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Whoever thinks JR Smith is some kind of cancer
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BRIGGS
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4/11/2008  2:29 PM
hasnt been watching pro basketball this year. This kid has grown up in a big way. I would take him over any guard in the draft except Rose. He has been a true impact player off the Nuggets bench--really a saviour player for them. What big time play last night. I still think the Nuggets are pressing way over the cap. I dont care about what an MLE will do in 2010--I would offer him the 5 years 25mm$ 5 mm $ isnt going to change our cap one way or the other. The way he is going JR Smith could be an NBA all star in 3 years easily. We really need a big guard and I think the MLE will get him.
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BigC
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4/11/2008  2:38 PM
I think he can play. He is the type of player that can drop 20 points sometimes with only getting 20 minutes. His problem is he has too much baggage. I think the most important thing right now is getting a good coach. If we don't have a good coach it will difficult for this team to get wins. You don't want a player like J.R. Smith on our team with a coach that has a Wimpy or Brainy Smurf personality.
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EnySpree
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4/11/2008  2:40 PM
He has ties to NY. He's kind of a legend @ Rucker and he's from Jersey if I'm not mistaken. If Isiah is not gonna be around he may choose to play for the Knicks.....

I like Crawford though. Craw is a ball handler and JR Smiths pretty much a pure shooting guard. If Rose is out of the question, how do guys feel about making Craw the point guard and signing JR Smith?
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Uptown
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4/11/2008  2:41 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

hasnt been watching pro basketball this year. This kid has grown up in a big way. I would take him over any guard in the draft except Rose. He has been a true impact player off the Nuggets bench--really a saviour player for them. What big time play last night. I still think the Nuggets are pressing way over the cap. I dont care about what an MLE will do in 2010--I would offer him the 5 years 25mm$ 5 mm $ isnt going to change our cap one way or the other. The way he is going JR Smith could be an NBA all star in 3 years easily. We really need a big guard and I think the MLE will get him.


BRIGGS, I agree with you about JR and he would be a great get for us at the 2. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending how you look at it, Walsh's new plan doesn't seem to include signing anyone with the MLE. Isiah might have made this move but I doubt Walsh would.
Uptown
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4/11/2008  2:43 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

He has ties to NY. He's kind of a legend @ Rucker and he's from Jersey if I'm not mistaken. If Isiah is not gonna be around he may choose to play for the Knicks.....

I like Crawford though. Craw is a ball handler and JR Smiths pretty much a pure shooting guard. If Rose is out of the question, how do guys feel about making Craw the point guard and signing JR Smith?

No way would I plug in Craw at the point. CRaw and JR would be fighting for shots in the backcourt. If we were to somehow land JR (and as I already stated, it aint happening) the first priority would be to move Craw to the 6th man role or off the team.
TrueBlue
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4/11/2008  2:45 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

hasnt been watching pro basketball this year. This kid has grown up in a big way. I would take him over any guard in the draft except Rose. He has been a true impact player off the Nuggets bench--really a saviour player for them. What big time play last night. I still think the Nuggets are pressing way over the cap. I dont care about what an MLE will do in 2010--I would offer him the 5 years 25mm$ 5 mm $ isnt going to change our cap one way or the other. The way he is going JR Smith could be an NBA all star in 3 years easily. We really need a big guard and I think the MLE will get him.


A Woman changing her mind>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Briggs changing his

It's interesting to note J.R. continues his good play and somehow just within a week you dropped his market value.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=26289

Is he worth $35mil or $25mil?

Wait don't decide yet Briggs let's watch him play well in the playoffs in a couple weeks and then drop his value down to $15mil

And then here you said he's worth the MLE which is slightly more than $5mil/yr. Matter of fact you have J.R. making less money than Jeffries who got 5yr $30mil plus kicker. Heck didn't Jerome get 5yrs/$28mil?
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=26233&page=1


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EnySpree
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4/11/2008  2:49 PM
Posted by BigC:

I think he can play. He is the type of player that can drop 20 points sometimes with only getting 20 minutes. His problem is he has too much baggage. I think the most important thing right now is getting a good coach. If we don't have a good coach it will difficult for this team to get wins. You don't want a player like J.R. Smith on our team with a coach that has a Wimpy or Brainy Smurf personality.



Yup coach is key. Hope one is announced before the Lottery......then we could focus on the team going forward......like the possibility of getting a kid like JR Smith.
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EnySpree
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4/11/2008  2:56 PM
Trueblue is the anti-christ.
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Allanfan20
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4/11/2008  3:02 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by BRIGGS:

hasnt been watching pro basketball this year. This kid has grown up in a big way. I would take him over any guard in the draft except Rose. He has been a true impact player off the Nuggets bench--really a saviour player for them. What big time play last night. I still think the Nuggets are pressing way over the cap. I dont care about what an MLE will do in 2010--I would offer him the 5 years 25mm$ 5 mm $ isnt going to change our cap one way or the other. The way he is going JR Smith could be an NBA all star in 3 years easily. We really need a big guard and I think the MLE will get him.


A Woman changing her mind>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Briggs changing his

It's interesting to note J.R. continues his good play and somehow just within a week you dropped his market value.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=26289

Is he worth $35mil or $25mil?

Wait don't decide yet Briggs let's watch him play well in the playoffs in a couple weeks and then drop his value down to $15mil

And then here you said he's worth the MLE which is slightly more than $5mil/yr. Matter of fact you have J.R. making less money than Jeffries who got 5yr $30mil plus kicker. Heck didn't Jerome get 5yrs/$28mil?
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=26233&page=1

Why do you care? Briggs has always liked JR Smith and the point is he wants to sign him for MLE money and that's been his arguement since the season started. Stop getting on people's arses for the dumbest things.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Siar617
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4/11/2008  3:03 PM
i think he'd be perfect next to the mayor and a real pg
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BRIGGS
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4/11/2008  3:04 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by BRIGGS:

hasnt been watching pro basketball this year. This kid has grown up in a big way. I would take him over any guard in the draft except Rose. He has been a true impact player off the Nuggets bench--really a saviour player for them. What big time play last night. I still think the Nuggets are pressing way over the cap. I dont care about what an MLE will do in 2010--I would offer him the 5 years 25mm$ 5 mm $ isnt going to change our cap one way or the other. The way he is going JR Smith could be an NBA all star in 3 years easily. We really need a big guard and I think the MLE will get him.


A Woman changing her mind>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Briggs changing his

It's interesting to note J.R. continues his good play and somehow just within a week you dropped his market value.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=26289

Is he worth $35mil or $25mil?

Wait don't decide yet Briggs let's watch him play well in the playoffs in a couple weeks and then drop his value down to $15mil

And then here you said he's worth the MLE which is slightly more than $5mil/yr. Matter of fact you have J.R. making less money than Jeffries who got 5yr $30mil plus kicker. Heck didn't Jerome get 5yrs/$28mil?
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=26233&page=1

What are you smoking? I want him for the MLE---whatever the MLE is slightly more slightly less--I don't care. It's a good investment--much much better than paying someone like Ben Gordon 10mm per. JR is better and will cost half.
RIP Crushalot😞
PresIke
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4/11/2008  3:08 PM
The game last night was sick. He played really well, and I agree.

Denver-GS is how b-ball should be played anyway
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
BRIGGS
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4/11/2008  3:14 PM
Posted by PresIke:

The game last night was sick. He played really well, and I agree.

Denver-GS is how b-ball should be played anyway

He can replace Q Rich at SG and move Crawford to 1 guard or use him as our primary 6th man. He has a lot of untapped talent despite being one of the best outside shots in the league and is only 22
RIP Crushalot😞
TrueBlue
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4/11/2008  3:18 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by BRIGGS:

hasnt been watching pro basketball this year. This kid has grown up in a big way. I would take him over any guard in the draft except Rose. He has been a true impact player off the Nuggets bench--really a saviour player for them. What big time play last night. I still think the Nuggets are pressing way over the cap. I dont care about what an MLE will do in 2010--I would offer him the 5 years 25mm$ 5 mm $ isnt going to change our cap one way or the other. The way he is going JR Smith could be an NBA all star in 3 years easily. We really need a big guard and I think the MLE will get him.


A Woman changing her mind>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Briggs changing his

It's interesting to note J.R. continues his good play and somehow just within a week you dropped his market value.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=26289

Is he worth $35mil or $25mil?

Wait don't decide yet Briggs let's watch him play well in the playoffs in a couple weeks and then drop his value down to $15mil

And then here you said he's worth the MLE which is slightly more than $5mil/yr. Matter of fact you have J.R. making less money than Jeffries who got 5yr $30mil plus kicker. Heck didn't Jerome get 5yrs/$28mil?
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=26233&page=1

What are you smoking? I want him for the MLE---whatever the MLE is slightly more slightly less--I don't care. It's a good investment--much much better than paying someone like Ben Gordon 10mm per. JR is better and will cost half.


I not knocking the idea of getting him although I feel Denver will retain him especially if they do well in the playoffs. It appears how things may shake down, if Denver doesn't do well in the playoffs they'll keep the team but Karl will be let go. If we do have a realistic shot at getting Smith, with the assumption it's worth more than the MLE because any team over the cap can offer him this,... what dollar amount would be too much Briggs in a S&T?
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MS
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4/11/2008  3:25 PM
How many games do we have to lose before people figure out that crawford brings nothing to the table outside of being media savy. We have won 34, 23, 34, and 23 games with crawford playing over 30 minutes.

JR smith is a disaster waiting to happend the kid is a bonehead that plays no defense and needs to constantly be firing. Exactly the player we don't need with this bunch. The Spurs are a perfect place for him because they have defenders and players with brains. The Knicks have zero veterans and no accountability.
BRIGGS
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4/11/2008  3:36 PM
Posted by MS:

How many games do we have to lose before people figure out that crawford brings nothing to the table outside of being media savy. We have won 34, 23, 34, and 23 games with crawford playing over 30 minutes.

JR smith is a disaster waiting to happend the kid is a bonehead that plays no defense and needs to constantly be firing. Exactly the player we don't need with this bunch. The Spurs are a perfect place for him because they have defenders and players with brains. The Knicks have zero veterans and no accountability.

I think our interior defense has been the big problem--that is why i want to dump Lee for a high pick and bring in those two big kids for the future. This team needs to be rebuilt and I don't think it's a wise move to put all of our eggs in the FA basket. I would love to keep Lee but there is no way that we are getting rid of Zach and Curry. We already have defensive players on the wings in Jeffereies and Balkman. JR Smith could easily be a very good defender--the guy is a very athletic 6-6 225--it's more about the coach. JR helps spread the floor giving guys like Zach Crawford Curry more room to operate because you have to respect his shot. With crawford and Smith on the floor at the same time--aslong as the guys shared the ball--that would be one heckuva tough match up for other teams.

Defense really is a team type effort--a team scheme. If you bring in a Tom Thibeadeu--our defensive schemes will just get better. We have a lot of small guards--it's an area of concern.
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EnySpree
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4/11/2008  3:46 PM
Posted by MS:

How many games do we have to lose before people figure out that crawford brings nothing to the table outside of being media savy. We have won 34, 23, 34, and 23 games with crawford playing over 30 minutes.

JR smith is a disaster waiting to happend the kid is a bonehead that plays no defense and needs to constantly be firing. Exactly the player we don't need with this bunch. The Spurs are a perfect place for him because they have defenders and players with brains. The Knicks have zero veterans and no accountability.

Craw is all alone. He's the only scorer. Nobody else can score aside from Zach. Curry is hit or miss and is more of a blackhole than Zach.

Craw chucks cuz he's the only one that can create his own shot. The Knicks don't run an offense. That's not Craws fault.

I refuse to bash Craw and make him any kind of scapegoat. Isiah is the problem. Craw keeps the Knicks in games all by himself.

What the Knicks need is a coach and a better managed team. With a better system, and players Craw wouldn't have to chuck 20 shots everynight.......besides....Craw has don't a great job all year of taking the ball to the rack or coming in and pulling up half way.....Craw is not a total spazz....if fact he is a damn good player. Knicks aren't losing because of him. Craw is the reason the Knicks won any games or can compete in any games.

Anyway, it all starts with losing Isiah and gaining a better coach.......Donnie and the coach have to figure out what stays and goes. Whatever they do at this point is fine with me.

JR Smith is the truth.
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PresIke
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4/11/2008  4:40 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by PresIke:

The game last night was sick. He played really well, and I agree.

Denver-GS is how b-ball should be played anyway

He can replace Q Rich at SG and move Crawford to 1 guard or use him as our primary 6th man. He has a lot of untapped talent despite being one of the best outside shots in the league and is only 22

Replacing Q with JR sounds great, except was Q not the starting 3 for us? Not sure where that leaves us defensively, and I'm just wondering if he and Craw go together well.

JR's numbers are interesting too, because he shoots 46% from the floor but still 40% from 3pt range with on 5 attempts a game. If we end up keeping Zach and/or Curry he is helpful because of his outside shooting prowess efficiency.

I can see JR starting and Craw off the bench, because JR's numbers indicate being a more efficient offensive player. In fairness, Craw takes a lot more shots, and the Knicks do not have the kind of offensive power that Denver has. However, what you can also see from JR is how he has still managed to score and help his team win with two mega-stars.

JR's offensive efficiency FG % (eFG%) is .575
Craw's is .408

71% of JR's shot attempts come from outside shooting and has a eFG of .569
Craw takes 81% of his shots from outside and has an eFG of .476

However, the point about their role on the team, and even how their respective team's function differently can be observed on the % of those shots that are assisted.

JR has 78% of his jump shots made assisted, while only 44% of Jamal's made jumpers are off of assists. Surely, some will suggest that this is Jamal's fault and why some rail on him, that he takes too many shots one-on-one or while being guarded, which also supports the idea that this is behind his low shooting efficiency and overall FG%.

One thing about Jamal is I always wondered what he would be like as a non-go-to type of player, like JR Smith. However, I wonder if his game style makes it hard to do that. I have yet to really see him consistently well coming off of screens or passing around the horn for a shot (someone can correct my possibly deceiving eyes). Often his shots come off of his own creation, which means he needs the ball in his hands to be effective.

This is why I like JR Smith for us in that he has already shown the ability to score not as the lead guy. Now, Jamal has never been on a team with the kind of wing scorers that JR has, except when we had Marbury. God, how I wish we had seen the trifecta healthy of Houston, Craw and Steph, which is one reason I don't blame Isiah as much for some moves if he thought Allan would be healthy.

Regardless, Jamal (who I like) has yet to show that ability consistently and likes to score on people, which he can do well, but seems to need to dominate the ball. For all of his talent, he is not on the same level as bigger stars who command the ball. Which is why I think he is a good guy to bring off the bench when you need scoring, like Starks was to us, with less defense.

Is JR vying for a bigger contract? Of course, and something to take note of. That isn't necessarily a big issue either.

We might lose out defensively, but he has the potential to be an efficient scorer that doesn't need 20 shots a game or the ball in his hands constantly to be effective. That is exactly the kind of wing player we are lacking right now.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Finestrg
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4/12/2008  2:41 PM
I like him too. Very young, big and athletic. 2 questions:

(1) you think he'll be looking for more than the mid level?

(2) you think having been part of that brawl at the Garden with Nate and Mardy (and I'm sure there were words with Isiah) will affect his choice to come here?

[Edited by - finestrg on 04-12-2008 2:42 PM]
McK1
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4/12/2008  3:45 PM
what if

Karl has found a way to maximize his talent as a spot up shooter off the bench. thrusting him into a role which requires more responsibilty like 35 mpg starting 2 guard may be to his detriment

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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