dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:"Focal Point" sure thing!

Which makes this statement wrong - "but this season is all about transitioning to KP as the focal point."

KP is the best player on this team and it's not even close.

That's beside the point you made that I responded to. More relevant to what we all want to occur is Melo will make Porzingis better, as Tues. so clearly demonstrated.

As to who's better, Porzingis has the potential to be better.

But his shot has to start falling at a higher rate than at least a slumping Melo (which it isn't at the moment) to make that declaration.

But again, much more relevant is they're both on the Knicks and very good for one another and if there are arguments to be made throughout the year which is better, that's a very good thing.

I, unlike others, hope it's a close, arguable race so long as they play with one another.

Worrying about who is better is a pursuit better left to bitter, fixated critics who are more concerned with their personal fetishes than than positive team things occurring.

Melo doesn't impact the game in all facets like KP does. Melo cannot seemingly guard 1 through 5 like KP does already.

Moot point.

You mean "no point".

They're BOTH on the Knicks, compliment one another very well, and the Knicks are better having both of them. Melo's presence and skill set makes KP better which makes the Knicks better.

What is the relevance of the question other than your personal axe to grind?

Bottom line is Knicks winning, and the formula for that is Melo playing 2nd fiddle and doing the other things like defending and distributing. Letting Afflalo hit some buckets, letting Kristaps get the shine. Stop getting butt hurt if your hero isn't the head tamale anymore.

i want to say i prize and love team ball and i also love the two-man game because i love interior passing, pick and roll, pick and pop.... i am as old school as they come... so to me this "argument" of who is the lead player/1st option is of no importance to me, so long as players play with-- but more importantly FOR-- one another. it's the recipe for winning and is EXACTLY the way the knicks title teams played-- phil jackson remembers!!! just look at the offensive bounds kp gathers and then immediately finds melo. or melo with a pocket pass in traffic for kp. just beautiful and great.

i have been down on melo since forever but if he plays with-- and for-- porzngis (and others) this season as he goes into the last stages of his career... then good for him and the knicks. as it is he has been playing great the last few games so far as i am concerned: not being a primadonna, cutting back on the stupid shots, giving genuine effort defensively 95% of the time, assisting and moving the ball. i am happy with what he is doing! if he continues to put up paul pierce-like numbers he will have earned his money.

i am really hoping this trend continues because everybody wins.

Exactly right. This is all us Melo "haters" have pointing out, especially this season.

If he takes a slight back seat role in the Paul Pierce to KP's lead dog KG, it benefits the team greatly. Can't see how any Knicks fan would be opposed to this.

The kid says he's ready now, feed the motherphucker!

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:the beauty of "who would we take at #2" is if we actually DID have the #2 pick in the draft, im pretty sure we would have drafted okafor or russell and honestly, i think porzingis is better than everyone, maybe even towns. so in effect, winning those couple games at the end of the year actually helped the knicks because it made it easier to select porzingis at 4 rather than 2.

It also got atlanta to take THJ! How great was that?

The THJ for Grant deal was worth its weight in gold!

Grant wouldn't be playing in ATL either..

and this is exactly why posters are starting to get fed up with your posts. It's like you are rooting against the Knicks are aren't really a fan of the Knicks team or players.

Grant hasn't been perfect but he has been good and deserving of time.

The deal was Grant for THJ and they only thing you can think to post is maybe Grant wouldn't get minutes in ALT? Fuwk that type of post and that weak ass ****.

I'll step back..I don't really subscribe to group think..I have been on this board for 9 years..When have I ever rooted against the Knicks??..If differing opinions on approach to building a team is some how causing wholesale upheaval then I don't want to be the cause of that...

Grant plays a completely different position than THJ-Atlanta does not really need another PG although I read that they were interested in Payne, who was gone before pick 15...the real question is about why THJ is not playing, and whether it might have anything to do with why Phil traded him.

Any significant thoughts on why he isn't playing in Atlanta, since you seem to have a higher opinion of him than two sets of coaches?

Atlanta had pick 15, and could have had prospects like Rashad Vaughn or Portis if they had kept the pick, so they seemed to believe that THJ could help replace the impending loss of Carroll. He might still emerge as a good player for them, but I find it surprising that he's been buried on their roster so far.

Don't think there is a group think thing that you're resisting, although it might be true that some are drinking a bit too much of the KP kool-aid at this point. These things go in cycles, anyway. Sure tastes good, though, and it seems plentiful right now. Rookies have their up and down moments, but I always look at the ups when they are very early in their career, because you figure they can work on their flaws for the most part. KP is giving all Knicks fans some hope for the future, a perhaps more interestingly...hope for this season.

Said this once before...draft picks are like children for a fan- you always overreact when they do things for the first time, and you tend use a great deal of hyperbole when describing them. Nothing out of the ordinary, as you yourself pointed out in an analogy at some point. You just seem to have affection for guys we did not, or could not, draft.

A lot of folks were against the KP pick. Some have admitted they overreacted...some have said he's better than they thought. I could be wrong, but I would think that someone who had your draft day (and later) reactions to Phil picking KP

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51638
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51634
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51615

might have expressed some surprise at how well he's played, how quickly he's adapted to the NBA, and how totally wrong you, like many of us, were wrong about how he might just be a draw for future FAs, or how he would initially deal with the physicality in the league.

I think the general excepted definition of rebuilding is thru draft picks and building around them as the focus of the team...If the Knicks are going after Durant, I doubt Porzingus is thought of as a piece to build around...

...I agree with most that said the KP may be a few years away..I think most here underestimate how difficult it is to get acclimated to playing a 82 game schedule...KP's conditioning in summer league doesn't seem like a guy ready to contribute in May and June after his first season of a 82 game NBA season...I think it will take him some time to adjust to the schedule while trying to strengthening his body for the NBA game. (holfresh 8/12)

You, though, are more likely to save your words of support for the guy you, but not Phil, wanted the Knicks to take-

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=52066&page=1

which is fine, but at some point your comments sound as if they are coming from a troll, and people are reacting to them in the same way you would react to how some (including myself) have gone after Anthony at times.

And this kind of thread is also a backhanded method of attacking Porzingis, even though you would just say you're reporting the "news."
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=52308

Talking about KPs existing flaws is one thing, but in the past you've attempted to portray the guy as a child who should be coddled by Fisher and given minutes sparingly, or as a guy who was knocked about like a rag doll in SL. After the Cavs game you cherry-picked some poor play and seemed to forget that he had almost completely neutralized Love's game on the offensive end and had a pretty good game.

I could go on about Mudiay's flaws ad nauseam...talk about the fact that he may be the worst on ball defender I've seen in the NBA, but what's the point- he's still young and he's not on my team. You have no issues taking shots at Porzingis, though.

I do know one thing for sure- you would be chirping like a CO2 alarm in need of a battery if Porzingis looked like he needed another 3 years to develop and Mudiay was shooting over 31% and not playing CBA style D in the mile high city. I dreaded the thought of having to "go to battle" in support of KP if he seemed like he was not ready for this league. Thankfully for me, he's been a dream rookie starting with his play in SL, and he appears to be getting better.

You seem totally unwilling to give credit where credit is due, or speculate that even though we "tanked on the tank," we might have lucked out and gotten a player who can be something special down the road. Lots of folks besides guys on this forum are taking notice of him, and the term "franchise player" has been uttered by many in the media and NBA community when commenting on Porzingis. No Darko/Bargs talk and no laughing at Phil's pick. The only laughter is being directed toward that know nothing dad and his selfie son who you gave a shout out to on draft night and empathized with:

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51624

From what I've read you seem to have an interest in certain players which overrides any loyalty to this team. That's fine, but it would seem that you reserve many of your most spirited comments to defend guys we got rid of or being critical of players now on the team.

I know that if we had taken Mudiay, Winslow, or even the dreaded Stein, I would have been pissed off, tried to figure out why Phil took the player he took, and then gone on being a Knicks fan and supporting the player. Did that with Hill, who I definitely did not want a few years ago, and with Shumpert. There is frequently some self-deception involved if you are a fan, but that is part of supporting a team, I suppose.

In KP we seem to have gotten a kid who is a competitor and a baller, as well as an intelligent gym rat. Grant was a successful college player and leader who is still looking for a comfort zone on this team and some NBA confidence. These guys are a large part of this team's future at this moment, and KP looks like a guy you can build a team around. Might be time to come to terms with the fact that comparisons with other picks aside...we got what appears to be a franchise quality player in KP. Still a long way to go, but the fact that we can imagine him being a top 10 star in the league at some point does not sound as ridiculous as it might have sounded on draft night.

First of all, If it were your intention of presenting a balanced case against me, regarding KP and my attacks on KP, I would respect that..The fact that this is your second attempt to cast me as someone attacking KP and again I ask you to present the facts...But this seems to be your MO..You say things for which I have called you on, repeatedly, that bears no facts..Regarding ESPN rookie of the year projections, I post ESPN player rankings, team rankings, especially when Knicks are involved over the years...Please do look that up as well, as you have conveniently omitted all the other rankings I have posted over the years..It must be that I'm picking on KP...This very year, when I posted ESPN player ranking, I was accused of picking on Knick players and Phil...But what about the other years I have posted these same rankings???..Maybe I'm picking on Melo's low ESPN ranking...You are searching for something that isn't there, which is fine, I'm a big boy...

Talking about KPs existing flaws is one thing, but in the past you've attempted to portray the guy as a child who should be coddled by Fisher and given minutes sparingly, or as a guy who was knocked about like a rag doll in SL. After the Cavs game you cherry-picked some poor play and seemed to forget that he had almost completely neutralized Love's game on the offensive end and had a pretty good game.

Please show me what you are referring to...Again, please show me...I talk about the 82 game schedule and getting acclimated to the rigors of the NBA in the cases of all rookies, not just KP..In this very thread, I think in another discussions with making assessments after 10 games, my response was let's see who is standing out of the rookie class after they hit the rookie wall before making such judgement..It is my philosophy that some players regardless of talent, aren't mentally built for the 82 game schedule and the demands of the NBA so they fade as players..But you think it was a personal attack on KP...I can't help that, you are still searching...

From what I've read you seem to have an interest in certain players which overrides any loyalty to this team. That's fine, but it would seem that you reserve many of your most spirited comments to defend guys we got rid of or being critical of players now on the team.

No you want me to parrot your ideas, agree to the things you imagine to happen with no proof...When I defend certain players because your accusations bear nothing related to reality, I'm putting player ahead of team or players not on the team..Do me a favor, talk facts you have seen and not imagined and you won't have to worry about me..Anyway, you won't have to worry about me fact checking you going forward...

I know that if we had taken Mudiay, Winslow, or even the dreaded Stein, I would have been pissed off, tried to figure out why Phil took the player he took, and then gone on being a Knicks fan and supporting the player. Did that with Hill, who I definitely did not want a few years ago, and with Shumpert. There is frequently some self-deception involved if you are a fan, but that is part of supporting a team, I suppose.

WTF does that mean???..Why would you question anyone's fandom who post on this board about every conceivable topic, ever???...And who do you think you are, Mr. Knick gatekeeper of fandom??..And shockingly, I have seen the same people taking shots at me start Knugget threads in the main forum and openly root against the Knicks...Yet I'm the bad fan, it's comical..

And so what if I thought Mudiay was a better pick, why does that have everyone panties in bunches??? Why does everyone care so much???..It's a freaking opinion...Do I really have that much sway???..I need to bottle it and sell it...Dudes are having boners claiming holfresh got it wrong, comical..

Scary to see you writing from a third person perspective.

You didn't understand that my comment about fan self-deception was about everyone, including myself. You're right to react to the overreaction to the last Charlotte game and the KP love-fest now going on, and though I've made comments about how surprised I've been at his play and that he looks like a franchise player, I feel some might be taking things a bit too far so early in his career.

Pretty obvious where you're coming from, though, you've been pretty consistent since draft night, where some of your comments probably deserve another look. From my perspective you have almost seemed to take the pick personally for some reason.

Have not read every post in every thread, but I don't recall you ever actually speculating that you might have been wrong about Porzingis as a player, or that he might be much further ahead in his development than any of us though he would be.

You seemed to relish pointing out that he did not fare as well as some of us would have hoped against the player (Davis) generally considered the guy you would start a team with if you could choose any player at this time, and I know for a fact that you made some short uninformed comment about him in the last Cavs game which made me comment that you were obviously not watching the game, or simply cherry picking moments in the game. You can look at the thread for my comment if you like. Here is my response to you on your comment on KP in the Cav's game, by the way:

holfresh wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:Is fisher too stupid to not put KP back in

KP's ineffectiveness on defense put us in this spot

HUH?

Yea what the f are you talking about? KP is one of our best defenders

KP is not a good man defender..He is a good help defender..Mozgov sealed him for an easy layup in the 4th..Love blew by him..

You were clearly watching another game...or you are cherry picking.

Love had 7 points, if I read the box score correctly.

You overlook an entire game to find some plays you can use...give it up, bro.

You have every right to feel that Mudiay was the pick at #4, but you seem to turn a strangely blind eye to what the Latvian is doing, and doing more reacting to all the media and poster hype that clearly disturbs you, instead of taking in and digesting what is actually happening on the court. You seem to be missing the evolution of a very good young player...who might eventually be the franchise player that you don't think he can be, and who is an attraction for free agents, despite your thoughts on the matter

None of this is written in stone- maybe he's just going to be a very good player, but some of things he has one in his 12 game career are already turning many heads.

I gave some quotes from you and some threads you initiated, and remember some comments of yours about how Fisher should go easy with Porzingis and not rush things (have not heard you say the same thing about other specific rookies though- If I'm wrong about this, please show me.).

Since I'm not the only one whose commented about you, I expect that many have seen a posting pattern from you. I've taken crap for my take on Anthony, but, unlike your attitude with KP, Anthony has won me over for the most part with his play on the court and the leadership he is now showing that was not present in previous years.

If you don't see a pattern in your threads and posts concerning Porzingis that is your issue.

Watch the movie 12 Angry Men, if you have not already...kind of mirrors the way fan reaction to KP has gone. You look back to the reaction on draft night, then SL, then Pre-Season, and the start of the regular season, you see a progression as folks start to realize that the guy some condemned as a bust before he ever stepped on an NBA court...who at best, was 3 years away from being able to compete in this league, is perhaps better than anticipated and more ready to play in the NBA than anyone thought, including a strong supporter like myself.

Like the comment about me as Mr. Knicks gatekeeper of fandom, by the way...might have to use that in my signature. Not true, but funny.

Here is what keeps flying by you, it's not personal with KP..I do that to every overreaction..I comment on your constant pounding of JR..I comment on your constant pounding of TIMJR..I comment on your constant pounding of Melo...I comment on the constant pounding of Felton....I comment on the KP overblown statements...One of the last statements I made was that Grant would not start in ATL either...That's me defending a former KNICK TIMJR...So now I hate Grant and KP???...I commented on Lin too..But Lin I didn't like....

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:the beauty of "who would we take at #2" is if we actually DID have the #2 pick in the draft, im pretty sure we would have drafted okafor or russell and honestly, i think porzingis is better than everyone, maybe even towns. so in effect, winning those couple games at the end of the year actually helped the knicks because it made it easier to select porzingis at 4 rather than 2.

It also got atlanta to take THJ! How great was that?

The THJ for Grant deal was worth its weight in gold!

Grant wouldn't be playing in ATL either..

and this is exactly why posters are starting to get fed up with your posts. It's like you are rooting against the Knicks are aren't really a fan of the Knicks team or players.

Grant hasn't been perfect but he has been good and deserving of time.

The deal was Grant for THJ and they only thing you can think to post is maybe Grant wouldn't get minutes in ALT? Fuwk that type of post and that weak ass ****.

I'll step back..I don't really subscribe to group think..I have been on this board for 9 years..When have I ever rooted against the Knicks??..If differing opinions on approach to building a team is some how causing wholesale upheaval then I don't want to be the cause of that...

Grant plays a completely different position than THJ-Atlanta does not really need another PG although I read that they were interested in Payne, who was gone before pick 15...the real question is about why THJ is not playing, and whether it might have anything to do with why Phil traded him.

Any significant thoughts on why he isn't playing in Atlanta, since you seem to have a higher opinion of him than two sets of coaches?

Atlanta had pick 15, and could have had prospects like Rashad Vaughn or Portis if they had kept the pick, so they seemed to believe that THJ could help replace the impending loss of Carroll. He might still emerge as a good player for them, but I find it surprising that he's been buried on their roster so far.

Don't think there is a group think thing that you're resisting, although it might be true that some are drinking a bit too much of the KP kool-aid at this point. These things go in cycles, anyway. Sure tastes good, though, and it seems plentiful right now. Rookies have their up and down moments, but I always look at the ups when they are very early in their career, because you figure they can work on their flaws for the most part. KP is giving all Knicks fans some hope for the future, a perhaps more interestingly...hope for this season.

Said this once before...draft picks are like children for a fan- you always overreact when they do things for the first time, and you tend use a great deal of hyperbole when describing them. Nothing out of the ordinary, as you yourself pointed out in an analogy at some point. You just seem to have affection for guys we did not, or could not, draft.

A lot of folks were against the KP pick. Some have admitted they overreacted...some have said he's better than they thought. I could be wrong, but I would think that someone who had your draft day (and later) reactions to Phil picking KP

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51638
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51634
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51615

might have expressed some surprise at how well he's played, how quickly he's adapted to the NBA, and how totally wrong you, like many of us, were wrong about how he might just be a draw for future FAs, or how he would initially deal with the physicality in the league.

I think the general excepted definition of rebuilding is thru draft picks and building around them as the focus of the team...If the Knicks are going after Durant, I doubt Porzingus is thought of as a piece to build around...

...I agree with most that said the KP may be a few years away..I think most here underestimate how difficult it is to get acclimated to playing a 82 game schedule...KP's conditioning in summer league doesn't seem like a guy ready to contribute in May and June after his first season of a 82 game NBA season...I think it will take him some time to adjust to the schedule while trying to strengthening his body for the NBA game. (holfresh 8/12)

You, though, are more likely to save your words of support for the guy you, but not Phil, wanted the Knicks to take-

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=52066&page=1

which is fine, but at some point your comments sound as if they are coming from a troll, and people are reacting to them in the same way you would react to how some (including myself) have gone after Anthony at times.

And this kind of thread is also a backhanded method of attacking Porzingis, even though you would just say you're reporting the "news."
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=52308

Talking about KPs existing flaws is one thing, but in the past you've attempted to portray the guy as a child who should be coddled by Fisher and given minutes sparingly, or as a guy who was knocked about like a rag doll in SL. After the Cavs game you cherry-picked some poor play and seemed to forget that he had almost completely neutralized Love's game on the offensive end and had a pretty good game.

I could go on about Mudiay's flaws ad nauseam...talk about the fact that he may be the worst on ball defender I've seen in the NBA, but what's the point- he's still young and he's not on my team. You have no issues taking shots at Porzingis, though.

I do know one thing for sure- you would be chirping like a CO2 alarm in need of a battery if Porzingis looked like he needed another 3 years to develop and Mudiay was shooting over 31% and not playing CBA style D in the mile high city. I dreaded the thought of having to "go to battle" in support of KP if he seemed like he was not ready for this league. Thankfully for me, he's been a dream rookie starting with his play in SL, and he appears to be getting better.

You seem totally unwilling to give credit where credit is due, or speculate that even though we "tanked on the tank," we might have lucked out and gotten a player who can be something special down the road. Lots of folks besides guys on this forum are taking notice of him, and the term "franchise player" has been uttered by many in the media and NBA community when commenting on Porzingis. No Darko/Bargs talk and no laughing at Phil's pick. The only laughter is being directed toward that know nothing dad and his selfie son who you gave a shout out to on draft night and empathized with:

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51624

From what I've read you seem to have an interest in certain players which overrides any loyalty to this team. That's fine, but it would seem that you reserve many of your most spirited comments to defend guys we got rid of or being critical of players now on the team.

I know that if we had taken Mudiay, Winslow, or even the dreaded Stein, I would have been pissed off, tried to figure out why Phil took the player he took, and then gone on being a Knicks fan and supporting the player. Did that with Hill, who I definitely did not want a few years ago, and with Shumpert. There is frequently some self-deception involved if you are a fan, but that is part of supporting a team, I suppose.

In KP we seem to have gotten a kid who is a competitor and a baller, as well as an intelligent gym rat. Grant was a successful college player and leader who is still looking for a comfort zone on this team and some NBA confidence. These guys are a large part of this team's future at this moment, and KP looks like a guy you can build a team around. Might be time to come to terms with the fact that comparisons with other picks aside...we got what appears to be a franchise quality player in KP. Still a long way to go, but the fact that we can imagine him being a top 10 star in the league at some point does not sound as ridiculous as it might have sounded on draft night.

First of all, If it were your intention of presenting a balanced case against me, regarding KP and my attacks on KP, I would respect that..The fact that this is your second attempt to cast me as someone attacking KP and again I ask you to present the facts...But this seems to be your MO..You say things for which I have called you on, repeatedly, that bears no facts..Regarding ESPN rookie of the year projections, I post ESPN player rankings, team rankings, especially when Knicks are involved over the years...Please do look that up as well, as you have conveniently omitted all the other rankings I have posted over the years..It must be that I'm picking on KP...This very year, when I posted ESPN player ranking, I was accused of picking on Knick players and Phil...But what about the other years I have posted these same rankings???..Maybe I'm picking on Melo's low ESPN ranking...You are searching for something that isn't there, which is fine, I'm a big boy...

Talking about KPs existing flaws is one thing, but in the past you've attempted to portray the guy as a child who should be coddled by Fisher and given minutes sparingly, or as a guy who was knocked about like a rag doll in SL. After the Cavs game you cherry-picked some poor play and seemed to forget that he had almost completely neutralized Love's game on the offensive end and had a pretty good game.

Please show me what you are referring to...Again, please show me...I talk about the 82 game schedule and getting acclimated to the rigors of the NBA in the cases of all rookies, not just KP..In this very thread, I think in another discussions with making assessments after 10 games, my response was let's see who is standing out of the rookie class after they hit the rookie wall before making such judgement..It is my philosophy that some players regardless of talent, aren't mentally built for the 82 game schedule and the demands of the NBA so they fade as players..But you think it was a personal attack on KP...I can't help that, you are still searching...

From what I've read you seem to have an interest in certain players which overrides any loyalty to this team. That's fine, but it would seem that you reserve many of your most spirited comments to defend guys we got rid of or being critical of players now on the team.

No you want me to parrot your ideas, agree to the things you imagine to happen with no proof...When I defend certain players because your accusations bear nothing related to reality, I'm putting player ahead of team or players not on the team..Do me a favor, talk facts you have seen and not imagined and you won't have to worry about me..Anyway, you won't have to worry about me fact checking you going forward...

I know that if we had taken Mudiay, Winslow, or even the dreaded Stein, I would have been pissed off, tried to figure out why Phil took the player he took, and then gone on being a Knicks fan and supporting the player. Did that with Hill, who I definitely did not want a few years ago, and with Shumpert. There is frequently some self-deception involved if you are a fan, but that is part of supporting a team, I suppose.

WTF does that mean???..Why would you question anyone's fandom who post on this board about every conceivable topic, ever???...And who do you think you are, Mr. Knick gatekeeper of fandom??..And shockingly, I have seen the same people taking shots at me start Knugget threads in the main forum and openly root against the Knicks...Yet I'm the bad fan, it's comical..

And so what if I thought Mudiay was a better pick, why does that have everyone panties in bunches??? Why does everyone care so much???..It's a freaking opinion...Do I really have that much sway???..I need to bottle it and sell it...Dudes are having boners claiming holfresh got it wrong, comical..

Scary to see you writing from a third person perspective.

You didn't understand that my comment about fan self-deception was about everyone, including myself. You're right to react to the overreaction to the last Charlotte game and the KP love-fest now going on, and though I've made comments about how surprised I've been at his play and that he looks like a franchise player, I feel some might be taking things a bit too far so early in his career.

Pretty obvious where you're coming from, though, you've been pretty consistent since draft night, where some of your comments probably deserve another look. From my perspective you have almost seemed to take the pick personally for some reason.

Have not read every post in every thread, but I don't recall you ever actually speculating that you might have been wrong about Porzingis as a player, or that he might be much further ahead in his development than any of us though he would be.

You seemed to relish pointing out that he did not fare as well as some of us would have hoped against the player (Davis) generally considered the guy you would start a team with if you could choose any player at this time, and I know for a fact that you made some short uninformed comment about him in the last Cavs game which made me comment that you were obviously not watching the game, or simply cherry picking moments in the game. You can look at the thread for my comment if you like. Here is my response to you on your comment on KP in the Cav's game, by the way:

holfresh wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:Is fisher too stupid to not put KP back in

KP's ineffectiveness on defense put us in this spot

HUH?

Yea what the f are you talking about? KP is one of our best defenders

KP is not a good man defender..He is a good help defender..Mozgov sealed him for an easy layup in the 4th..Love blew by him..

You were clearly watching another game...or you are cherry picking.

Love had 7 points, if I read the box score correctly.

You overlook an entire game to find some plays you can use...give it up, bro.

You have every right to feel that Mudiay was the pick at #4, but you seem to turn a strangely blind eye to what the Latvian is doing, and doing more reacting to all the media and poster hype that clearly disturbs you, instead of taking in and digesting what is actually happening on the court. You seem to be missing the evolution of a very good young player...who might eventually be the franchise player that you don't think he can be, and who is an attraction for free agents, despite your thoughts on the matter

None of this is written in stone- maybe he's just going to be a very good player, but some of things he has one in his 12 game career are already turning many heads.

I gave some quotes from you and some threads you initiated, and remember some comments of yours about how Fisher should go easy with Porzingis and not rush things (have not heard you say the same thing about other specific rookies though- If I'm wrong about this, please show me.).

Since I'm not the only one whose commented about you, I expect that many have seen a posting pattern from you. I've taken crap for my take on Anthony, but, unlike your attitude with KP, Anthony has won me over for the most part with his play on the court and the leadership he is now showing that was not present in previous years.

If you don't see a pattern in your threads and posts concerning Porzingis that is your issue.

Watch the movie 12 Angry Men, if you have not already...kind of mirrors the way fan reaction to KP has gone. You look back to the reaction on draft night, then SL, then Pre-Season, and the start of the regular season, you see a progression as folks start to realize that the guy some condemned as a bust before he ever stepped on an NBA court...who at best, was 3 years away from being able to compete in this league, is perhaps better than anticipated and more ready to play in the NBA than anyone thought, including a strong supporter like myself.

Like the comment about me as Mr. Knicks gatekeeper of fandom, by the way...might have to use that in my signature. Not true, but funny.

Here is what keeps flying by you, it's not personal with KP..I do that to every overreaction..I comment on your constant pounding of JR..I comment on your constant pounding of TIMJR..I comment on your constant pounding of Melo...I comment on the constant pounding of Felton....I comment on the KP overblown statements...One of the last statements I made was that Grant would not start in ATL either...That's me defending a former KNICK TIMJR...So now I hate Grant and KP???...I commented on Lin too..But Lin I didn't like....

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:You know what's funny is that if you substitute KP for Melo, Mreinman and Chuck just turned into Melo homers.

He's the cutter. He's the shooter. How can he pass to himself

ha ha ha ha ...

Melo has a long way to go for me to be a melo homer. For now I will just take it game by game. Praise when he passes just decently and kill him when he chucks inefficiently.

I know you are not a Melo homer but what I am saying is that you two are using similar arguments for KP low ast numbers as the people you guys call homer/lovers of Melo when they argue why his ast are low.

The poster BBB gave you metrics of how KP doesn't generate points for others and you over look it. "watch the Games". What would happen if holfresh used that excuse? lol.

It is not a big deal I just thought it was funny.

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:You know what's funny is that if you substitute KP for Melo, Mreinman and Chuck just turned into Melo homers.

He's the cutter. He's the shooter. How can he pass to himself

ha ha ha ha ...

Melo has a long way to go for me to be a melo homer. For now I will just take it game by game. Praise when he passes just decently and kill him when he chucks inefficiently.

I know you are not a Melo homer but what I am saying is that you two are using similar arguments for KP low ast numbers as the people you guys call homer/lovers of Melo when they argue why his ast are low.

The poster BBB gave you metrics of how KP doesn't generate points for others and you over look it. "watch the Games". What would happen if holfresh used that excuse? lol.

It is not a big deal I just thought it was funny.

I did not dismiss it at all. I am interested in it and have been perusing passing stats like passes per touch.

KP passes a lot in the flow of the offense. Can't be looked at on B-ref.

Take Amare, his passes per touch were like never ... KP keeps the ball moving ... Never argued that you need to watch the games.

Yeah, you did.

How do you think that he does with passing per touch? He is not creating / forcing. He catches the ball and he keeps it moving. Have you watched the knicks play?

KP keeps the ball moving, he just doesn't really anything with a purpose with it.

Every Knicks except Early in his 4 mins and Thomas pass with a purpose more than he does.

This should be clear just by the eye test. When I first offered up just assists, you went to that well.

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:You know what's funny is that if you substitute KP for Melo, Mreinman and Chuck just turned into Melo homers.

He's the cutter. He's the shooter. How can he pass to himself

ha ha ha ha ...

Melo has a long way to go for me to be a melo homer. For now I will just take it game by game. Praise when he passes just decently and kill him when he chucks inefficiently.

I know you are not a Melo homer but what I am saying is that you two are using similar arguments for KP low ast numbers as the people you guys call homer/lovers of Melo when they argue why his ast are low.

The poster BBB gave you metrics of how KP doesn't generate points for others and you over look it. "watch the Games". What would happen if holfresh used that excuse? lol.

It is not a big deal I just thought it was funny.

I did not dismiss it at all. I am interested in it and have been perusing passing stats like passes per touch.

KP passes a lot in the flow of the offense. Can't be looked at on B-ref.

Take Amare, his passes per touch were like never ... KP keeps the ball moving ... Never argued that you need to watch the games. As far as melo, most of what I point out about his lack of passing is said in the game thread. There was a game that I pointed out (with you) that he could have had 10-12 assists if teammates hit shots.

Do you think that I am unfair to melo in my gripes about his lack of passing?

I think you are pretty fair. Also, this is not a jab it is just a commentary on how the debate read out like the numerous Melo passing debates.

fair enough ... keep me honest :-)

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:You know what's funny is that if you substitute KP for Melo, Mreinman and Chuck just turned into Melo homers.

He's the cutter. He's the shooter. How can he pass to himself

ha ha ha ha ...

Melo has a long way to go for me to be a melo homer. For now I will just take it game by game. Praise when he passes just decently and kill him when he chucks inefficiently.

I know you are not a Melo homer but what I am saying is that you two are using similar arguments for KP low ast numbers as the people you guys call homer/lovers of Melo when they argue why his ast are low.

The poster BBB gave you metrics of how KP doesn't generate points for others and you over look it. "watch the Games". What would happen if holfresh used that excuse? lol.

It is not a big deal I just thought it was funny.

I did not dismiss it at all. I am interested in it and have been perusing passing stats like passes per touch.

KP passes a lot in the flow of the offense. Can't be looked at on B-ref.

Take Amare, his passes per touch were like never ... KP keeps the ball moving ... Never argued that you need to watch the games.

Yeah, you did.

How do you think that he does with passing per touch? He is not creating / forcing. He catches the ball and he keeps it moving. Have you watched the knicks play?

KP keeps the ball moving, he just doesn't really anything with a purpose with it.

Every Knicks except Early in his 4 mins and Thomas pass with a purpose more than he does.

This should be clear just by the eye test. When I first offered up just assists, you went to that well.

did you check his passes per touch

If you have something of relevance to add and a point to add, just do it.

And you did play the "do you watch the games?" card, which you claimed not to.

ChuckBuck wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:"Focal Point" sure thing!

Which makes this statement wrong - "but this season is all about transitioning to KP as the focal point."

KP is the best player on this team and it's not even close.

That's beside the point you made that I responded to. More relevant to what we all want to occur is Melo will make Porzingis better, as Tues. so clearly demonstrated.

As to who's better, Porzingis has the potential to be better.

But his shot has to start falling at a higher rate than at least a slumping Melo (which it isn't at the moment) to make that declaration.

But again, much more relevant is they're both on the Knicks and very good for one another and if there are arguments to be made throughout the year which is better, that's a very good thing.

I, unlike others, hope it's a close, arguable race so long as they play with one another.

Worrying about who is better is a pursuit better left to bitter, fixated critics who are more concerned with their personal fetishes than than positive team things occurring.

Melo doesn't impact the game in all facets like KP does. Melo cannot seemingly guard 1 through 5 like KP does already.

Moot point.

You mean "no point".

They're BOTH on the Knicks, compliment one another very well, and the Knicks are better having both of them. Melo's presence and skill set makes KP better which makes the Knicks better.

What is the relevance of the question other than your personal axe to grind?

Bottom line is Knicks winning, and the formula for that is Melo playing 2nd fiddle and doing the other things like defending and distributing. Letting Afflalo hit some buckets, letting Kristaps get the shine. Stop getting butt hurt if your hero isn't the head tamale anymore.