks. He sounds like he's just guessing about Harris and Milsap. Positionally, it makes no sense to have 75% 85 of the cap tied up in Calderon, Melo/Monroe and Harris or Milsap.

Anyways, we'll see. There are certain combinations where I wouldn't mind having Harris on the team.


Edited - This may make you feel better
J.Rose says the Knicks will get two of Monroe/Milsap/Harris on his podcast.

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