WaltLongmire wrote:holfresh wrote:martin wrote:holfresh wrote:gunsnewing wrote:mreinman wrote:nyk4ever wrote:the beauty of "who would we take at #2" is if we actually DID have the #2 pick in the draft, im pretty sure we would have drafted okafor or russell and honestly, i think porzingis is better than everyone, maybe even towns. so in effect, winning those couple games at the end of the year actually helped the knicks because it made it easier to select porzingis at 4 rather than 2.
It also got atlanta to take THJ! How great was that?
The THJ for Grant deal was worth its weight in gold!
Grant wouldn't be playing in ATL either..
and this is exactly why posters are starting to get fed up with your posts. It's like you are rooting against the Knicks are aren't really a fan of the Knicks team or players.
Grant hasn't been perfect but he has been good and deserving of time.
The deal was Grant for THJ and they only thing you can think to post is maybe Grant wouldn't get minutes in ALT? Fuwk that type of post and that weak ass ****.
I'll step back..I don't really subscribe to group think..I have been on this board for 9 years..When have I ever rooted against the Knicks??..If differing opinions on approach to building a team is some how causing wholesale upheaval then I don't want to be the cause of that...
Grant plays a completely different position than THJ-Atlanta does not really need another PG although I read that they were interested in Payne, who was gone before pick 15...the real question is about why THJ is not playing, and whether it might have anything to do with why Phil traded him. Any significant thoughts on why he isn't playing in Atlanta, since you seem to have a higher opinion of him than two sets of coaches?
Atlanta had pick 15, and could have had prospects like Rashad Vaughn or Portis if they had kept the pick, so they seemed to believe that THJ could help replace the impending loss of Carroll. He might still emerge as a good player for them, but I find it surprising that he's been buried on their roster so far.
Don't think there is a group think thing that you're resisting, although it might be true that some are drinking a bit too much of the KP kool-aid at this point. These things go in cycles, anyway. Sure tastes good, though, and it seems plentiful right now. Rookies have their up and down moments, but I always look at the ups when they are very early in their career, because you figure they can work on their flaws for the most part. KP is giving all Knicks fans some hope for the future, a perhaps more interestingly...hope for this season.
Said this once before...draft picks are like children for a fan- you always overreact when they do things for the first time, and you tend use a great deal of hyperbole when describing them. Nothing out of the ordinary, as you yourself pointed out in an analogy at some point. You just seem to have affection for guys we did not, or could not, draft.
A lot of folks were against the KP pick. Some have admitted they overreacted...some have said he's better than they thought. I could be wrong, but I would think that someone who had your draft day (and later) reactions to Phil picking KP
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51638
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51634
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51615
might have expressed some surprise at how well he's played, how quickly he's adapted to the NBA, and how totally wrong you, like many of us, were wrong about how he might just be a draw for future FAs, or how he would initially deal with the physicality in the league.
I think the general excepted definition of rebuilding is thru draft picks and building around them as the focus of the team...If the Knicks are going after Durant, I doubt Porzingus is thought of as a piece to build around......I agree with most that said the KP may be a few years away..I think most here underestimate how difficult it is to get acclimated to playing a 82 game schedule...KP's conditioning in summer league doesn't seem like a guy ready to contribute in May and June after his first season of a 82 game NBA season...I think it will take him some time to adjust to the schedule while trying to strengthening his body for the NBA game. (holfresh 8/12)
You, though, are more likely to save your words of support for the guy you, but not Phil, wanted the Knicks to take-
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=52066&page=1
which is fine, but at some point your comments sound as if they are coming from a troll, and people are reacting to them in the same way you would react to how some (including myself) have gone after Anthony at times.And this kind of thread is also a backhanded method of attacking Porzingis, even though you would just say you're reporting the "news."
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=52308
Talking about KPs existing flaws is one thing, but in the past you've attempted to portray the guy as a child who should be coddled by Fisher and given minutes sparingly, or as a guy who was knocked about like a rag doll in SL. After the Cavs game you cherry-picked some poor play and seemed to forget that he had almost completely neutralized Love's game on the offensive end and had a pretty good game.
I could go on about Mudiay's flaws ad nauseam...talk about the fact that he may be the worst on ball defender I've seen in the NBA, but what's the point- he's still young and he's not on my team. You have no issues taking shots at Porzingis, though.
I do know one thing for sure- you would be chirping like a CO2 alarm in need of a battery if Porzingis looked like he needed another 3 years to develop and Mudiay was shooting over 31% and not playing CBA style D in the mile high city. I dreaded the thought of having to "go to battle" in support of KP if he seemed like he was not ready for this league. Thankfully for me, he's been a dream rookie starting with his play in SL, and he appears to be getting better.
You seem totally unwilling to give credit where credit is due, or speculate that even though we "tanked on the tank," we might have lucked out and gotten a player who can be something special down the road. Lots of folks besides guys on this forum are taking notice of him, and the term "franchise player" has been uttered by many in the media and NBA community when commenting on Porzingis. No Darko/Bargs talk and no laughing at Phil's pick. The only laughter is being directed toward that know nothing dad and his selfie son who you gave a shout out to on draft night and empathized with:
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51624
From what I've read you seem to have an interest in certain players which overrides any loyalty to this team. That's fine, but it would seem that you reserve many of your most spirited comments to defend guys we got rid of or being critical of players now on the team.
I know that if we had taken Mudiay, Winslow, or even the dreaded Stein, I would have been pissed off, tried to figure out why Phil took the player he took, and then gone on being a Knicks fan and supporting the player. Did that with Hill, who I definitely did not want a few years ago, and with Shumpert. There is frequently some self-deception involved if you are a fan, but that is part of supporting a team, I suppose.
In KP we seem to have gotten a kid who is a competitor and a baller, as well as an intelligent gym rat. Grant was a successful college player and leader who is still looking for a comfort zone on this team and some NBA confidence. These guys are a large part of this team's future at this moment, and KP looks like a guy you can build a team around. Might be time to come to terms with the fact that comparisons with other picks aside...we got what appears to be a franchise quality player in KP. Still a long way to go, but the fact that we can imagine him being a top 10 star in the league at some point does not sound as ridiculous as it might have sounded on draft night.
First of all, If it were your intention of presenting a balanced case against me, regarding KP and my attacks on KP, I would respect that..The fact that this is your second attempt to cast me as someone attacking KP and again I ask you to present the facts...But this seems to be your MO..You say things for which I have called you on, repeatedly, that bears no facts..Regarding ESPN rookie of the year projections, I post ESPN player rankings, team rankings, especially when Knicks are involved over the years...Please do look that up as well, as you have conveniently omitted all the other rankings I have posted over the years..It must be that I'm picking on KP...This very year, when I posted ESPN player ranking, I was accused of picking on Knick players and Phil...But what about the other years I have posted these same rankings???..Maybe I'm picking on Melo's low ESPN ranking...You are searching for something that isn't there, which is fine, I'm a big boy...
Talking about KPs existing flaws is one thing, but in the past you've attempted to portray the guy as a child who should be coddled by Fisher and given minutes sparingly, or as a guy who was knocked about like a rag doll in SL. After the Cavs game you cherry-picked some poor play and seemed to forget that he had almost completely neutralized Love's game on the offensive end and had a pretty good game.
Please show me what you are referring to...Again, please show me...I talk about the 82 game schedule and getting acclimated to the rigors of the NBA in the cases of all rookies, not just KP..In this very thread, I think in another discussions with making assessments after 10 games, my response was let's see who is standing out of the rookie class after they hit the rookie wall before making such judgement..It is my philosophy that some players regardless of talent, aren't mentally built for the 82 game schedule and the demands of the NBA so they fade as players..But you think it was a personal attack on KP...I can't help that, you are still searching...
From what I've read you seem to have an interest in certain players which overrides any loyalty to this team. That's fine, but it would seem that you reserve many of your most spirited comments to defend guys we got rid of or being critical of players now on the team.
No you want me to parrot your ideas, agree to the things you imagine to happen with no proof...When I defend certain players because your accusations bear nothing related to reality, you say I'm putting player ahead of team or players not on the team..Do me a favor, talk facts you have seen and not imagined and you won't have to worry about me..Anyway, you won't have to worry about me fact checking you going forward...
I know that if we had taken Mudiay, Winslow, or even the dreaded Stein, I would have been pissed off, tried to figure out why Phil took the player he took, and then gone on being a Knicks fan and supporting the player. Did that with Hill, who I definitely did not want a few years ago, and with Shumpert. There is frequently some self-deception involved if you are a fan, but that is part of supporting a team, I suppose.
WTF does that mean???..Why would you question anyone's fandom who post on this board about every conceivable topic, ever???...And who do you think you are, Mr. Knick gatekeeper of fandom??..And shockingly, I have seen the same people taking shots at me start Knugget threads in the main forum and openly root against the Knicks...Yet I'm the bad fan, it's comical..
And so what if I thought Mudiay was a better pick, why does that have everyone panties in bunches??? Why does everyone care so much???..It's a freaking opinion...Do I really have that much sway???..I need to bottle it and sell it...Dudes are having boners claiming holfresh got it wrong, comical..
11/19/2015 6:30 PM LAST EDITED: 11/19/2015 9:01 PM
