BRIGGS wrote:Get the best two amateur PGs who are salaried controlled for 4-8 years

Who is the best addition we had this year BY far? KP--not our 29 year old FA. Getting a Lee a Turner--were just taking another Affalo in a sense--just throwing sht together that has no chance of working.

Instead USE a STRATEGY of using assets to acquire a mid 1 and a high 2 to acquire the TWO BEST play makers in CBB. We get legs that are 21 and 22 and we dont have to pay them 17mm a year.

We need playmakers spacers athleticism energy--we need so many things--we DONT just need a set of two new PGs that we have to overpay to see them on IR for 20 games. Its just more excuses. Get guys who make other players better and can be with us a long time.

Im not set on Wroten and Grant as PG--they are BOTh wild with the ball--not good passers.

crzymdups wrote:

callmened wrote:um how?

+1

Plus 1 and 2 children under 3

callmened wrote:um how?

IF we keep Melo there are 3 teams with three picks each in rd 1. We simply trade them a future restricted to 7 pick for a15-18 pick if Valentine is still there--if I have to throw in Grant---good bye.

I feel we can simply buy a a 2nd rounder for 2mm or so in the 35-45 range.

This makes a LOT more sense than chasing free agent with 25 other teams overpaying for guys who are going to be another Affalo. Affalo was good too--a close to 20 pt scorer and still 28--thats not working.

NO WAY all three teams take 3+++ picks for themselves especially the Cs/

yellowboy90 wrote:see...

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=54040

carte blanche

nixluva wrote:We've gone over this! Phil wants the Triangle to work and in the Triangle what you want are big athletic guards and wing players that have PG type passing skills but are capable scorers, able to dribble drive, attack the rim, push the ball and get early buckets. You want them to be able to make good passes but also be able to play without the ball. A pure PG that has to have the ball in his hands and lots of PnR in order to be effective isn't really the ideal for this style of ball. We saw the type of player we need to look for with Shved. Only this time I hope we can get someone who is a bit stronger than he was.

This offense uses more Dribble hand offs as opposed to a lot of PnR in this offense so you want big SG's that can get to the rim and have the aggressiveness, athletic ability and size to score at the basket but also be able to hit a shot and make plays for their teammates. So think Big Athletic Combo Guard when you're thinking about what Phil is most likely going to want.

Valentine is 6-6. Crabbe is 6-6. I disagree that you cant have one guy under 6-0 feet when the guy can play at the rim and is the best passer/penetrator in CBB. There is a flexibility line. You need a guy in todays NBA that can create pace amd cam get their own shot---just like Isiaih Thomas J Barea etc.. These players will be here way longer than Phil.

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:We've gone over this! Phil wants the Triangle to work and in the Triangle what you want are big athletic guards and wing players that have PG type passing skills but are capable scorers, able to dribble drive, attack the rim, push the ball and get early buckets. You want them to be able to make good passes but also be able to play without the ball. A pure PG that has to have the ball in his hands and lots of PnR in order to be effective isn't really the ideal for this style of ball. We saw the type of player we need to look for with Shved. Only this time I hope we can get someone who is a bit stronger than he was.

This offense uses more Dribble hand offs as opposed to a lot of PnR in this offense so you want big SG's that can get to the rim and have the aggressiveness, athletic ability and size to score at the basket but also be able to hit a shot and make plays for their teammates. So think Big Athletic Combo Guard when you're thinking about what Phil is most likely going to want.

Valentine is 6-6. Crabbe is 6-6. I disagree that you cant have one guy under 6-0 feet when the guy can play at the rim and is the best passer/penetrator in CBB. There is a flexibility line. You need a guy in todays NBA that can create pace amd cam get their own shot---just like Isiaih Thomas J Barea etc.. These players will be here way longer than Phil.

I wasn't saying that YOU were wrong in suggesting a player like Valentine. I was just reiterating the facts about how Phil looks at things. It's been clear from the kinds of players he's targeted most of his career and here in NY.

Now it's fine for very small guards to have success in other places, but that has nothing to do with what PHIL is likely to do and last I checked PHIL is still the one doing the selecting of who he goes after. The only opinion that matters is PHIL's. He's not looking for an Isaiah Thomas or JJ Barea, no matter how effective they may be for other teams. Phil may end up adding a guard that is short but that isn't his preference. If he had a similar level player that was bigger, my bet is he takes the bigger guard.

I have no problem with your targets but I must say it's extremely difficult to pull off what you're asking. Getting the picks is one thing but then how do you ensure that you land the players you've targeted specifically? It's not a plan as much as a direction you can go. Heck even when you have high picks you can't guarantee getting what you need. Ask Philly about that.

You know what--good players win games. Im just looking for good players. I dont think Phil would not be flexible looking how the NBA is played today. If you can find a guard who can change the dynamics with speed / skills and can get a guy like that for basically nothing--thats a smart move. We have to become a smart team. Im not so sure guys like Early Galloway Grant Wroten are high IQ players. They have talent--but their all wild in a sense--youre not winning like that. Guys like Thomas Barea Felder--theyre great because they also think the game.

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:We've gone over this! Phil wants the Triangle to work and in the Triangle what you want are big athletic guards and wing players that have PG type passing skills but are capable scorers, able to dribble drive, attack the rim, push the ball and get early buckets. You want them to be able to make good passes but also be able to play without the ball. A pure PG that has to have the ball in his hands and lots of PnR in order to be effective isn't really the ideal for this style of ball. We saw the type of player we need to look for with Shved. Only this time I hope we can get someone who is a bit stronger than he was.

This offense uses more Dribble hand offs as opposed to a lot of PnR in this offense so you want big SG's that can get to the rim and have the aggressiveness, athletic ability and size to score at the basket but also be able to hit a shot and make plays for their teammates. So think Big Athletic Combo Guard when you're thinking about what Phil is most likely going to want.

Valentine is 6-6. Crabbe is 6-6. I disagree that you cant have one guy under 6-0 feet when the guy can play at the rim and is the best passer/penetrator in CBB. There is a flexibility line. You need a guy in todays NBA that can create pace amd cam get their own shot---just like Isiaih Thomas J Barea etc.. These players will be here way longer than Phil.

I wasn't saying that YOU were wrong in suggesting a player like Valentine. I was just reiterating the facts about how Phil looks at things. It's been clear from the kinds of players he's targeted most of his career and here in NY.

Now it's fine for very small guards to have success in other places, but that has nothing to do with what PHIL is likely to do and last I checked PHIL is still the one doing the selecting of who he goes after. The only opinion that matters is PHIL's. He's not looking for an Isaiah Thomas or JJ Barea, no matter how effective they may be for other teams. Phil may end up adding a guard that is short but that isn't his preference. If he had a similar level player that was bigger, my bet is he takes the bigger guard.

I have no problem with your targets but I must say it's extremely difficult to pull off what you're asking. Getting the picks is one thing but then how do you ensure that you land the players you've targeted specifically? It's not a plan as much as a direction you can go. Heck even when you have high picks you can't guarantee getting what you need. Ask Philly about that.

You know what--good players win games. Im just looking for good players. I dont think Phil would not be flexible looking how the NBA is played today. If you can find a guard who can change the dynamics with speed / skills and can get a guy like that for basically nothing--thats a smart move. We have to become a smart team. Im not so sure guys like Early Galloway Grant Wroten are high IQ players. They have talent--but their all wild in a sense--youre not winning like that. Guys like Thomas Barea Felder--theyre great because they also think the game.

Jerian was considered a very smart Player when we drafted him. His struggles may not have anything to do with his lack of BB IQ. It could have a lot to do with his having to change his game to fit a different style of offense, plus his need to improve his shooting and his physical strength for the NBA level. The idea is to develop guys like Wroten, Early, Gallo, Jerian and even Thanasis. The hope is that you can coach them up over time and improve their understanding of the game.

These players you're promoting may well be the right players but how do you guarantee that we get these specific players?

There is no guarantee in anything. Can you guarantee me that we will hit gold in free agency with 25 other teams who have massive cap space? There are 22 more teams with MORE cap space. Obviously no there is no way to guarantee anything.

What I would be willing to give up??? a 2018 #1 pick with low restricted and Grant to get Valentine. A 2 and cash for a 2 to get Felder IF hes even there and Id like to get one of Derrick Jones or Bryn Forbes Im looking at 3 younger players--all guards. We need that.

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:We've gone over this! Phil wants the Triangle to work and in the Triangle what you want are big athletic guards and wing players that have PG type passing skills but are capable scorers, able to dribble drive, attack the rim, push the ball and get early buckets. You want them to be able to make good passes but also be able to play without the ball. A pure PG that has to have the ball in his hands and lots of PnR in order to be effective isn't really the ideal for this style of ball. We saw the type of player we need to look for with Shved. Only this time I hope we can get someone who is a bit stronger than he was.

This offense uses more Dribble hand offs as opposed to a lot of PnR in this offense so you want big SG's that can get to the rim and have the aggressiveness, athletic ability and size to score at the basket but also be able to hit a shot and make plays for their teammates. So think Big Athletic Combo Guard when you're thinking about what Phil is most likely going to want.

Valentine is 6-6. Crabbe is 6-6. I disagree that you cant have one guy under 6-0 feet when the guy can play at the rim and is the best passer/penetrator in CBB. There is a flexibility line. You need a guy in todays NBA that can create pace amd cam get their own shot---just like Isiaih Thomas J Barea etc.. These players will be here way longer than Phil.

I wasn't saying that YOU were wrong in suggesting a player like Valentine. I was just reiterating the facts about how Phil looks at things. It's been clear from the kinds of players he's targeted most of his career and here in NY.

Now it's fine for very small guards to have success in other places, but that has nothing to do with what PHIL is likely to do and last I checked PHIL is still the one doing the selecting of who he goes after. The only opinion that matters is PHIL's. He's not looking for an Isaiah Thomas or JJ Barea, no matter how effective they may be for other teams. Phil may end up adding a guard that is short but that isn't his preference. If he had a similar level player that was bigger, my bet is he takes the bigger guard.

I have no problem with your targets but I must say it's extremely difficult to pull off what you're asking. Getting the picks is one thing but then how do you ensure that you land the players you've targeted specifically? It's not a plan as much as a direction you can go. Heck even when you have high picks you can't guarantee getting what you need. Ask Philly about that.

You know what--good players win games. Im just looking for good players. I dont think Phil would not be flexible looking how the NBA is played today. If you can find a guard who can change the dynamics with speed / skills and can get a guy like that for basically nothing--thats a smart move. We have to become a smart team. Im not so sure guys like Early Galloway Grant Wroten are high IQ players. They have talent--but their all wild in a sense--youre not winning like that. Guys like Thomas Barea Felder--theyre great because they also think the game.

Barea sucks ... but maybe you judged him in that quarter against Jose.

Barea is a good solid nBA player.

Felder is a specimen. Hes part Nate Robinson part Tim Hardaway part Isiah Thomas(Boston). To lead the nation in both scoring and assist--I dont remember the last guy to do that. He makes the game easier for his teammates--he wont have to shoot as much in the NBA and hes easily the best passer along with Valentine in CBB. He has the best body control in CBB and he pares that with incredible handle and speed. Wait until this guy goes to the nBA with all of the space there is. The one thing that Id like to see him do is get the 3 pt shot from .35 to .38 and hes going to do that. Watch in the video from the other night--always moving forward never side to side. Moves the ball with speed either with a pass or the dribble. Uses power and quickness to create space. Get to the FT line easy as he bangs off other players and creates contact.