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Good article about Channing frye
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BRIGGS
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6/18/2005  7:04 PM
But im thinking this is a mixed message. How can anyone put on that much weight so fast,become a better athlete in like 6-8 weeks? I really question if this guy isnt juicing.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-frye-nba&prov=ap&type=lgns


20 pounds in 6 weeks and wants 10 pounds heavier--give me those fruit loops!

On the other hand, is shows a willingness to work hard and get strong. If he juiced or not, I dont care, like I dont care if Barry Bonds ever took any juice, he is what he is and well, he went from 243 to 250 for this article in a week's time!
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Bonn1997
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6/18/2005  7:22 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

But im thinking this is a mixed message. How can anyone put on that much weight so fast,become a better athlete in like 6-8 weeks? I really question if this guy isnt juicing.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-frye-nba&prov=ap&type=lgns


20 pounds in 6 weeks and wants 10 pounds heavier--give me those fruit loops!

On the other hand, is shows a willingness to work hard and get strong. If he juiced or not, I dont care, like I dont care if Barry Bonds ever took any juice, he is what he is and well, he went from 243 to 250 for this article in a week's time!
If it's unhealthy to put on 20 pounds in 6 weeks, it's gotta be unhealthy to take off 55 pounds in about the same time (or what 12 weeks maybe) like Andrew Bynum did.
BRIGGS
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6/18/2005  7:45 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BRIGGS:

But im thinking this is a mixed message. How can anyone put on that much weight so fast,become a better athlete in like 6-8 weeks? I really question if this guy isnt juicing.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-frye-nba&prov=ap&type=lgns


20 pounds in 6 weeks and wants 10 pounds heavier--give me those fruit loops!

On the other hand, is shows a willingness to work hard and get strong. If he juiced or not, I dont care, like I dont care if Barry Bonds ever took any juice, he is what he is and well, he went from 243 to 250 for this article in a week's time!
If it's unhealthy to put on 20 pounds in 6 weeks, it's gotta be unhealthy to take off 55 pounds in about the same time (or what 12 weeks maybe) like Andrew Bynum did.


Im pretty sure Bynum went from 310 to 280 in 3 months, I don't think that is radical weight loss for a seventeen YO! do you? a young guy can take off ten pounds month.


Im not saying Channing is unhealthy or anything like that. But I will say I think anyone who has played sports in HS, college, understands that putting on 20 pounds of lean muscle in 6 weeks is nearly impossible. There is one way to do it, but it's not legal.
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KNICKSdom
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6/18/2005  9:11 PM
Yea thats true, I'm thinking Frye is gaining weight a little too fast. Hey he is a high maintance type of player from watching a clip of highlights from him. I don't think the guy juiced up but got jacked up from a good workout program. This guy no doubt, would start at center for the Knicks this year.
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BRIGGS
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6/18/2005  9:15 PM
By the way, I looked up Channing's rebounding totals, he had double figure rebounds in

14 of 62 regular season games in high tempo playing 31 minutes.
just for example emeka okafor had more double digit rebounding games HURT in his last YEAR than Channing had in three full YEARS at AZ
EO-24 in 04
Frye 20 in 03-04-05 reg season 90+ games

thats the thing with frye, someone show me evidence that this is not true--this guy doesnt show up many nights--nights where he has 3 rebounds in 30 minutes 3 reb 4 reb several times during every season. If he doesnt show up every game in a 30 game run, how about 100 games? doesnt that apply as character? not showing up?

yes he played well in 4 of 5 post season games, but the body of work is what counts. there are plenty of guys who play well in the post season in the NCAA over 3-4 games, happens every year. thats why the knicks picked dontae jones and john wallace!
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MaulingandAppalling
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6/18/2005  9:29 PM
Also, putting on weight that fast - isn't that how Marcus got platar fasci-whatever in his feet - because he added 20 lbs of muscle one summer and it was too much at once?
Marv
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6/18/2005  9:31 PM
Posted by MaulingandAppalling:

Also, putting on weight that fast - isn't that how Marcus got platar fasci-whatever in his feet - because he added 20 lbs of muscle one summer and it was too much at once?

yeah that was the summer that jvg got so excited because camby showed up at camp with stretch marks on his tatoos!!
Vmart
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6/18/2005  9:34 PM
Posted by MaulingandAppalling:

Also, putting on weight that fast - isn't that how Marcus got platar fasci-whatever in his feet - because he added 20 lbs of muscle one summer and it was too much at once?

Marcus was just a injury prone player. He would get hurt just getting up from bed in the morning He was just a fragile player.
Rich
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6/19/2005  12:15 AM
I have often read about college football players putting on 20+ lbs. from the end of the season until the NFL draft, but I don't recall any college basketball players doing it.

Lenny Dykstra did over the course of one baseball off season, and he obviously juiced.
BigSm00th
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6/19/2005  1:06 AM
Zona's season ended the last week of March. It is the second week of June.

By my calculation, that is one more week in March, four in April, four in May, and two in June. Eleven weeks, 20 pounds, doesn't seem that outrageous.

Why are we criticizing him for working his ass off and shedding the soft label. I wouldn't be angry at all if the Knicks went with him.
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BRIGGS
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6/19/2005  1:46 AM
Posted by BigSm00th:

Zona's season ended the last week of March. It is the second week of June.

By my calculation, that is one more week in March, four in April, four in May, and two in June. Eleven weeks, 20 pounds, doesn't seem that outrageous.

Why are we criticizing him for working his ass off and shedding the soft label. I wouldn't be angry at all if the Knicks went with him.

its funny big smooth, i defended and argued for Frye on real GM draft board like 3 months ago that he was a lottery pick to mid range pick 13-18. I never thought that he'd be in our range. yes its great that hes working hard, imho he has a lot to prove

when you get double digit rebounds in 14 of 62 games at 6-10, show up every other game and let guys like Diogu punk you around, its time to change something. i cant fairly assess a guy who I havent seen with this new found physique and strength. Im going to give him a very fair chance, im not going to scream if they pick--someone like vazquez--yeah i think i would be peod, but i put an asterick next to this because I do not feel, from what I know, that he is BPA player oR prospect available. I feel its a slight reach, while he is working out hard, I think TT works out hard, no? but there is a big part of the game mentally and physically bringing it every night. so far, with 4 yars of college, he has not done that. also, putting on 20 pounds of lean mass usually takes more than 1 year. Whatever it is 7 weeks 10 weeks, it's seems like either he is not telling the truth or that the 7 pound figure on another post is more accurate. but it is good to be working hard. heck, the last 8 games of the season bought him a lotto ticket
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BigSm00th
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6/19/2005  2:28 AM
Oh, I agree with you that I think there are better directions to go at the 8th pick (Granger, Graham in particular). However, I'm saying a guy who is 6'11", played well in big games, can block shots, shoot a pretty good ball, and has worked hard is a guy I'd like to take. He's basically different in every regard from Chris Taft, who some people on this board want the Knicks to draft.

I think Frye will be a poor man's Camby, a guy who will give you 12 points, 6 rebounds, and 2 blocks. Not somebody I'd want with the 8th pick, with lottery I look for a mix of a high ceiling and guaranteed results. I think Frye's ceiling is pretty low, as you pointed out, but I'd take him over a host of big man, like Taft, the foreign guys, and that clown from GT.

Will I boo if the Knicks take Frye? No. But I won't cheer either.
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Bonn1997
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6/19/2005  3:46 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BRIGGS:

But im thinking this is a mixed message. How can anyone put on that much weight so fast,become a better athlete in like 6-8 weeks? I really question if this guy isnt juicing.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-frye-nba&prov=ap&type=lgns


20 pounds in 6 weeks and wants 10 pounds heavier--give me those fruit loops!

On the other hand, is shows a willingness to work hard and get strong. If he juiced or not, I dont care, like I dont care if Barry Bonds ever took any juice, he is what he is and well, he went from 243 to 250 for this article in a week's time!
If it's unhealthy to put on 20 pounds in 6 weeks, it's gotta be unhealthy to take off 55 pounds in about the same time (or what 12 weeks maybe) like Andrew Bynum did.


Im pretty sure Bynum went from 310 to 280 in 3 months, I don't think that is radical weight loss for a seventeen YO! do you? a young guy can take off ten pounds month.


Im not saying Channing is unhealthy or anything like that. But I will say I think anyone who has played sports in HS, college, understands that putting on 20 pounds of lean muscle in 6 weeks is nearly impossible. There is one way to do it, but it's not legal.
Oh, I thought you said Bynum went from 335 to 280
crzymdups
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6/19/2005  10:11 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by BigSm00th:

Zona's season ended the last week of March. It is the second week of June.

By my calculation, that is one more week in March, four in April, four in May, and two in June. Eleven weeks, 20 pounds, doesn't seem that outrageous.

Why are we criticizing him for working his ass off and shedding the soft label. I wouldn't be angry at all if the Knicks went with him.

its funny big smooth, i defended and argued for Frye on real GM draft board like 3 months ago that he was a lottery pick to mid range pick 13-18. I never thought that he'd be in our range. yes its great that hes working hard, imho he has a lot to prove

when you get double digit rebounds in 14 of 62 games at 6-10, show up every other game and let guys like Diogu punk you around, its time to change something. i cant fairly assess a guy who I havent seen with this new found physique and strength. Im going to give him a very fair chance, im not going to scream if they pick--someone like vazquez--yeah i think i would be peod, but i put an asterick next to this because I do not feel, from what I know, that he is BPA player oR prospect available. I feel its a slight reach, while he is working out hard, I think TT works out hard, no? but there is a big part of the game mentally and physically bringing it every night. so far, with 4 yars of college, he has not done that. also, putting on 20 pounds of lean mass usually takes more than 1 year. Whatever it is 7 weeks 10 weeks, it's seems like either he is not telling the truth or that the 7 pound figure on another post is more accurate. but it is good to be working hard. heck, the last 8 games of the season bought him a lotto ticket


Briggs, how many double digit rebound games did Camby have his three years of college?

¿ △ ?
BRIGGS
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6/19/2005  11:26 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by BRIGGS:

[quote]Posted by BigSm00th:

Zona's season ended the last week of March. It is the second week of June.

By my calculation, that is one more week in March, four in April, four in May, and two in June. Eleven weeks, 20 pounds, doesn't seem that outrageous.

Why are we criticizing him for working his ass off and shedding the soft label. I wouldn't be angry at all if the Knicks went with him.

its funny big smooth, i defended and argued for Frye on real GM draft board like 3 months ago that he was a lottery pick to mid range pick 13-18. I never thought that he'd be in our range. yes its great that hes working hard, imho he has a lot to prove

when you get double digit rebounds in 14 of 62 games at 6-10, show up every other game and let guys like Diogu punk you around, its time to change something. i cant fairly assess a guy who I havent seen with this new found physique and strength. Im going to give him a very fair chance, im not going to scream if they pick--someone like vazquez--yeah i think i would be peod, but i put an asterick next to this because I do not feel, from what I know, that he is BPA player oR prospect available. I feel its a slight reach, while he is working out hard, I think TT works out hard, no? but there is a big part of the game mentally and physically bringing it every night. so far, with 4 yars of college, he has not done that. also, putting on 20 pounds of lean mass usually takes more than 1 year. Whatever it is 7 weeks 10 weeks, it's seems like either he is not telling the truth or that the 7 pound figure on another post is more accurate. but it is good to be working hard. heck, the last 8 games of the season bought him a lotto ticket


Briggs, how many double digit rebound games did Camby have his three years of college?

I don't know how to translate this, but Marcus Camby was CPOY and averaged over 20 points and 4 blocks. he was a omdinating player that intimdated other teams. teams had their gameplan to work against Marcus Camby. Channing showed up at the end of the season and went from pick 20 to pick 8 in 8 games.

I guess there is nothing else to say other than I hope for the best and that its good he is putting on weight and showed strength. I said that I thought Channing reminded me of a small version of Tim Duncan at various times without the leg strength[which is why Tim is a dominating rebounder] Tim Duncan light sounds good, but so did Timmy Thomas. But they share a certain probelm, they dont show up every game and lack toughness. If you can prove other wise, please give me evidence through #s--where is Channing Frye throughout the season? He shows up some games, then goes 2-14 with 6 rebounds.
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Marv
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6/19/2005  11:55 AM
BRIGGS, I'm looking at his senior year nummbers and i'm seeing the following:

guy shot .554 from the field and .830 from the line. Sure he had some games 3-12 and 2-14. He also had games of 10-11 and 13-15. Does it mean he "didn't show up" in the games he shot poorly? Or isn't it possible for a guy to have some bad games? When a guy ends up his season shooting .554 form the field, to go back over the games he shot poorly and say that they indicate that he "doesn't show up" some nights looks like reading too much into statistics just to push your point.

he hit double figures in rebounding 9 times during the year (plus in 3 of his 4 post season games) and averaged 7.6 for the year. You keep comparing him to Emaka Okafor. Why? Okafor IMO is a one-of-a kind player, already one of the very best rebounders in the NBA, a guy who I thought from the beginning should have been the #1 pick, I've always liked him more than Howard. The guy had a phenomenal rookie year, better than Stoudemire's, he's an unreal player to me. If we had the #1 pick and you wanted to compare Bogut's college perforamance to Okafor's then that would be fair in my eyes. What's with comparing the #8 pick's to him? You may be trying to make a point about "showing up every night," but I'd say you're only harping about the expected difference between the typical #1 big man and the #8 big man. Thats' what happens when you look at who's available in those 2 slots, it's apples and oranges to bring those 2 together in comparison.
BRIGGS
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6/19/2005  12:46 PM
Reular season #s

33 reg season games

games with double digit reb=9
games with 5 rebounds or less=14


compare to some lotttery guys rebounds
Frye-31 min 7.5
May 26 min 10.7
Granger 30 min=9 reb
CV 25 min 8.3 reb
simien 30 min=11 reb
hakim 34 min= 8.6
Gomes 37 =9.2 reb
diougu 36 min=9.8 reb

only other Cs in draft
Bogut 34 min =12.2
Dwayne Jones 35=11.6


on a value basis Chris Taft had better numbers than Frye--and I see a correlation between the 2, both play great at times, other times they are a mystery.

branden bass who is projected 2nd rounder, is 5 times as physical, yet 3 inches smaller and outrebounds Frye

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=15370


here is CBB top 50 rebounders-channing gets in there because of the extra games he played, but he doesnt even rank top 50 in reb per game in CBB

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/stats/bycategory?cat=Fielding&conference_id=NCAAB&sort=9

Shot blocking per game Channing Frye =28 out of 50

so you can see why some people worry. someone talked about camby--camby ws number 1 in shot blocking and averaged over 20 points.

although Channing has a very fundamental game, his effort numbers are poor and his points scored are average. Were talking tweener and a jack of all trades yet a master of none.
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Marv
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6/19/2005  1:40 PM
Pretty nice post, except . . . if you're going to be such a stickler about your statistics you should make sure you report them accurately: e.g., he had 5 or fewer rebounds in 12 games this year, not 14:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=4971

Also, there's a bigger point here - do you want any of those other guys at 8 you've listed in youir post to compare him to? Do you want to take Charlie V, Chris Taft, Sean May, Wayne Simien, Hakim, Gomes, Diougu, Dwayne Jones, Branden Bass? At 8? I don't. I'd drather have Fryre. He's a better prospect at that slot IMO, especially for a team with 0 centers. Every player has flaws and you can point out all the numbers you want to support that. You could do that with each of the players you've mentioned, or you could do it with any player being considered for the lottery.

Now Granger he may be another story. He may be worth the #8 over Frye even for such a SEVERELY deficient team at center as ours because of his real star protential. That's a possibility, i haven't put that one to bed yet.
JUNKMEIN
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6/19/2005  3:16 PM
It's all very Fruedian with Briggs as far as Frye is concerned

Bottom Line, Briggs wants Bynum at Eight......right Briggs


In fact so do I. C'mon Isiah, bring the kid through the tunnel.
diderotn
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6/19/2005  6:58 PM
I don't know why, but I will agree with Marv on this one...I like Briggs expertise and everything, but at 8 Frye is my man....I don't know much about Bynum, so I don't want to select him with our lottery pick....If we can orchestrate a trade to get another first round pick, than yeah get the youngin..
The true Knickabocker..........
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Good article about Channing frye
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