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Here it is folks, everyone vote: FRYE OR BYNUM?
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mattchless
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We are most likely coming out of the draft with one of them at #8, like it or not. Most likely Frye, but possibly Bynum if Frye goes before us. In the end, are you hoping for Bynum and his massive upside, or do you secretly like Frye and the immediate impact he can make. I personally prefer Bynum, only because his upside is just so big, but I won't cry if we get Frye, who people are underrating and also has an upside, though limited in comparison to Bynum, of course. Curious what the overall feeling is here:
Channing Frye
Andrew Bynum
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crzymdups
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6/26/2005  11:08 AM
...the grass is always greener. Bynum has never had a bad game for his entire college career...and no one has ever seen him play outside of a McDonald's game where he weighed 400lbs...of course he should be the pick...
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martin
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6/26/2005  11:24 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

...the grass is always greener. Bynum has never had a bad game for his entire college career...and no one has ever seen him play outside of a McDonald's game where he weighed 400lbs...of course he should be the pick...

...but the same sort of thing could have been said about Amare, right?
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crzymdups
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6/26/2005  11:29 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by crzymdups:

...the grass is always greener. Bynum has never had a bad game for his entire college career...and no one has ever seen him play outside of a McDonald's game where he weighed 400lbs...of course he should be the pick...

...but the same sort of thing could have been said about Amare, right?

Amare was a DOMINANT HS player. The only questions about him were personality/psychological makeup after his problems that forced him to move around and take five years to finish school. I don't think anyone doubted his body or his skill level - it was head. Taft is similar to Amare, but I don't think Taft has the drive Amare has. Bynum barely played in high school. He wasn't dominant at all. His chubby body limited him, he got tired and he got injured. Sure, he has potential, but he's nowhere near where Amare was when Amare declared. Amare was 20 years old and physically mature for one thing. Bynum may not even be done growing, and the way I have seen him move - he doesn't look athletic. He has good hands which will help. But I have not been impressed by anything I've seen (McDonald's game, ESPN outside the lines)...

Al Jefferson is also similar to Amare. Al Jefferson will be a beast someday very soon (if he isn't already, look at some of his Celtics games!) - Bynum is nowhere near the player Jefferson or Amare is. If you draft Bynum, you are banking that you can teach him how to use his size and how to do stuff like box out and play defense. Stuff he doesn't know. Sure, he's dominated Blatche in workouts, but Blatche has serious questions to go with his nice height. Blatche is another HS-er who doesn't seem to know how to play and certainly doesn't know how to use his size. This isn't like Dwight Howard, Amare or even Al Jefferson guys, this is a PROJECT. How many project centers workout in the NBA?

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/26/2005 11:35:47]
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Vmart
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6/26/2005  11:35 AM
He looked fluid in the Jordan Classic. He is only going to get better as he gets more experience.
Vmart
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6/26/2005  12:07 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by martin:
Posted by crzymdups:

...the grass is always greener. Bynum has never had a bad game for his entire college career...and no one has ever seen him play outside of a McDonald's game where he weighed 400lbs...of course he should be the pick...

...but the same sort of thing could have been said about Amare, right?

Amare was a DOMINANT HS player. The only questions about him were personality/psychological makeup after his problems that forced him to move around and take five years to finish school. I don't think anyone doubted his body or his skill level - it was head. Taft is similar to Amare, but I don't think Taft has the drive Amare has. Bynum barely played in high school. He wasn't dominant at all. His chubby body limited him, he got tired and he got injured. Sure, he has potential, but he's nowhere near where Amare was when Amare declared. Amare was 20 years old and physically mature for one thing. Bynum may not even be done growing, and the way I have seen him move - he doesn't look athletic. He has good hands which will help. But I have not been impressed by anything I've seen (McDonald's game, ESPN outside the lines)...

Al Jefferson is also similar to Amare. Al Jefferson will be a beast someday very soon (if he isn't already, look at some of his Celtics games!) - Bynum is nowhere near the player Jefferson or Amare is. If you draft Bynum, you are banking that you can teach him how to use his size and how to do stuff like box out and play defense. Stuff he doesn't know. Sure, he's dominated Blatche in workouts, but Blatche has serious questions to go with his nice height. Blatche is another HS-er who doesn't seem to know how to play and certainly doesn't know how to use his size. This isn't like Dwight Howard, Amare or even Al Jefferson guys, this is a PROJECT. How many project centers workout in the NBA?

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/26/2005 11:35:47]

I look at in terms of age. Bynum is 17 years old which is a very young senior. And he averaged 22 point and 5 blocks. Taking age maturity into consideration his number as an 18 year old would have gone up to around 25 points per game. I think if he was a 20 year old like Amare he would dominate HS ranks like no ones business. Please take Bynums age into consideration when discussing his stats. He is gonna be a nice player in the NBA by the time he is 20. I'm talking a decent 20-10 player he is gonna provide paint presence and just help the KNicks in the area where they have been lacking since Pat Ewing left an intimidating center that controls the paint.
Allanfan20
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6/26/2005  12:45 PM
What exactly is not dominating about 22 points, 16 rebounds and 5 blocks a game? You want him to average 40-30-10? The guy was injured most of the year, which lead to the weight issues, which he got rid of. Just look at all the different pics from recently, including his myspace pics. The weight issues are NO LONGER there. His frame is completely solid now and according to multiple sources, he is slowly starting to dominate the pre draft workouts.

Frye could be a good player, no doubt, but the look at the Knicks frontcourt NOW. What does the frontcourt desperately need. Somewhere between a star and a superstar, b/c we literally have NOTHING right NOW. Mike Sweetney is unproven, Malik is way undersized. Jerome is all heart all hustle but just isn't that skilled and isn't a shotblocker and Mo T just sucks. Channing Frye doesn't seem to be that star player type. Bynum wont be ready for the next 1 to 2 years, but say in 3 years maybe?, he has that physique and skillset and mentality to be a superstar and he's going way under the radar, just like how Amare did. And if this goes the Amare way, we'll pass up on him, and Granger and Graham and Green and watch them become stars while Frye is either just a good player or maybe wont even be able to crack the rotation.

So you really really want roast beef when you can have filet mignon?
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MaTT4281
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6/26/2005  12:50 PM
Last time the poll went 27:9 in favor of Bynum.
Looks like we're right on pace to hit it again.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=9867
crzymdups
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6/26/2005  12:54 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

What exactly is not dominating about 22 points, 16 rebounds and 5 blocks a game? You want him to average 40-30-10? The guy was injured most of the year, which lead to the weight issues, which he got rid of. Just look at all the different pics from recently, including his myspace pics. The weight issues are NO LONGER there. His frame is completely solid now and according to multiple sources, he is slowly starting to dominate the pre draft workouts.

Frye could be a good player, no doubt, but the look at the Knicks frontcourt NOW. What does the frontcourt desperately need. Somewhere between a star and a superstar, b/c we literally have NOTHING right NOW. Mike Sweetney is unproven, Malik is way undersized. Jerome is all heart all hustle but just isn't that skilled and isn't a shotblocker and Mo T just sucks. Channing Frye doesn't seem to be that star player type. Bynum wont be ready for the next 1 to 2 years, but say in 3 years maybe?, he has that physique and skillset and mentality to be a superstar and he's going way under the radar, just like how Amare did. And if this goes the Amare way, we'll pass up on him, and Granger and Graham and Green and watch them become stars while Frye is either just a good player or maybe wont even be able to crack the rotation.

So you really really want roast beef when you can have filet mignon?

Where are you guys getting his HS stats from? I saw 18ppg, 12rpg, 5bpg on Scout.com.

He also couldn't play the full year because he was so fat that his knee couldn't handle the stress. Sounds like a recurring injury waiting to happen to me. He has no muscle tone in any of his recent "skinny" photos. This kid is going to be a Diop of epic proportions. No GM worth their salt will use their highest pick of the draft on Bynum. Some team with two picks MIGHT take him with their second. So, yeah, Toronto, maybe Portland if they can pull off the trade with the Lakers to get 10 and 17.

And whoever said that he's young is right. There's a reason the league agreed to a 19yr old age limit.

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Pharzeone
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6/26/2005  1:13 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by crzymdups:

...the grass is always greener. Bynum has never had a bad game for his entire college career...and no one has ever seen him play outside of a McDonald's game where he weighed 400lbs...of course he should be the pick...

...but the same sort of thing could have been said about Amare, right?
Amare Stoudamire was showcased on REal Sports a year before he was drafted.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
BRIGGS
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6/26/2005  1:30 PM
I never compared Bynum to Amare Stoudemire or really anyone else. What I see is a rapidly developing athletic 7-1 monster with skills who is still growing, a true powerhouse 5 in a day where there are none. To depict Andrew off of a HS all star game when he was 35 pounds+ overweight and coming off injury, is a false interpretation, BELIEVE ME. Take what you saw at MCD and make it 20* better--where now he can show his athletiscm, his mobility, his burgeoning skills

He is a true 5 who will simply overtake and pass Frye in the nBA in terms of production quite quickly. He will show signs of dominance in YEAR 1 and then in the next two years will become a FRANCHISE C, as he matures into his body--probaly ends up a solid 7-2 1/2 285 pounds who will be a 20-10-3 C in this league and impact player.

How does anyone take HS stats and compare them to anything? who cares? there are so many intangibles that it makes no sense. Its what he is today, what he can do NOW and more importantly tomorrow.

I know what frye is, and I KNOW Bynum will be a much better player. He has everything on his side because he is intelligent a hard worker and he is TOUGH--even JC said he had a nastiness about him on the court. he is the opposite of soft when you add everything together, it comes up big.

But we will miss out and take Frye and stay in the conudrum and look back and say how the F did we let another one go.
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gunsnewing
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6/26/2005  1:34 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I never compared Bynum to Amare Stoudemire or really anyone else. What I see is a rapidly developing athletic 7-1 monster with skills who is still growing, a true powerhouse 5 in a day where there are none. To depict Andrew off of a HS all star game when he was 35 pounds+ overweight and coming off injury, is a false interpretation, BELIEVE ME. Take what you saw at MCD and make it 20* better--where now he can show his athletiscm, his mobility, his burgeoning skills

He is a true 5 who will simply overtake and pass Frye in the nBA in terms of production quite quickly. He will show signs of dominance in YEAR 1 and then in the next two years will become a FRANCHISE C, as he matures into his body--probaly ends up a solid 7-2 1/2 285 pounds who will be a 20-10-3 C in this league and impact player.

How does anyone take HS stats and compare them to anything? who cares? there are so many intangibles that it makes no sense. Its what he is today, what he can do NOW and more importantly tomorrow.

I know what frye is, and I KNOW Bynum will be a much better player. He has everything on his side because he is intelligent a hard worker and he is TOUGH--even JC said he had a nastiness about him on the court. he is the opposite of soft when you add everything together, it comes up big.

But we will miss out and take Frye and stay in the conudrum and look back and say how the F did we let another one go.

couldn't have said it better myself!
Pharzeone
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6/26/2005  1:50 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I never compared Bynum to Amare Stoudemire or really anyone else. What I see is a rapidly developing athletic 7-1 monster with skills who is still growing, a true powerhouse 5 in a day where there are none. To depict Andrew off of a HS all star game when he was 35 pounds+ overweight and coming off injury, is a false interpretation, BELIEVE ME. Take what you saw at MCD and make it 20* better--where now he can show his athletiscm, his mobility, his burgeoning skills

He is a true 5 who will simply overtake and pass Frye in the nBA in terms of production quite quickly. He will show signs of dominance in YEAR 1 and then in the next two years will become a FRANCHISE C, as he matures into his body--probaly ends up a solid 7-2 1/2 285 pounds who will be a 20-10-3 C in this league and impact player.

How does anyone take HS stats and compare them to anything? who cares? there are so many intangibles that it makes no sense. Its what he is today, what he can do NOW and more importantly tomorrow.

I know what frye is, and I KNOW Bynum will be a much better player. He has everything on his side because he is intelligent a hard worker and he is TOUGH--even JC said he had a nastiness about him on the court. he is the opposite of soft when you add everything together, it comes up big.

But we will miss out and take Frye and stay in the conudrum and look back and say how the F did we let another one go.
As far as I seen or read, only you, Nash/Kupcake, and Isiah actually thinks the kid is worth a lottery pick. YOu gave a bunch of scenarios that have Bynum getting over 20ppg 10rpg. I agree you ar not comparing him to Amare, you are actually saying he will be better. You said he isn't a project center, it won't take him 3 years to develop. Personally I don't know what to make out of it. Frye seemed to have impressed more than just Isiah. He began as a very late 1st round pick, move up the board, and seem to have impress scouts. If Isiah gave him a promise then, that only shows his insight. Somehow you know, that Isiah never watched Bynum workout or anything meanwhile, many sources now have Isiah saying he will take Bynum if Frye or Green or gone. Bynum cancels a workout that probably had him going against Frye even more curious. I am confuse, are you upset with Isiah? or Bynum? I mean do you want a player who has shut down workouts with your team because we can kill Nash too, if he doesn't pick Green because those were his reasons.
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diderotn
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6/26/2005  1:57 PM
which ever team that picks Taft ( I hope it's N.Y.) WILL be rewarded heavily. Taft is the Amare of this draft....Mark my words....
The true Knickabocker..........
Marv
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6/26/2005  2:11 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I never compared Bynum to Amare Stoudemire or really anyone else. What I see is a rapidly developing athletic 7-1 monster with skills who is still growing, a true powerhouse 5 in a day where there are none. To depict Andrew off of a HS all star game when he was 35 pounds+ overweight and coming off injury, is a false interpretation, BELIEVE ME. Take what you saw at MCD and make it 20* better--where now he can show his athletiscm, his mobility, his burgeoning skills

He is a true 5 who will simply overtake and pass Frye in the nBA in terms of production quite quickly. He will show signs of dominance in YEAR 1 and then in the next two years will become a FRANCHISE C, as he matures into his body--probaly ends up a solid 7-2 1/2 285 pounds who will be a 20-10-3 C in this league and impact player.

How does anyone take HS stats and compare them to anything? who cares? there are so many intangibles that it makes no sense. Its what he is today, what he can do NOW and more importantly tomorrow.

I know what frye is, and I KNOW Bynum will be a much better player. He has everything on his side because he is intelligent a hard worker and he is TOUGH--even JC said he had a nastiness about him on the court. he is the opposite of soft when you add everything together, it comes up big.

But we will miss out and take Frye and stay in the conudrum and look back and say how the F did we let another one go.

Briggs - maybe. and maybe not.

What continues to amuse me (when it doesn't enrage me ) is your degree of certainty. A year ago every single "smart" basketball fan was certain of what a stupid azz move it was for Phoenix to give Steve Nash all that money.

Right?

I still say the smartest thing for the Knicks to do is come away with at least 2 players from this draft that can log heavy minutes at center, and possibly at PF too. AND pick up another one through trade/FA signing. I'd be thrilled to see what a core of Marbury, Crawford, RIchardson, Ariza and Sweetney could do with 3 big guys to play with (and maybe Butler). Whether Bynum or Frye is one of them is not a matter of certainty for me, and I don't believe in anyone claiming that such a certainty exists.
crzymdups
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6/26/2005  2:26 PM
Exactly, Marv, that's all I'm saying: Bynum is NOT a sure thing. He's a fairly large gamble. Briggs, you've based your opinion on several well-outlined arguments and I can respect, I just happen to feel from what I've seen that he's closer to Diop or J. James than a dominant center. I don't know how you can judge a person's heart and drive from not having seen them play. Remember, Charlie Villanueva was the second-ranked recruit heading into Uconn, even flirted with the draft but ended up never developing at Uconn to the point where Calhoun told him to aim for the draft mainly because he was sick of him. I think Calhoun is a very good judge of talent, but let's not kid ourselves either, he's looking out for him and his program as well as these kids future.
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joec32033
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6/27/2005  5:44 AM
Posted by diderotn:

which ever team that picks Taft ( I hope it's N.Y.) WILL be rewarded heavily. Taft is the Amare of this draft....Mark my words....

Can You imagine a Knicks team of

Steph-Q-Ariza-Taft-Bynum with
Crawford, Sweetney, Steven Graham off the Bench?!?
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diderotn
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6/27/2005  6:50 AM
It can happen...Isiah will do a trade by draft night....I am thinking that Either Memphis or Minnesota will be the partner...

Posted by joec32033:
Posted by diderotn:

which ever team that picks Taft ( I hope it's N.Y.) WILL be rewarded heavily. Taft is the Amare of this draft....Mark my words....

Can You imagine a Knicks team of

Steph-Q-Ariza-Taft-Bynum with
Crawford, Sweetney, Steven Graham off the Bench?!?
The true Knickabocker..........
mattchless
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6/28/2005  12:35 PM
with talk of potential knee issues, i wonder what the vote tallies would be now
KNICKSdom
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6/28/2005  1:21 PM
Bynum is on top of my draft list for the #8 pick. I like the chances of him dropping to Knicks at 8.

1) Bynum
2) Green
3) Frye
4) Granger
5) Graham

For the 30th pick I have:

1)Taft
2)Blatche
3)Turiaf
4)Monta Ellis
5)Ilic from Partizan Belgrade

This draft is just too damn deep not to make a good pick. We will go big one way or the other. Bynum is my big prize. I believe in this kid.
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Knicksfan
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6/28/2005  2:28 PM
So since the last poll about the same topic, Frye has 2 more fans. Bynum has lost some.
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Here it is folks, everyone vote: FRYE OR BYNUM?
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