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Pau vs. each #8 candidate
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bigpimpin
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6/21/2005  5:00 PM
i would rather have pau gasol than anyone on that list except Gerald Green.

Not that Pau or Green are going to lead us to a championship anytime soon but--Marbury needs a 20 ppg scorer--which Gasol would be

I just want Green to play for the Knicks
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nyk4ever
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6/21/2005  5:08 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

i would rather have pau gasol than anyone on that list except Gerald Green.

Not that Pau or Green are going to lead us to a championship anytime soon but--Marbury needs a 20 ppg scorer--which Gasol would be

I just want Green to play for the Knicks

Fair enough Pimpin. I feel the same way about Granger. It'd be nice if the Knicks could somehow wind up with Pau and one of those guys but thats way beyond wishful thinking.
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Solace
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6/21/2005  5:39 PM
I think we'd have to overpay to get Pau, so I'm not interested.

But, for arguments sake, I'd love to get Pau for the #8 and say TT. I just don't think he comes cheap enough to make it worth it.... would take more than that, and I'm not willing to give more than that.
...
Killa4luv
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6/21/2005  5:59 PM
Lots of good comments here.

Marbs and Pau would work out well, and though neither are superstars, all we need are solid role players to surround tham with. Craw, Ariza, and a decent center would be a good compliment to a core of Steph and Pau.

Steph 21, 8
Pau 20 10, 1.5bl
Craw 18, 6a 2st
Ariza 10, 4r 4a
KT 12, 10

add a center and we'll be GREAT!!!!!!!
DarkKnicks
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6/21/2005  6:12 PM
Come on! Pau in the Knicks -> Knicks are 4th in the East.
simrud
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6/21/2005  9:07 PM
And what exactly is so great in being 4th in the Eeast?

You can take a guy like Green, who can be a top 5 player in a few years, and you'd rather be top 4 in the East and get bounced w/out any hope in the 2nd round?
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
gunsnewing
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6/21/2005  9:12 PM
Posted by simrud:

And what exactly is so great in being 4th in the Eeast?

You can take a guy like Green, who can be a top 5 player in a few years, and you'd rather be top 4 in the East and get bounced w/out any hope in the 2nd round?

I would take Pau over some guys but not these:
green
granger
graham

possibly:
Webster
Wright
NineMike2Whiskey
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6/21/2005  9:37 PM
Whats not to like about Pau besides his contract (a tad overpaid),

He's fearless and not soft unlike most euros (little known fact: he was actually 2nd in dunks in his rookie season behind Shaq)

He's got as a complete back to the basket game as any in the game, just remember his first half performance against team USA during the Olympics guarded by Amare, TD and KG. He practically schooled Amare when he was matched up against him.

He's got solid work ethics, plays within the system, doesnt complain about his playing time or touches though he has that irritating tendency of complaining about everything to the refs.

I think he could easily avg 20 10 with increased touches and playing time.
franco12
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6/21/2005  10:13 PM
is pau & marbs better than Billups & either Wallace?

Is Pau & Marbs better than Parker & Duncan?

Pau is a good player.

But give me a wing that has a chance, albeit small, to become an all star.

If Pau is a nice role player, no thanks.
DarkKnicks
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6/22/2005  4:55 AM
Nice role player??? Give Gasol 38 minutes per game and he will have 22-10-2 every night. Hell, he is as good as Jarmeine O'Neal in my opinion. And by the way, he IS good in the final moments and has NEVER been afraid of taking the last shot.
And Simrud: no, it's not great to be 4th in the East, but I don't really know if you think that with Bynum, Frye or whoever we draft is going to be better than that.
Gasol is young, he plays excellently in the paint, all he needs is to improve his defense a little bit and he will be an all-star.

[Edited by - DarkKnicks on 06/22/2005 04:56:53]
diderotn
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6/22/2005  6:31 AM
This is a very bad argument...who in their right mind wouldn't do that trade???? Pau is an allstar, and the projects that we may pick at 8 may just turn out to be nothing special. Just think about using cash Vs credit card...Cash is what you have in your bank account today (Pau), credit is debt on future earnings (draft pick)...
The true Knickabocker..........
Killa4luv
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6/22/2005  9:53 AM
Posted by diderotn:

This is a very bad argument...who in their right mind wouldn't do that trade???? Pau is an allstar, and the projects that we may pick at 8 may just turn out to be nothing special. Just think about using cash Vs credit card...Cash is what you have in your bank account today (Pau), credit is debt on future earnings (draft pick)...
Guys are really irrational sometimes, what can you do?

Any player you want, they say no he has flaws we need perfect players and yadda yadda ya. Every player has flaws, its about which ones we can live with and which ones we cant. And the fact of the matter is, we can live with a 7 foot versatil player who is 20 and 10. We can't live with a bust, or undersized player at any position.

[Edited by - killa4luv on 06/22/2005 09:54:35]
diderotn
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6/22/2005  10:06 AM
Some N.Y. fans are expecting way too much....That is why this organization has made as many mistakes since Ewing....

Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by diderotn:

This is a very bad argument...who in their right mind wouldn't do that trade???? Pau is an allstar, and the projects that we may pick at 8 may just turn out to be nothing special. Just think about using cash Vs credit card...Cash is what you have in your bank account today (Pau), credit is debt on future earnings (draft pick)...
Guys are really irrational sometimes, what can you do?

Any player you want, they say no he has flaws we need perfect players and yadda yadda ya. Every player has flaws, its about which ones we can live with and which ones we cant. And the fact of the matter is, we can live with a 7 foot versatil player who is 20 and 10. We can't live with a bust, or undersized player at any position.

[Edited by - killa4luv on 06/22/2005 09:54:35]
The true Knickabocker..........
franco12
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6/22/2005  10:47 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by diderotn:

This is a very bad argument...who in their right mind wouldn't do that trade???? Pau is an allstar, and the projects that we may pick at 8 may just turn out to be nothing special. Just think about using cash Vs credit card...Cash is what you have in your bank account today (Pau), credit is debt on future earnings (draft pick)...
Guys are really irrational sometimes, what can you do?

Any player you want, they say no he has flaws we need perfect players and yadda yadda ya. Every player has flaws, its about which ones we can live with and which ones we cant. And the fact of the matter is, we can live with a 7 foot versatil player who is 20 and 10. We can't live with a bust, or undersized player at any position.

[Edited by - killa4luv on 06/22/2005 09:54:35]

the problems I have with trading 8 for pau are:

1. Money- you can talk all you want about its not your money, etc. The fact is that all these moves in adding big contracts is it limits your ability to make moves- trading players, signing free agents, etc. And, is Pau worth is contract? I don't think so.

2. Pau is soft. I read the link here I think that was posted where he said he needed to get tougher inside and that Memphis needed some more toughness inside. Those were the quotes of a soft player.

3. Whoever we pick at 8 might have a chance of becoming the next wade/manu/carmelo. Lets say Bynum has a 10% chance of one day becoming a top tier all star center. I'd prefer those odds.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have him on our team- its just at what cost.

They want to do a salary dump in exchange for Penny & perhaps Ariza for their 1st round pick, and perhaps our 30? Sure.

But we need an all star on this team.

Adding Pau to this roster doesn't get us a team that can match up with Detroit, San Antonio. Pick 8 doesn't alone, but he might get us closer than Pau.

And he might be a bust, and that's the gamble that we need to take.

Think of our roster situation like this- its fourth and long, down 6 with 30 seconds to play. Do you kick the field goal or do you go for it? I say go for it.
Bonn1997
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6/22/2005  11:26 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by diderotn:

This is a very bad argument...who in their right mind wouldn't do that trade???? Pau is an allstar, and the projects that we may pick at 8 may just turn out to be nothing special. Just think about using cash Vs credit card...Cash is what you have in your bank account today (Pau), credit is debt on future earnings (draft pick)...
Guys are really irrational sometimes, what can you do?

Any player you want, they say no he has flaws we need perfect players and yadda yadda ya. Every player has flaws, its about which ones we can live with and which ones we cant. And the fact of the matter is, we can live with a 7 foot versatil player who is 20 and 10. We can't live with a bust, or undersized player at any position.

[Edited by - killa4luv on 06/22/2005 09:54:35]

the problems I have with trading 8 for pau are:

1. Money- you can talk all you want about its not your money, etc. The fact is that all these moves in adding big contracts is it limits your ability to make moves- trading players, signing free agents, etc. And, is Pau worth is contract? I don't think so.

2. Pau is soft. I read the link here I think that was posted where he said he needed to get tougher inside and that Memphis needed some more toughness inside. Those were the quotes of a soft player.

3. Whoever we pick at 8 might have a chance of becoming the next wade/manu/carmelo. Lets say Bynum has a 10% chance of one day becoming a top tier all star center. I'd prefer those odds.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have him on our team- its just at what cost.

They want to do a salary dump in exchange for Penny & perhaps Ariza for their 1st round pick, and perhaps our 30? Sure.

But we need an all star on this team.

Adding Pau to this roster doesn't get us a team that can match up with Detroit, San Antonio. Pick 8 doesn't alone, but he might get us closer than Pau.

And he might be a bust, and that's the gamble that we need to take.

Think of our roster situation like this- its fourth and long, down 6 with 30 seconds to play. Do you kick the field goal or do you go for it? I say go for it.
I don't understand the 30 seconds left part of your analogy, and I think it's a critical difference in how we view the teams. I'm in no rush. You guys keep comparing a Marbury/Pau combo to a Duncan/Ginobili or Shaq/Wade combo and are saying we're still not as good as those teams and thus shouldn't make the trade. In contrast, I'm not looking to make any one trade that makes us as good as those teams next year. That's just unrealistic. This trade would certainly set us in the right direction toward becoming as good as those teams. This would be the 2nd "Marbury type deal" that Isiah would pull off in about 20 months. You'd just have to give it another year or two to accumulate more assets and pull off another Marbury type deal to get a third star (while at the same time working on improving your young players, using the MLE intelligently, etc.)
franco12
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6/22/2005  11:44 AM
Trading for Pau makes us better next year, but keeps us from ever getting better.

Take whoever at the 8 and lets get right back to the lottery next year.

Take Pau and maybe we get into the playoffs and we get a pick around what, 16-17? don't we then owe that to the Suns?

We need to stay, I think, in the lottery for 3 years and get really good players that take a while to develop and become good.

As for my 30 sec part of my analogy- taking Pau is like kicking the FG, the sure thing, but then hoping that we can follow up with an onside recovery- the next move after Pau.
Killa4luv
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6/22/2005  2:28 PM
Posted by franco12:

Trading for Pau makes us better next year, but keeps us from ever getting better.

Take whoever at the 8 and lets get right back to the lottery next year.

Take Pau and maybe we get into the playoffs and we get a pick around what, 16-17? don't we then owe that to the Suns?

We need to stay, I think, in the lottery for 3 years and get really good players that take a while to develop and become good.

As for my 30 sec part of my analogy- taking Pau is like kicking the FG, the sure thing, but then hoping that we can follow up with an onside recovery- the next move after Pau.
the problem with your analogy is this:
Is who is at #8 going to give us 20 and 10 at the 4 or 5 or something comparable from a wing player? If we can get a player who can do it, using the pick and an expiring contract you have to do it. We still have a #30 and a 54 and we could buy a mid round pick I'm sure, if we wanted. If you can get it done, than you just get it done, this is a no brainer. None of those #8 players are projected to be that good unless someone slips which is a possibility.
technomaster
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6/22/2005  3:01 PM
Whoa... this is one nutty thread.

Take a step back for a moment. We're talking about a legit 7-footer here with shotblocking skills... and the single most dominant player in the Olympics. :) He's not a great defender (but his shot blocking skill is what we're looking for), but pair him up with any of our journeyman bruisers and we'd have a pretty good frontcourt combination.

Maybe I'm a little misguided and confused, but does even *Bogut* (let alone Andrew Bynum!) project to becoming a better player than Gasol?

No doubt I'd trade the #8 pick and junk for him.

Young player development is a funny thing. You might give 'em 4 years to develop, but in most cases you find out in the first year or two if the pick is going to be a player in the NBA. With many players, no amount of nurturing is going to give them the talent or mindset to make it if it's not there to begin with.
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Killa4luv
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6/22/2005  3:05 PM
Posted by technomaster:

Whoa... this is one nutty thread.

Take a step back for a moment. We're talking about a legit 7-footer here with shotblocking skills... and the single most dominant player in the Olympics. :) He's not a great defender (but his shot blocking skill is what we're looking for), but pair him up with any of our journeyman bruisers and we'd have a pretty good frontcourt combination.

Maybe I'm a little misguided and confused, but does even *Bogut* (let alone Andrew Bynum!) project to becoming a better player than Gasol?

No doubt I'd trade the #8 pick and junk for him.

Young player development is a funny thing. You might give 'em 4 years to develop, but in most cases you find out in the first year or two if the pick is going to be a player in the NBA. With many players, no amount of nurturing is going to give them the talent or mindset to make it if it's not there to begin with.
You do realize that to many you have comitted blasphemy, and I like it!!!!!
DarkKnicks
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6/22/2005  3:17 PM
franco12, you talk as if Gasol were like Tim Thomas. Man, he has proved year after year that he is a very solid player. Also, he would be better in the East, and specially in the Knicks (a team with an excellent PG).
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