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D'antoni's Offense
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EnySpree
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11/10/2009  4:06 PM
I'm seeing a lot of crying about D'antoni not "running the offense through" certain people....or making the team take too many 3pters and only jumpers.

On offense, D'antoni's plan is flawless. The flaw is the decision making ability of the main guys.

Case in point.....Duhon hit 2 3's in a row against Utah...he follows that up with a near half court 3 that ignites a Utah fast break. Wtf was he thinking?

Think is he isn't thinking. He's not even reacting....he's just a Guy out there play basketball over his head.

Wilson Chandler is also guilty of taking shots he doesn't wanna take but thinks he's taking the shots coach wants. Every step is a cautious one....last night against Utah the shots just went in. That doesn't men he played well. He actually had a terrible game his body language still reeked of confusion.

Wilson's main problem is he is jacked up about taking an open shot. Watching "the D'antoni show" you understand D'antoni wants easy baskets. He leaves options for everyone. Guys simply have to play their game. Instead of taking a jumper wilson needs to put it on the floor and do his thing. The offense calls for it.

Enter Toney Douglas and a dude like nate. They understand how to take advantage of the options. Toney was manificent cuz he just reacted and played the game. Everything was in the flow.

Al Harrington has this go to Guy complex. He keeps taking on double teams and forcing action. He continues to fade away when he doesn't need to.

Bottom line D'antoni's offense is not the prob. The Knicks just aren't that good. As the rotation evolves and guys get comfortable and study tape they will get better. Jared and Duhon are momentum killers. Playing them 30 Mins a game is suicide.

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Marv
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11/10/2009  4:55 PM
i'm not convinced. after the first half of last night's game i would have been happy to see fired. no movement on anyone's part toward the hoop. outside brick after outside brick. no adjustments on 's part. imo a horrible offense for this team and horrible coaching.

dude has GOT to set plays where's more movement, cutting, screens, finding the guy underneath.

Bippity10
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11/10/2009  5:48 PM
Marv wrote:i'm not convinced. after the first half of last night's game i would have been happy to see fired. no movement on anyone's part toward the hoop. outside brick after outside brick. no adjustments on 's part. imo a horrible offense for this team and horrible coaching.

dude has GOT to set plays where's more movement, cutting, screens, finding the guy underneath.

No adjustments. We changed defenses, we took out the starting PG, we got Hughes more involved. What adjustments were you lookign for?

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oohah
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11/10/2009  5:54 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/10/2009  5:54 PM
D'Antoni has an offensive philosophy more so than an offense. He doesn't adjust to his players strengths at all. "The system, the system!" Blah, blah, blah. One size does not fit all. Do what you need to do to get the players you have playing to their strengths.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bippity10
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11/10/2009  5:57 PM
oohah wrote:D'Antoni has an offensive philosophy more so than an offense. He doesn't adjust to his players strengths at all. "The system, the system!" Blah, blah, blah. One size does not fit all. Do what you need to do to get the players you have playing to their strengths.

oohah

What type of offense should we be running?

I just hope that people will like me
Marv
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11/10/2009  6:06 PM
Bippity10 wrote:
Marv wrote:i'm not convinced. after the first half of last night's game i would have been happy to see fired. no movement on anyone's part toward the hoop. outside brick after outside brick. no adjustments on 's part. imo a horrible offense for this team and horrible coaching.

dude has GOT to set plays where's more movement, cutting, screens, finding the guy underneath.

No adjustments. We changed defenses, we took out the starting PG, we got Hughes more involved. What adjustments were you lookign for?

i was looking for the offense to stop featuring 4 players standing around the perimeter waiting for 1 of them to chuck a 3-point brick and instead for players to cut, pass and drive. when you’re on a pace to score 30 in a half and you’re standing around bricking and down 17, i'd like to see a change toward actually attacking the rim.

oohah
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11/10/2009  6:07 PM
Bippity10 wrote:

What type of offense should we be running?

The kind of offense that does not rely on a mathematical formula of 3 pointers being 50% more points than a 2 pointer = therefore shoot way too many 3 pointers. The kind of offense that looks for good shots as opposed to the first look within 7 seconds. I'll take a good shot at 4 seconds left over a bad shot with 20 seconds left every time.

I am all for taking advantage of opportunities and uptempo offense but there is such a thing as too extreme. I'd like to see more isolations when a given player gets hot. I'd like to see 3 pointers shot when they are there, not from 30 feet. I want to see the guys who are good shooters shooting and the guys who are less capable from outside looking for better shots - and the offense should create those opportunities.

I'd like to see an offense where Chandler drives at his man when he has the physical advantage and tries to punish him. To the basket! I would rather not see Chandler shooting 3s and long 2s except when he is feeling it. I want to see outside shots taken off of penetration or using an inside out philosphy rather than the outside/in that D'Antoni espouses. I want to see Gallinari shoot 50% of his shots from 18 feet and in, maybe even a post up seeing as he is 6'11" tall.

And some more stuff too.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
tkf
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11/10/2009  7:53 PM
I don't think his offensive scheme is the problem as enyspree said, but the execution of the players.. the lack of ball movement, the bad shots, etc... my big problem with dantoni is his inability to corral Al harrington aka "free candy" and his odd substitution patterns with gallo..
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DrAlphaeus
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11/10/2009  7:53 PM
Question to you Xs-and-Os guys who understand the D'Antoni/7SOL philosophy:

If the offensive team is not in a fastbreak, I know they're supposed to be screening and moving. How are post-ups used? Which positions would favor -- guards? forwards?

Seems like the best center would be one who could kick the ball out to a free shooter... but unless he's closer to the free throw line and a threat with a hook-shot, sounds like a bunch of risky passes.

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martin
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11/10/2009  7:58 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:Question to you Xs-and-Os guys who understand the D'Antoni/7SOL philosophy:

If the offensive team is not in a fastbreak, I know they're supposed to be screening and moving. How are post-ups used? Which positions would favor -- guards? forwards?

Seems like the best center would be one who could kick the ball out to a free shooter... but unless he's closer to the free throw line and a threat with a hook-shot, sounds like a bunch of risky passes.

Cos posted a vid on MDA talking about how his offense is supposed to run. Check it out.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/videoposts.asp

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Panos
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11/10/2009  8:01 PM
Marv wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:
Marv wrote:i'm not convinced. after the first half of last night's game i would have been happy to see fired. no movement on anyone's part toward the hoop. outside brick after outside brick. no adjustments on 's part. imo a horrible offense for this team and horrible coaching.

dude has GOT to set plays where's more movement, cutting, screens, finding the guy underneath.

No adjustments. We changed defenses, we took out the starting PG, we got Hughes more involved. What adjustments were you lookign for?

i was looking for the offense to stop featuring 4 players standing around the perimeter waiting for 1 of them to chuck a 3-point brick and instead for players to cut, pass and drive. when you’re on a pace to score 30 in a half and you’re standing around bricking and down 17, i'd like to see a change toward actually attacking the rim.


Couldn't have said it better.

orangeblobman
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Nauru
11/10/2009  8:03 PM
Panos wrote:
Marv wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:
Marv wrote:i'm not convinced. after the first half of last night's game i would have been happy to see fired. no movement on anyone's part toward the hoop. outside brick after outside brick. no adjustments on 's part. imo a horrible offense for this team and horrible coaching.

dude has GOT to set plays where's more movement, cutting, screens, finding the guy underneath.

No adjustments. We changed defenses, we took out the starting PG, we got Hughes more involved. What adjustments were you lookign for?

i was looking for the offense to stop featuring 4 players standing around the perimeter waiting for 1 of them to chuck a 3-point brick and instead for players to cut, pass and drive. when you’re on a pace to score 30 in a half and you’re standing around bricking and down 17, i'd like to see a change toward actually attacking the rim.


Couldn't have said it better.



it's like you guys didn't read eny's original post?
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BasketballJones
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11/10/2009  8:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/10/2009  8:23 PM
orangeblobman wrote:
it's like you guys didn't read eny's original post?

It was too long. Besides, we all know what he said: "Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah."

https:// It's not so hard.
EnySpree
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11/10/2009  8:36 PM
BasketballJones wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
it's like you guys didn't read eny's original post?

It was too long. Besides, we all know what he said: "Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah."

Guys are frustrated on the board so if you say no its not and they already say yes it is there's nothing gonna change their opinion.

we should have a get together where we go over tape and stuff. I could really get into depth on why I hate Duhon so much, and really explain how spooked Wilson is.

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BasketballJones
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11/10/2009  8:38 PM
EnySpree wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
it's like you guys didn't read eny's original post?

It was too long. Besides, we all know what he said: "Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah."

Guys are frustrated on the board so if you say no its not and they already say yes it is there's nothing gonna change their opinion.

we should have a get together where we go over tape and stuff. I could really get into depth on why I hate Duhon so much, and really explain how spooked Wilson is.

You should do a YouTube thing.

https:// It's not so hard.
Marv
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11/10/2009  8:38 PM
BasketballJones wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
it's like you guys didn't read eny's original post?

It was too long. Besides, we all know what he said: "Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah."

well, that.

plus - it's the wrong offense to be running with this bunch. it's on to revise it to get these guys in better position and get a better flow. we were consistently - and i mean on almost every play - out of position to get anywhere near an offensive rebound and a second shot.

orangeblobman
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Nauru
11/10/2009  8:41 PM
Marv wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
it's like you guys didn't read eny's original post?

It was too long. Besides, we all know what he said: "Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah."

well, that.

plus - it's the wrong offense to be running with this bunch. it's on to revise it to get these guys in better position and get a better flow. we were consistently - and i mean on almost every play - out of position to get anywhere near an offensive rebound and a second shot.



i don't know if it's on dantoni to revise anything because this year and last have been about weeding out the unsuitable people and creating a strong foundation. the system is above the players, it's up to them to learn it or ship out-- because this is how the knicks are going to play for many more years, i think. no?
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Marv
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11/10/2009  8:41 PM
BasketballJones wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
it's like you guys didn't read eny's original post?

It was too long. Besides, we all know what he said: "Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah."

Guys are frustrated on the board so if you say no its not and they already say yes it is there's nothing gonna change their opinion.

we should have a get together where we go over tape and stuff. I could really get into depth on why I hate Duhon so much, and really explain how spooked Wilson is.

You should do a YouTube thing.

and then require and staff to watch it

BasketballJones
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11/10/2009  8:41 PM
Marv wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
it's like you guys didn't read eny's original post?

It was too long. Besides, we all know what he said: "Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah."

well, that.

plus - it's the wrong offense to be running with this bunch. it's on to revise it to get these guys in better position and get a better flow. we were consistently - and i mean on almost every play - out of position to get anywhere near an offensive rebound and a second shot.

So the real question this season, as you see it, is can adjust his offense to fit the players? Is that it? Because it doesn't seem like is gonna do that. I think wants the players to fit 's system. Of course, it is hard to get inside 's head, but that's how it looks.

https:// It's not so hard.
Marv
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11/10/2009  8:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/10/2009  8:45 PM
BasketballJones wrote:
Marv wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
it's like you guys didn't read eny's original post?

It was too long. Besides, we all know what he said: "Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah."

well, that.

plus - it's the wrong offense to be running with this bunch. it's on to revise it to get these guys in better position and get a better flow. we were consistently - and i mean on almost every play - out of position to get anywhere near an offensive rebound and a second shot.

So the real question this season, as you see it, is can adjust his offense to fit the players? Is that it? Because it doesn't seem like is gonna do that. I think wants the players to fit 's system. Of course, it is hard to get inside 's head, but that's how it looks.

it's just being .

D'antoni's Offense

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