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Ray Rice Video.....
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Nalod
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9/8/2014  11:35 AM
Im sure most have seen the elevator clip now and its disturbing.

Many Celebs are lashing out and calling for the NFL to have done more.

Nalod need bring up that while these acts are dispicable and bad for the NFL image, I just question that we should let due process of the law take priority and pretty much get a grip.
Football is a violent sport and we cheer the bloodlust it offers. I think the pandering to the hypocritical base and waiving our finger at them via TMZ and we all being coming prudes is geting out of hand.

Justin Beiber maybe an ass, but he is just another idiot young rockstar who is acting badly but in an age where we all carry video cameras in our pockets its public news. He is acting out like most rebellous young rockstars have done in the past. What, was Jim Morrison a good role model for teens? Ozzie Ozborn? Worship them but don't want your kids to? Hyprcritcal!!!

Ray Rice as long as he scores touchdowns is all that matters. If his wife wants to get knocked upside the head then marry him a month later and not press charges than is it a private matter?
The fact it was caught on tape and distributed makes it a "league matter"? I get it, but this is s league that didn't care about PED's or anything but profits.
By these standards JR smith should be Banned by the league!

Here is my suggestion:

If a guy gets caught with weed then if the team wants to void his contract they can. Not fair to the player but if he adheres to the rules he is good. If he sucks, is injury prone and he smokes weed he is vulnerable. Kind of like my business. Do good business and clients like you nobody gets fired for small stuff. Suck at your job then get arrested for drugs, then its obvious you are not taking your job seriously.

If Payton Manning wants to smoke dope legally in Colorado and can score lots of touchdowns and if its fine with his employer, so be it. If he Smokes, gets injury prone and his employer does not want him, let him go.
Might say the same for cigarettes. Its legal but not condusive to health. Guys that smoke tobacco are prone to back problems. Guy wants to smoke cig's and can run a 4.40 thats good. He starts weezing and can't, then he can't do his job. Test for Cocaine, thats fine. Sign a waiver that if you have a heart attack you don't hold team responsible. Want to take time off and go to rehab and can't play? Suspended. THats if your good, if not, buh bye.


Suspend Ray Rice? Instead of suspending players without pay LET HIM PLAY AND DONATE HIS PAY TO WOMENS SHELTER AND MAKE HIM ATTEND ANGER MANAGEMENT AS WELL!

DUI, Suspend the player? No, let him play but his pay for those games go to drug AND ALCHOL counseling. He still has to deal with his legal problems AND DO COMMUNITY SERVICE.

Weed. Its gonna be legal soon. if the guys is a freaking pot head and his play is declining then he should be cut. If he is clean but in decline and being professional on and off the field and trying then his contract sticks. No change.

Money is the motivating factor here.

Imagine Ray Rice having a big game and winning in a game he was playing for battered women and he could say "today I played for those women hurt by violence and I helped them. I also regret my actions and have come to learn and accept my role as a man in this world........blah, blah, blah, praise Jesus and my mother"............crowd would go nuts and perhaps that also brings a wider message!

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newyorknewyork
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9/8/2014  12:22 PM
I didn't think it would be as bad as it was after Goodell gave such a light penalty. After watching it though its just horrible. Looks like he instigated it as well the way he was up in her ear. I was a big fan of the dude since his Rutgers days. But he looks like a straight savage. At the same time I dont think he flat out punched her. I think her head smacked against the way which did the damage but I have to see it again.
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Nalod
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9/8/2014  1:02 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:I didn't think it would be as bad as it was after Goodell gave such a light penalty. After watching it though its just horrible. Looks like he instigated it as well the way he was up in her ear. I was a big fan of the dude since his Rutgers days. But he looks like a straight savage. At the same time I dont think he flat out punched her. I think her head smacked against the way which did the damage but I have to see it again.

I That video shows little except the hit. Who instigated it or not is not important.

Thats my point about judging what Goodell did or did not do.

Im sure the union don't want players playing for free but its their choice. Play and donate the money or sit.

Wes Welker should play and not get paid for 4 games (Unless concussion is an issue).

EnySpree
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9/8/2014  1:29 PM
We've talked about this before as far as hitting women goes. This video is super disturbing. I don't think this guy is going to be able to step on the field or anywhere in life without someone stepping to him on this. Like really Ray Rice? Smh
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gunsnewing
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9/8/2014  1:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/8/2014  1:42 PM
NFL really dropped the ball. Should of came down harder to begin with. The most Unfortunate and serious thing is that she is now married to him. For now at least
BRIGGS
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9/8/2014  2:15 PM
gunsnewing wrote:NFL really dropped the ball. Should of came down harder to begin with. The most Unfortunate and serious thing is that she is now married to him. For now at least

Smoke dope dropped for a year. Deck a 120 pound lady 2 games. Thing is if it were worse and he was banned--IF she was really with him--it would hurt her by having his salary gone.

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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9/8/2014  2:44 PM
Ravens terminate Ray Rice's contract. Done gonzo.

Now that he has no $ how does that help Ray and his wife? If she really did get back with him and they worked it out, it would behoove her to say something highly positive of him very quickly.

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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9/8/2014  3:10 PM
Almost worse than the punch is how he dragged and dropped her out of the elevator like she was a piece of meat. That to me is worse than the punch in many ways--he couldve killed her with that punch but she did come at him and had previously swung at him. Certainly no reason to hit a women but I dont like what he did after the punch.
RIP Crushalot😞
Nalod
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9/8/2014  3:27 PM

First off, I don't condone any domestic violence or any violence at all. Never a reason to hit a women.

I don't see what has changed from the original verdict. He hit her and she was knocked out. WE know this. WE knew this. Goodell got it wrong AFTER the public cried about it. Whats next, voting online?

Ray Rice had a ****ty last season so this is all good for them to release him? Cuz TMZ got the video out?

What if this was a dude? Say that was her brother and they were arguing, he went to push Ray and Ray knocks him out. Then what? Does he lose his contract?
He can't be prosecuted anymore by the legal system but the NFL?

Sorry, I believe in due process and think the NFL should be in concert with the legal system and basically catogorize infractions to suspensions. A felony is a felany and based on its class is how it gets punished, same for the League. Mistemeaner as well. Be fair.

These rules should have been in place long before this happened. In no circumstances should Weed use be a longer suspension than battery but it just shows how stupid the league has been and now continues to be.

earthmansurfer
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9/8/2014  4:00 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:NFL really dropped the ball. Should of came down harder to begin with. The most Unfortunate and serious thing is that she is now married to him. For now at least

Smoke dope dropped for a year. Deck a 120 pound lady 2 games. Thing is if it were worse and he was banned--IF she was really with him--it would hurt her by having his salary gone.

Not to drag this off topic, but it really does show where the NFL, Corporate America, Govt., etc. really have their priorities.
An un-patentable medicinal plant that helps to reduce pain and is extremely safe (thousands of years of use) is illegal, while patentable money making liver/kidney destroying drugs are legal.
At least these asinine laws are starting to change. And we are a few months or short years away from the players union getting Cannabis approved.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
nixluva
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9/8/2014  4:12 PM
Totally disappointed by Rice and the NFL. Can't have botched this up any worse. They should've sought out help from Women's groups that specialize in domestic violence and also law enforcement to learn the best approach to handling this. They look crass and insensitive. The policy is way out of touch and wrong headed. Now they look have a big mess on their hands.
Nalod
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9/8/2014  4:32 PM
ESPN had Linda Cohn and another women talking about it. Whats next, Gay men to discuss Michael Sam? Espn comes off looking sensitive when in fact they are just promoting what we do here which is judge and discuss.
smackeddog
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9/8/2014  4:51 PM
Nalod wrote:
First off, I don't condone any domestic violence or any violence at all. Never a reason to hit a women.

I don't see what has changed from the original verdict. He hit her and she was knocked out. WE know this. WE knew this. Goodell got it wrong AFTER the public cried about it. Whats next, voting online?

Ray Rice had a ****ty last season so this is all good for them to release him? Cuz TMZ got the video out?

What if this was a dude? Say that was her brother and they were arguing, he went to push Ray and Ray knocks him out. Then what? Does he lose his contract?
He can't be prosecuted anymore by the legal system but the NFL?

Sorry, I believe in due process and think the NFL should be in concert with the legal system and basically catogorize infractions to suspensions. A felony is a felany and based on its class is how it gets punished, same for the League. Mistemeaner as well. Be fair.

These rules should have been in place long before this happened. In no circumstances should Weed use be a longer suspension than battery but it just shows how stupid the league has been and now continues to be.

Because there's a difference between hearing what someone did and then actually seeing it. Sometimes you see something and you just feel sick.

NardDogNation
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9/8/2014  5:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/8/2014  5:32 PM
The NFL suspended Ray Rice, a second time, as they should've to protect their image. As a side, I don't know Ray Rice and doubt I'd like him if I met him in real life BUT if this chick still married him, are we entitled to judge him?
NardDogNation
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9/8/2014  6:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/8/2014  6:48 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Nalod wrote:Sorry, I believe in due process and think the NFL should be in concert with the legal system and basically catogorize infractions to suspensions. A felony is a felany and based on its class is how it gets punished, same for the League. Mistemeaner as well. Be fair.


One of the reasons that the NFL far outstrips both MLB and the NBA and keeps the NHL far far far from the pack is that the game appeals to the female audience. I'm not saying there aren't women who like baseball or basketball or hockey, but the market share is a whole different ballgame.

Women, in America, watch television disproportionately more than men on the average.

Women, in most American married households, and even in most non married households, are usually the primary decision makers for consumer purchases.

The reason the NFL bends the knee Game Of Thrones style to women and feminists and the female audience is because they collectively have a lot of purchasing power and they have a strong lobby from a political standpoint. The NFL spends a full month wearing pink on the field for breast cancer. However every single male in this forum will likely get prostate cancer if they live long enough. But the NFL could give a flying **** about prostate cancer.

The NFL is pretending it hasn't seen his recently released film, while it probably has. Now it has to react to show it's "doing something" about the issue.

Modern American society isn't that complicated in terms of "sacred cows", you simply cannot say anything negative at all, even about issues of merit, regarding

- African Americans
- Homosexual
- Women in general
- Jews
- Liberals

Without being immediately attacked and having a powerful lobby threaten your sponsors.

Because that is exactly what will happen. Feminist lobbyists will reach out to the NFL and say we will contact and protect all of your sponsors and tell them we will encourage all women to never buy Product X again, and see if we can't find some nice tidy class action law suit to start, unless you give us what we want. Money, jobs, influence.

This is not about "fair", it's about money. If women had zero buying power and zero lobbying power in this country, you'd see Hooters are the national sponsor for the NFL.

Roger Goodell, in his defense, and not to his defense, has to consider precedent. If you ban Player X for doing this at this point, you can't wildly ban Player Y for something close to that type of behavior later. He brought some of this on himself by being totally punitive in his punishments the past few years. You keep bringing down the hammer, people expect you to keep it up. But to see it from his side, this was not exactly fully charted territory for the league and discipline. He has to do enough to lend the perception of discipline but not so much he hurts the on field product ( hence the drug policy is changing, too many players are getting suspended, it hurts the product to have that many guys get suspended for half a season or the full year. Again, it's about money)

When Jeremy Lin had a bad game, Jason Whitlock said in Twitter that some girl would "feel two inches of pain tonight", feeding into the negative stereotype of Asian men and their physical endowment. If Whitlock was white or Asian and Lin was black, he would have been fired. Instead he had to apologize and got a little suspension. Chris Paul said a while back he'd prefer to play for a black coach. Didn't ruffle too many feathers. Imagine if Chris Paul was white and said he wanted to play for a white coach?

If a team cuts a heterosexual player for Michael Sam, it's called progress.

If a team won't sign Michael Sam because they don't want the media circus, they must be bigots and racist and horrible human beings and they should lose their jobs and suffer and burn in hell.

Unfortunately IMHO, one of the traits of our current American over feminized liberal political correct establishment is the lack of forgiveness implied. How can you extort money and jobs and influence when you do things like show tolerance and forgive?

That's the world we live in right now , guys, if the Titanic sinks and you don't give up your seat in a lifeboat to a woman, you are coward and a pig. But you still have to buy her an engagement ring and get on your knee if you want to get married. Why shouldn't she buy you an engagement ring? Why shouldn't she woo you and lavish you with gifts on Valentines Day? Why shouldn't she ask you out instead of waiting for some guy to ask her out. Why can't she open the door for you? Offer you a jacket when you are cold?

Sometimes you are wrong because you did something wrong, but sometimes you are wrong simply for being a man in today's society.

I don't condone what Ray Rice did. I think it was vile and stupid and weak. But for anyone to think actual forgiveness or tolerance would come of this, I don't know what to say. This is just another money/power/influence grab by some folks out there looking for the next big entity with cash to burn to leverage out. The sad thing is, I doubt many of these feminist groups actaully care about Janay Parker. They just want to know what they can get out of the NFL so that they don't lobby against the NFL's sponsors.

The people who demand tolerance the most are the least likely to give it. An irony of life.

And the intolerant are more likely to be tolerant? You're not making sense.

I agree that political correctness has run a mock but we all have to play by the rules whether we're gay, Jewish, Black, liberal, etc. You just choose to ignore the instances where members of these groups are reprimanded for "insensitive" comments, like when Rob Parker, a black ESPN columnist, was fired for calling RGIII a "cornball brother" because he was a Republican; or when Shirley Sherrod was fired from the USDA, for racial comments that turned out to not be racist at all. I know those facts will interrupt your conservative pity-party but it won't change the facts as they are.

nyvector16
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9/8/2014  8:50 PM
I thought what Ray Rice did was despicable.. and that was weeks back when the only video available was him dragging his unconscious girlfriend out of the elevator.

Stephen A. Smith said some stupid things talking about the victimization of men when what we had in right in front of us was proof positive that this woman was indeed the victim in this situation....
I started a thread about it that revealed I was in the extreme minority on how strongly I felt about the matter.

I wonder how the posters who tried to spin the whole thing into a victimization of men dialogue feel about this now...
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=48041

I was going to add to that thread after that piece of garbage "War Machine" almost murdered Christy Mack but decided it was not worth it as obviously to me I could not change attitudes on this subject.
This thread is a pleasant surprise....

I am glad for those of you on this forum who did not stand idly by as another piece of evidence proves what many of us already knew... The guy should have been punished much more severely that he did and anyone with a mouthpiece in the media that stood up for this jerk deserved what backlash they got.

gunsnewing
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9/8/2014  9:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/8/2014  9:09 PM
everyone agrees that Rice is a POS. My points in that thread was in regards to how women are growing up in a society where violence is promoted in the media. Just look at any reality tv shows, they are all instigators. There is no more respect respect for men or anyone for that matter. The more technological advances we make the dumber we get as people. Morality goes out the window.

In this particular case this woman is clearly the victim. Regardless of what went on prior to them entering that elevator. You never hit a woman period.

Stephen A was off base because instead of focusing on women in today's society and his point got off to a good start when he mentioned he grew up in a house full of women, unfortunately he took a more violent stand that only makes matters worse. He suggested that women who hit better be ready to be hit back and now he went from espn radio to sirius.

NardDogNation
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9/8/2014  9:37 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/8/2014  9:46 PM
gunsnewing wrote:everyone agrees that Rice is a POS. My points in that thread was in regards to how women are growing up in a society where violence is promoted in the media. Just look at any reality tv shows, they are all instigators. There is no more respect respect for men or anyone for that matter. The more technological advances we make the dumber we get as people. Morality goes out the window.

In this particular case this woman is clearly the victim. Regardless of what went on prior to them entering that elevator. You never hit a woman period.

Stephen A was off base because instead of focusing on women in today's society and his point got off to a good start when he mentioned he grew up in a house full of women, unfortunately he took a more violent stand that only makes matters worse. He suggested that women who hit better be ready to be hit back and now he went from espn radio to sirius.

All Stephen A suggested is that woman should understand what provokes men (e.g. hitting them and making threatening remarks) and that they shouldn't do those things. That was the extent of his comments; no idiot would outright lobby for the right to hit women. Those men do exist but it's not like they represent a significant portion of the population.

gunsnewing
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9/8/2014  9:41 PM
That's not the way women took it. They got him to apologize then he was suspended from espn.

Unfortunately there are too many talking heads, too many double standards in everything from this to politics. Its the world we live in 2014. People in general suck at life

NardDogNation
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9/8/2014  9:44 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
nyvector16 wrote:I wonder how the posters who tried to spin the whole thing into a victimization of men dialogue feel about this now...
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=48041


Bill Burr did a 7-8 minute segment in his stand up comedy act about this subject.

I'm not trying to make light of the subject nor trying to trivialize how people feel. But I think he brings up some really good points ( i.e. if you can't openly discuss a tough topic, how can two sides ever get to the point of finding answers or society in general find answers?)

I don't think it's impossible for two separate but valid issues to exist at the same time.

1) That, in general, men should not hit women nor harm them physically.

and

2) That, in general, there are double standards in place that simply work against men in this issue that don't apply to women at all.

I'm not saying Ray Rice should be forgiven, but I am saying that it says something about how men and women and society perceive and behave on these topics where there really are no social mechanisms in place to do anything but vilify Ray Rice and burn him at the stake, without any tolerance for other dialogue except what seems to be the mainstream liberal and politically correct view of the subject.

Michael Sam says treat me on merit as a player and by my skill set, not by whom I sleep with.

But in reality, to actually do so, these coaches and professional franchises will still have to take a defensive posture to guard against a liberal pro gay media looking to sensationalize the next headline for ratings or site hits or magazine sales to simply justify that they aren't a bunch of bigots.

IMHO, tolerance is needed, but not at the nominal cost of socially acceptable extortion.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjQnha99sTY

Liberal agendas are generally anti-establishment and anti-consolidation of power. Are you dense enough to think the media serves that end? Who do you think owns and operates the media? The average Joe? Are they the ones that support these companies with their advertisements?

As a side, I'm a big fan of Bill Burr and he shares the same sentiments about the media and gender relations. That being said, I don't think Ray Rice needs your or my "foregiveness". Last I checked, he didn't do anything to harm us. He does need to seek that forgiveness from his then-fiance and now wife but considering that they've since been married since the incident, I think it's safe to say that he has it.

Ray Rice Video.....

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