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Question for BRIGGS
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SkyWalker
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6/20/2005  3:47 PM
Mr. Briggs,
I get the feeling you really like Bynum. I have no problem with that. I also get excited listening to you describe him. I don't know much about him other than reading your posts. I want to try to understand this player's potential and where he is at this point in time. For instance how much different is his potential from when Olowokandi went #1 to the Clippers? Is it more? Would you say he would have been the #1 pick that year instead? Also, honestly, do you feel a little more attached to this kid because you are a Uconn fan and you fell in love with him more than you would have had he been planning on attending Syracuse instead? I know you will probably respond by telling me no and the kid is legit and I believe you. But, I think it is only right to give a fair chance with Frye. I'm not saying we should draft him or that we will draft him but if IT decides to take him, you should show a little more confidence. I hear you bash Frye about his heart and how he didn't have so many double digit rebounding games at Arizona. Does that mean he can't become a stronger rebounder? Maybe we can compare Bynum and Frye by their Highschool stats. Would Bynum put up significantly better numbers at Uconn than Frye at Arizona? I'm not positive but wasn't Arizona a more perimeter oriented team. The focus is with their guards and guys like Fry might not have been featured enough in the offense and it might have had an effect on the rest of his game. I don't know. I understand that you want Bynum over Frye. I don't agree or disagree. But who is to say that Frye doesn't have a very high ceiling? Just because he is 4 yrs older than Bynum? Every player develops differently. I'll give you the best example - DWAYNE WADE. The guy spent 4 years at Marquette and everyone knew he was solid but no one thought he would become this good. Seriously. I remember being shocked when Miami picked Wade. I never thought he would go that high. I thought he was solid but would never become the player he has become only after 2 years! The guy spent 4 years in college. What were his stats there? Were they completely dominating? If Wade can avg close to 30 points per game, why can't a guy like Frye average double digit rebounds and 2-3 blocks per game??
All I am asking is that you be fair.
Kenny SkyWalker
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fishmike
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6/20/2005  4:14 PM
fair questions.... funny you mentioned Wade. Briggs gushed about him 2 years ago
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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6/20/2005  4:23 PM


Two different players.

I think Bynum has attributes that are rare.

forget HS stats, they dont mean anything.

I like Frye, Ive already mentioned why i do and dont like him.


Id prefer to go for it here. There are times in life when you take a reasonable calculated gamble.

Frye has had to do go through whatever training AFTER his 4 years to start think about putting on some weight. Bynum at 17, took special care at a young age to come back from injury and get into really good shape.

Bynum is 7-1 1/8 282 in bare feet, still growing with strong SOLID hands, meaning he catches everything--very important for a C long wingspan just a huge specimen, but he comes with athletsicm, skills, quick feet, intelligence, work ethic, a nastiness about his game, he lIKES contact. He WANTS to be at the basket and protecting the D basket. Hes mobile, agile for a huge person.

Channing Frye woke up with 8 games to go in his senior season, one that he started out HORRIBLY and went on a tear, you saw all the good aspects of channing--like sugar ray said, the judges remember the last 10 secs, so they might overlook the body of work.

why is channing at the end of huis senior year realizing he has to put on weight--and what evidence do we have that he will bring it every game? He was a very off and on player in high tempo in a rather poor big mans league. Yes then he went of on 6-6 230 pd roger powell of illinois.

To me, one represents much more upside, ANd what has been downplayed a little, is, he can play NOW hes ready to go now to give minutes now.

If isiah makes the Bynum pic, no one will hammer him, its a free pick. Not only does it give him extra time, but the payoff from Bynum exploding is huge for isiah.

Channing frye is going to have a large negative reaction. Lets face it,mwe all know that. Ny wants a REAL C, not a pseudo laid back lethargic man who decided to pick it up at the end of his college career. Talk about Bynum being a low 1, Channing Frye was projected as a high2 low 1 all season. He has NEVER been mentioned with lottery pick until the end here.

I like Channing, but I like the upside of Bynum more. One is a real powerhouse C, one is a blown up cruiserweight who has gotten pushed around plaenty of times.

The draft is not an exact science, thats why in this case, I go big. When the poepl in NY see that monster, hope and tickets and marketing,advertising will pick up, there will be a buzz--channing frye represents weakness, smallish of heart and determination, he represents and undersized blown up at the last minute 5.

Jim Calhoun said he was going to be a high lottery pick. i consider JC to be a better talent evaluator than ANYONE in the country, pro or CBB. he finds these guys when they are nothing, he spots ray allen out of SC-he spots josh boone turns a frail rip into a champion. yes its to bad that andrew didnt have 1 year of school, but then you could be looking at pick 1-2

I think hes to big athletic and skilled to be a bust. there are clear clear differences if anyone wants to bring up Diop. But his upside is big time franchise C. hes intimidating even at 17. is frye?
RIP Crushalot😞
purple012870
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6/20/2005  4:48 PM
So...you have a guy who could be as good as Jerome James or Michael Olawakandi in 3 or 4 years. An absolute reach at the # 8 spot. You just cannot take a guy who hasn't dominated anything that high. Hasn't dominated HS. I saw Alonzo Mourning in HS. Killed people. This guy had 6, 8, 10 inch advantages (plus weight) on high school players....didn't even everage 20. How does that "not mean anything". Okay, you say he wasn't healthy. How about his Junior year? How about AAU? We know nothing about this guy with regard to the game of basketball. We do know his height, weight & SAT score. That's not enough for # 8.

Then you have a right handed Raef LaFrenz (Channing Frye). No thank you.

Take Granger or Graham. Change the dynamic of this team. Get some toughness with a young & competitive athlete who has performed at high levels.

Then take Ewing or Head at 30. Defense, competitiveness. A little fire back in blue & orange.

Then acquire on of the average but fairly young big men that are available---all still with no less upside of Bynum/Frye-- (Magliore, Curry, Hunter, Dalembert etc.).
BRIGGS
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6/20/2005  4:51 PM
[quote]
Posted by purple012870:

So...you have a guy who could be as good as Jerome James or Michael Olawakandi in 3 or 4 years. An absolute reach at the # 8 spot. You just cannot take a guy who hasn't dominated anything that high. Hasn't dominated HS. I saw Alonzo Mourning in HS. Killed people. This guy had 6, 8, 10 inch advantages (plus weight) on high school players....didn't even everage 20. How does that "not mean anything". Okay, you say he wasn't healthy. How about his Junior year? How about AAU? We know nothing about this guy with regard to the game of basketball. We do know his height, weight & SAT score. That's not enough for # 8.


Bynum's upside is 20-24 points 11-13 rebs 3-3.5 b shooting 55%
RIP Crushalot😞
SkyWalker
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6/20/2005  4:57 PM
Thanks for responding. You make some good points. If this is all true about this kid though, how come he isn't projected higher? Furthermore, it should be clear cut that IT will draft this kid. Everyone knows the Knicks are desparate for a Center. Channing Frye could get away with playing the 5 but he is really a 4. But then again he is an upgrade over KT at center. However, If Bynum truly has the talent and potential then I doubt IT will let him pass. People argue that he wants the safe pick in NY but IT is also in more danger of having people complain how he let Bynum slip out of his hands when the Knicks desparately need a center. NY would never forgive him. He has taken risks before by drafting Mcgrady. IT did all that investigating on Frye before he even knew whether Bynum would definitely be in the draft. I think IT is waiting to see where this kid's stock is right up until the draft. The latest has the lakers promising him at #10 so that may entice IT to seriously consider Bynum at #8. If I was Bynum I would prefer to go #10 to Lakers than #8 to the Knicks. I bet Phil Jackson convinced him to shut it down, knowing that if IT sees him workout there is too much of a chance the Knicks will pick him before. Maybe the Lakers can offer a nice package to swap picks with the Knicks?
Kenny SkyWalker
TMS
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6/20/2005  4:58 PM
briggs, what are your thoughts on kosta perovic? i remember you were really high on him the past couple years...1 of the articles today have him on the bubble on whether or not to enter the draft this year.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
crzymdups
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6/20/2005  5:00 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:


Bynum's upside is 20-24 points 11-13 rebs 3-3.5 b shooting 55%

downside?

¿ △ ?
purple012870
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6/20/2005  5:00 PM
Briggs....hey I appreciate your conviction. If you're right, you'll be a UK legend. But going from 17/13 in friggin' HS to numbers like Ewing's best years is too much of a wild thought for me.
Pharzeone
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6/20/2005  5:01 PM
Posted by purple012870:

So...you have a guy who could be as good as Jerome James or Michael Olawakandi in 3 or 4 years. An absolute reach at the # 8 spot. You just cannot take a guy who hasn't dominated anything that high. Hasn't dominated HS. I saw Alonzo Mourning in HS. Killed people. This guy had 6, 8, 10 inch advantages (plus weight) on high school players....didn't even everage 20. How does that "not mean anything". Okay, you say he wasn't healthy. How about his Junior year? How about AAU? We know nothing about this guy with regard to the game of basketball. We do know his height, weight & SAT score. That's not enough for # 8.

Then you have a right handed Raef LaFrenz (Channing Frye). No thank you.

Take Granger or Graham. Change the dynamic of this team. Get some toughness with a young & competitive athlete who has performed at high levels.

Then take Ewing or Head at 30. Defense, competitiveness. A little fire back in blue & orange.

Then acquire on of the average but fairly young big men that are available---all still with no less upside of Bynum/Frye-- (Magliore, Curry, Hunter, Dalembert etc.).
I have to take issue with you saying that Bynum has more of an upside. Nobody knows what this kid is. You want to take HS stats out of the equation? That doesn't even make sense. I mean we could say that about any 7 foot plus player or non-player. Just because you are 7 foot plus doesn't mean you are going to dominate in the NBA. There are plenty of big stiff busts. And it is strange that you will give Isiah a pass if he takes Bynum because it is a "free pick" but if he takes Frye at 8 it is somehow not a "free pick." I can understand your passion about a guy you really like but it is just your logic about the matter is on the border of irrational. Plus add in the factor that the kid doesn't even want to work out for us anymore. My goodness, now you want Isiah to draft someone based on one public workout and hearsay from his Bynum's brother while Frye has workout for the Knicks on a couple of occasions. I mean just look at it from that point. It is like John Nash said about Green, we are giving you a solid binding contract and you don't want to workout for us.
"well come in for an interview." "No thanks, look just hire me."
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Nalod
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6/20/2005  5:02 PM
"DIOP", the sound one makes when they are a restricted free agent, and you don't get no love.

Example: After 3 years of not living up to the draft day hype 3 years ago, he went "DIOP".
BRIGGS
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6/20/2005  5:05 PM
Posted by TMS:

briggs, what are your thoughts on kosta perovic? i remember you were really high on him the past couple years...1 of the articles today have him on the bubble on whether or not to enter the draft this year.

he'll be a first round pick next year.
RIP Crushalot😞
purple012870
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6/20/2005  5:52 PM
I keep seing posts where various things unfold and we are starting Bynum or Butler at center with the other as a primary back-up. Might be the worst center tandem of all time. Two guys with no college experience, no international experience, a combined 9 minutes of NBA experience & neither is 20 yet. Sushi doesn't come that raw!!!
Bonn1997
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6/20/2005  5:58 PM
Posted by purple012870:

I keep seing posts where various things unfold and we are starting Bynum or Butler at center with the other as a primary back-up. Might be the worst center tandem of all time. Two guys with no college experience, no international experience, a combined 9 minutes of NBA experience & neither is 20 yet. Sushi doesn't come that raw!!!
I'd have no problem with 2 young guys with large upside playing center but you'd have to either keep Kurt or get an adeqate veteran C. (Definitely doesn't have to be someone special; just a half-decent role player.)
purple012870
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6/20/2005  6:08 PM
Hunter would be fine.
diderotn
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6/20/2005  6:27 PM
A front court of Hunter, Frye, and another Center would be fine to me....anything is better than what we had last season...
The true Knickabocker..........
diderotn
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6/20/2005  6:36 PM
one thing that Isiah has to watchout for, the Lakers are looking into dealing with the Blazers for their number 3 pick...as you all know, they have worked Bynum and they may view this kid as baby Shaq....Maybe Isiah needs to reconsider and select this kid if he is still on the board....
The true Knickabocker..........
fishmike
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6/20/2005  7:55 PM
its not just Briggs touting this kid's talent and upside. Its Jim Calhoun... thats kind of the whole point. Thats the guy who you could argue is the best talent evaluator in the country, NBA, CBB or otherwise. When JC says a kid is special its a pretty solid bet he will be.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Vmart
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6/20/2005  8:45 PM
I agree the UCONN coach wants this kid for one reason only because he will lead them to a NCAA championship. He will be a top 3 pick next year and possibly number one overall in two. It would be wise for the KNicks to pick this future number one pick with the number 8 pick this year. These type of chances only come around once in a life time to get a player with number one skills. I don't see any reason why the KNicks can't invest time into a future number one overall pick. We praise IT for finding a future first round pick in Ariza in the second round well this time Isiah has to see the future #1 pick in Bynum.

[Edited by - Vmart on 06/20/2005 20:47:41]

[Edited by - Vmart on 06/20/2005 21:22:09]
Ira
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6/21/2005  5:31 AM
Regarding the Knicks drafting Frye, remember the team Isaiah played on. Their big men were Rick Mahorn and Bill Laimbeer. It was a team that played tough d and was nasty. I once saw Isaih punching Mark Price in the chest as he drove by him to the hoop. I can't see this same individual drafting a finesse big man.
Question for BRIGGS

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