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Chicago "Combine" results (strength, quickness, leaping, etc) from Chad
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crzymdups
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6/16/2005  12:25 PM
Check the Winners and Losers section for an interesting note about our good friend Mr. Frye.

Updated: June 16, 2005, 10:50 AM ET
Graham stands out as the camp's best athleteBy Chad Ford
ESPN Insider
Archive

There are three ways to help your draft stock at the Chicago predraft camp.

First, you can actually play well in the event, like Luther Head and David Lee did, and convince scouts that you're first-round material.

Second, you can stand against a wall, spread your arms out and possibly measure longer/bigger than team originally thought you were. Guys like Chris Paul and Ike Diogu did that this year.

Finally, you can go through the NBA draft combine and prove to scouts that you're quicker, stronger, or can jump higher than your original scouting report.

Insider exclusively obtained a list of the Chicago pre-draft camp combine results on Wednesday. The combine measures four key areas: strength (bench press repetitions of 185 pounds), vertical jump, lane agility (how fast a player moves laterally around the key), and speed (¾-court sprint). Then the league adds those up and gives an athletic ranking to each player in the draft.

The overall winner this year was Oklahoma State's Joey Graham, who blew away the competition. Second was Georgia Tech's Will Bynum. Other top players with good scores included Rashad McCants (3rd overall), Luther Head (6th), David Lee (11th), Marvin Williams (15th), Chris Paul (16th) and Raymond Felton (18th).

There was one major surprise in the top 20 -- Illinois point guard Deron Williams finished 10th, ahead of both Paul and Felton. Part of that had to do with strength; Williams bench pressed 185 pounds 15 times, which is really great for a point guard. However, that wasn't the full story.

There have been major questions about Williams' lateral quickness, but he actually tested quicker than Paul in the lane agility drill and finished .03 seconds behind Paul in the sprint. Williams has lost about 15 pounds and is down to 7½ percent body fat, which obviously has helped his athleticism.

The bottom end of the spectrum included mostly international players and lumbering big men. Georgia Tech center Luke Schensher finished at the bottom of the list (75th). Ersan Ilyasova (74th) and Martynas Andriuskevicius (73rd) also tested poorly.

The shock on the low end was high school star Monta Ellis, who finished 70th. His strength, vertical jump and lateral quickness were all on the low end of the scale. That could be devastating to his draft chances.

Other disappointments included Andrew Bogut (61st), Martell Webster (60th), Rudy Fernandez (57th), Antoine Wright (55th), Jarrett Jack (54th) and Francisco Garcia (51st).

Luther Head ranked as the most athletic point guard in camp. Will Bynum took the award for the 2-guards. Joey Graham won for 3s, David Lee for 4s and Marcin Gortat for centers.

Ellis was the worst ranked guard in camp at either position. Ilyasova finished last among small forwards while Taylor Coppenrath was last for power forwards and Luke Schenscher finished at the bottom of the heap for centers.

On the individual test front, Will Bynum recorded the highest one-step vertical jump at 40½ inches. Gerald Green and Ronnie Price tied for second at 39 inches, followed by Luther Head at 38½. Chris Paul and Hakim Warrick rounded out the top-five, each launching a 38-inch leap.

Luke Schensher recorded the worst vertical jump, at 26½ inches. He was followed by Taylor Coppenrath and Jason Klotz (27 inches) and Martynas Andriuskevicius and Wayne Simien (27½ inches).

Joey Graham won the strength test, bench pressing 185 pounds an impressive 26 times. Ike Diogu finished second with 21 reps, followed by Chuck Hayes with 20. Channing Frye helped himself shed the soft label a bit by hoisting the bar 19 times. Eric Williams, Marcin Gortat and David Simon all finished tied for fifth with 18 reps.

As happens every year, several top players were unable or barely able to do this drill. Monta Ellis, Rudy Fernandez, Martynas Andriuskevicius, Brandon Rush and Daryl Dorsey got a zero for the drill. Luke Schensher and Travis Diener could only lift the bar once.

In the lane agility drill, Michigan State's Alan Anderson recorded the fastest time at 10.32 seconds. Rashad McCants was second at 10.39. John Lucas ranked third, Rudy Fernandez fourth and Raymond Felton fifth.

Jason Klotz, Ellis Myles and Deji Akindele finished at the bottom of the heap. Monta Ellis and Andrew Bogut also recorded terrible times of above 12 seconds.

In the ¾-court sprint, Will Bynum recorded the fastest time at 3 seconds. Joey Graham, Raymond Felton, Rashad McCants and John Lucas were also in the top five. Marvin Williams and Julius Hodge finished in the top 10.

Jason Klotz earns the awarded as the slowest guy in camp with a 3.68 seconds time. Ersan Ilyasova, Andrew Bogut, D'or Fischer and Torin Francis rounded out the five slowest guys in camp.

Here's a look at how 30 of the top draft prospects performed in each event. Note that several top prospects, including Fran Vazquez, Johan Petro, Nate Robinson, Ryan Gomes, Brandon Bass, Matt Walsh and Linas Kleiza, did not participate in the testing.

Chicago Predraft Combine Results 
Name Bench press Vertical jump Lane Agility ¾-court sprint Overall rank
Joey Graham 26 36" 10.62 3.05 1
Rashad McCants 15 34½ in 10.39 3.11 3
Luther Head 14 38½" 11.12 3.21 7
Deron Williams 15 35" 10.83 3.25 10
David Lee 14 32½" 10.80 3.19 11
Marvin Williams 12 35" 11.11 3.17 15
Chris Paul 10 38½" 11.09 3.22 16
Raymond Felton 6 33½" 10.50 3.06 18
Ronny Turiaf 15 33" 11.50 3.23 21
Gerald Green 7 39" 11.2 3.21 24
Chris Taft 14 33" 11.26 3.27 25
Julius Hodge 14 29" 10.89 3.18 26
Sean May 12 33" 11.04 3.29 27
Danny Granger 10 34" 10.84 3.34 31
Channing Frye 19 31" 11.60 3.38 33
Dwayne Jones 15 31½" 11.87 3.25 38
Ike Diogu 21 31" 11.94 3.45 39
Charlie Villanueva 11 31" 10.86 3.3 42
Wayne Simien 11 27½" 11.05 3.35 49
Francisco Garcia 5 31½" 10.63 3.33 51
Jarrett Jack 5 28½" 10.87 3.24 54
Antoine Wright 12 29½" 11.45 3.41 55
Rudy Fernandez 0 35½" 10.48 3.33 56
Martell Webster 7 30½" 11.39 3.39 59
Andrew Bogut 13 33½" 12.06 3½1 60
Hakim Warrick 11 38" N/A 3.22 61
Monta Ellis 0 31½" 12.13 3.31 70
Martynas Andriuskevicius 0 27½" 11.94 3.42 73
Ersan Ilyasova 2 30" 11.59 3½6 74




So who was helped and hurt by the testing?


WINNERS
Deron Williams -- Scouts have been questioning his quickness and athleticism all year. Now that he's lost some of that body fat, that no longer seems to be an issue. He's not as fast as Raymond Felton and doesn't jump as high as Chris Paul, but he's clearly in the same league athletically.

Joey Graham -- It doesn't come as a huge surprise that Graham came out on top. If you've seen him play much, you know he's an unbelievable athlete. Still, finishing on top of the heap should guarantee he gets selected in the lottery.

Will Bynum -- He was the last guy invited to Chicago and played extremely well, especially on the defensive end. A few scouts believe he might be a better prospect than Nate Robinson (the guy who tested as the top athlete in Chicago last year). I doubt he gets selected ahead of Nate, but he's definitely in the second-round mix now.

Rashad McCants -- There are still questions about his attitude, but it's rare to find such a great shooter who can also test off the charts athletically (just look at Martell Webster and Antoine Wright). Someone's going to ignore the baggage and take him in the late lottery to mid-first round.

Channing Frye -- He's stronger and more athletic than scouts have given him credit. The 19 reps on the bench press will turn a lot of heads.

David Lee -- Athletically, he tested as the top power forward in the draft. His lane agility scores are what really stand out. Lee has very quick feet, which will really help him defensively in the pros. Combine that with his strong play in Chicago and Lee seems like he's another step closer to securing a spot in the first round.

Marcin Gortat -- He had just a so-so camp, but he tested out as the most athletic center in the draft. He could be off the board in the first 10 picks of the second round if he decides to stay in the draft.

Sean May -- His numbers don't jump out at you, but he showed a better vertical jump and more agility than his main competition: Ike Diogu, Wayne Simien and Chris Taft. Maybe that will balance out the fact that he measured smaller than all of them.

LOSERS
Andrew Bogut -- He's been trying to dispel the "great white stiff" myth for the past few weeks. This doesn't help. While his vertical leap is actually above average for a guy his size, his lateral quickness and sprinting speed were just awful. That will hurt him defensively.

Wayne Simien -- Simien finished well below the other top big men in almost every area. Especially shocking is his lack of explosion jumping off one foot. His one-step vertical was only a half inch more than his standing vertical. That was, by far, the worst in the camp.

Antoine Wright -- Scouts have been warning that Wright looks more athletic than he actually is. At the combine, he was significantly below Francisco Garcia, a guy almost every scout in the league has knocked for his lack of athleticism. Had he not benched an impressive 12 reps, he would have landed close to the bottom. That's going to come back to haunt Wright.

Jarrett Jack -- He has great size and toughness, but athletically, he tested well behind most of the point guards in this draft. With Roko Ukic making a strong push, it could cause him to slip.

The High Schoolers -- Monta Ellis, Martell Webster and Brandon Rush all tested terribly. That's partly because of their age and partly because guys like Ellis and Rush might not have been training for these particular tests the way some players do.

We knew that Webster was just an average athlete but Ellis was a huge shock. For an undersized 2-guard to be successful in the League, he has to be long, quick and explosive. Ellis is none of the above. There's been talk that Minnesota is flirting with taking him at No. 14. It's pretty hard to justify that after seeing these numbers.

The Internationals -- They always struggle every year. With the exception of Gortat, they all were near the bottom of the heap. Most of them have never lifted weights before (which hurts their bench press numbers) and most are bigs lacking any real explosion or quickness.

Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.
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crzymdups
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6/16/2005  12:30 PM
Frye not only benched pressed more than most guys in the camp, he was also only .04sec behind Granger in the 3/4 court sprint and faster than guys like Bogut, Diogu and Antoine Wright. He also posted the same vertical as Diogu and Villanueva and better vertical than guys like Julius Hodge and Martell Webster. I have no idea what "lane agility" means, but Frye's was better than Boguts, Diogus and Villanuevas.

So, obviously, some of the questioning of Frye's athleticism has been inflated just a little.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/16/2005 12:31:13]
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purple012870
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6/16/2005  12:38 PM
Thanks for posting that. Good comments as well.
martin
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6/16/2005  12:51 PM
it's too bad that we can't get a re-cap of like the previous 3 years worth of combine results. Maybe like the top 10 selected draftees to compare the combine results with NBA basketball results.

Seriously, these combine results are really nothing without the comparison to how the players ended up playing in the NBA after they were selected.
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crzymdups
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6/16/2005  12:53 PM
Posted by martin:

it's too bad that we can't get a re-cap of like the previous 3 years worth of combine results. Maybe like the top 10 selected draftees to compare the combine results with NBA basketball results.

Seriously, these combine results are really nothing without the comparison to how the players ended up playing in the NBA after they were selected.

Good point. I do remember certain players who fell because of slowness and weakness weren't actually that good. I remember Sweetney only did four reps on the bar!!! I also remember that Emeka didn't do great on the bar. But yeah, a recap of that stuff would be interesting.

But just looking at this stuff, holy crap, Joey Graham is a super athlete. That guy seems like he has bigger, meaner, faster Corey Maggette written all over him.
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franco12
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6/16/2005  12:55 PM
wonder if bogut will fall- and wonder how his #'s stack up against other players like a brad miller, tim duncan, etc.
crzymdups
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6/16/2005  12:58 PM
okay, so I found the 2004 combine results in the archives, couldn't find 2003. Some interesting stuff here, like Josh Smith was off the charts with his leaping, so was Nate Robinson (44" vertical, are you kidding?). Humpries and Snyder did well, and obviously didn't have good rookie seasons. Okafor did really well actually. Tony Allen upped his stock to the first round...anyway here tis...


Updated: June 18, 2004, 11:14 AM ET


Snyder, Humphries draft's top athletesBy Chad Ford
ESPN Insider
Archive


Mock draft (June 14): Standard version | Slideshow version
Who really has a 40-inch vertical? Who's the strongest player in the draft? Who's the quickest? After months of conjecture, things finally were measured at the Chicago pre-draft camp last weekend.

The NBA keeps the list confidential, but sources within the league leaked the results of the NBA combine to Insider late Thursday night. Some numbers were very surprising.

Washington sophomore Nate Robinson tested as the best athlete at the camp, recording an amazing 43.5-inch vertical, bench pressing a 185-pound bar 13 times and recording a 10.75 time in the lane-agility test. Robinson, however, withdrew from the draft Thursday.

Nevada's Kirk Snyder (2nd), Minnesota's Kris Humphries (4th), UConn's Emeka Okafor (8th) and St. Joseph's Jameer Nelson (10th) were the only potential lottery picks to finish in the top 10 overall.

Oklahoma State's Tony Allen (3rd), Mississippi State's Tim Bowers (5th), Missouri's Rickey Paulding (6th), Seton Hall's Andre Barrett (7th) and Manhattan's Luis Flores (9th) filled out the top 10.

Okafor and Humphries tied for the camp record in bench press this year with 22 reps each. Robinson and Bowers both recorded the highest vertical jumps at 43.5 inches. Duke's Chris Duhon had the fastest lane-agility time at 10.45 seconds.

Here's an exclusive look at how the top prospects in the draft fared on the three most important measurements: bench press (reps of 185 pounds), maximum vertical jump (in inches), and lane-agility (in seconds).

Pre-Draft Camp Combine Results
Name Bench Press 185lbs Max. Vertical Jump Lane Agility Test
Josh Childress 11 reps 36" 11.95 sec.
Luol Deng 5 reps 31.5" 11.46 sec.
Ben Gordon 12 reps 37.5" 11.28 sec
Devin Harris 5 reps 37" 11.03 sec
Dwight Howard 7 reps 35.5" 11.21 sec.
Kris Humphries 22 reps 36" 11.33 sec.

Andre Iguodala 4 reps 34.5" 11.17 sec.
Luke Jackson 13 reps 36" 11.1 sec.
Al Jefferson 3 reps 30" 13.08 sec.
Shaun Livingston 0 reps 30" 10.72 sec.

Jameer Nelson 15 reps 33.5" 10.95 sec.
Emeka Okafor 22 reps 34" 12.32 sec.

Peter John Ramos 2 reps 26.5" 12.61 sec.
J.R. Smith 5 reps 35.5" 10.93 sec.

Josh Smith 12 reps 39.5" 11.43 sec.
Kirk Snyder 19 reps 35" 10.79 sec.



Several other top prospects including Andris Biedrins, Pavel Podkolzine, Sergey Monya, Rafael Araujo, Robert Swift, Dorell Wright, Viktor Khryapa, Anderson Varejao and Sebastian Telfair were not tested.

What does all of this mean? Here are some observations:


Snyder and Humphries helped their stock with outstanding results. Both players showed strength, quickness and leaping ability few believed they had. Snyder already looks like a lock to go somewhere in the late lottery. These results could push Humphries there as well. Gordon's and Nelson's results were also very impressive overall, though scouts already had them pegged as good athletes.

Deng and Jefferson took the biggest hits. Both showed an eye-popping lack of strength, jumping ability and quickness for guys their size. In his workouts, Deng appeared to be a better athlete than advertised. However, the results in Chicago could begin raising red flags again. Jefferson, at 265 pounds, couldn't bench press as much as 170-pound Devin Harris? Please. While Jefferson has proved to be an explosive jumper, he obviously doesn't get much lift.

The tale of the tape between Okafor and Howard was a draw. Okafor obviously was much stronger. The vertical jump essentially was a draw, with Howard showing a slight edge. Howard was much quicker in the lane-agility test.

The reports of J.R. Smith's 44-inch vertical were greatly exaggerated. Even Luke Jackson recorded a higher vertical in the Chicago testing. A 35.5-inch vertical isn't bad, but it's not off the charts, either.

Speaking of Jackson, he measured out to be as good an athlete as advertised. His 11.1 second lane-agility speed was topped only by a handful of point and shooting guards.

Josh Smith had the highest vertical of any lottery prospect at a whopping 39.5 inches. That's pretty amazing for a 6-foot-8 kid. He also showed above-average strength on the bench press.

Iguodala's performance on the bench press and vertical jumps were disappointing. He looks stronger and more athletic than he showed here. He did, however, record a very fast lane-agility time.

Livingston was the only guy who couldn't lift 185 pounds. It isn't surprising. He's still very thin, and his long arms make it difficult for him to get leverage in the bench press. His vertical jump also was a very pedestrian 30 inches. However, his lane-agility score was faster than any of the top prospects. Considering the position he plays and his height advantage, the lateral quickness measurement is much more important than his bench press.

Childress measured out stronger than we expected, but what's up with that nasty lane-agility score? Ugh.
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martin
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6/16/2005  12:58 PM
Posted by franco12:

wonder if bogut will fall- and wonder how his #'s stack up against other players like a brad miller, tim duncan, etc.

I am wondering why bogut or williams even bother to go through these exersizes. They are both a lock for a 1-3, right?
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eViL
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6/16/2005  12:59 PM
Posted by martin:

it's too bad that we can't get a re-cap of like the previous 3 years worth of combine results. Maybe like the top 10 selected draftees to compare the combine results with NBA basketball results.

Seriously, these combine results are really nothing without the comparison to how the players ended up playing in the NBA after they were selected.

You'd have to imagine that these numbers mean something if the scouts continue to use them though, wouldn't you? I mean if you rank well in all of these tests that should indicate that physically you have the tools.

I think the other factors involved would be the mental make-up of a player (which they attempt to determine with the psychological test that they administer).

And finally, actual in-game experience / overall skill set (good hands, shooting touch, instincts) - which they try to gather through a variety of workouts and game tape.
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martin
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6/16/2005  1:01 PM
THis is strange, from the combine tests from last year.

Iguodala is both strong and a leaper from what I remember....

Iguodala's performance on the bench press and vertical jumps were disappointing. He looks stronger and more athletic than he showed here. He did, however, record a very fast lane-agility time.
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6/16/2005  1:05 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

Frye not only benched pressed more than most guys in the camp, he was also only .04sec behind Granger in the 3/4 court sprint and faster than guys like Bogut, Diogu and Antoine Wright. He also posted the same vertical as Diogu and Villanueva and better vertical than guys like Julius Hodge and Martell Webster. I have no idea what "lane agility" means, but Frye's was better than Boguts, Diogus and Villanuevas.

So, obviously, some of the questioning of Frye's athleticism has been inflated just a little.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/16/2005 12:31:13]
who knocked his athleticism? I think most have agreed this is a highly skilled player with good quickness and athleticism. Its his heart, toughness and lower body stregth thats been questioned. The guy can run and he's got great skills to compliment... no knock there.
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6/16/2005  1:07 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by franco12:

wonder if bogut will fall- and wonder how his #'s stack up against other players like a brad miller, tim duncan, etc.

I am wondering why bogut or williams even bother to go through these exersizes. They are both a lock for a 1-3, right?

Good point. Looks like Bogut tried unsuccessfully to shed his image a slow stiff. & Williams might be looking to leap bogut
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6/16/2005  1:09 PM
Posted by martin:

THis is strange, from the combine tests from last year.

Iguodala is both strong and a leaper from what I remember....

Martin.. its one step vertical. So others maybe need momentum. Two three steps. The one step vertical is good for rebounding, shot blocking, etc.
Gerald Green had a 38" vertical but really does explode off the floor.
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6/16/2005  1:11 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by franco12:

wonder if bogut will fall- and wonder how his #'s stack up against other players like a brad miller, tim duncan, etc.

I am wondering why bogut or williams even bother to go through these exersizes. They are both a lock for a 1-3, right?
I think its required Martin. It amounts to taking a physical for a job. Unless you have a medical pass because of an injury you have to do it.
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6/16/2005  1:23 PM
To me, these Chicago camp results mean little. There were a ton of guys who do great in these camps and don't really turn out to be much, and nice versa. If it doesn't translate on the basketball court, then what does it matter? Keith Van Horn is a really athletic guy, and he never turned into that monster.

As for Frye, he is athletic, but he gets pushed around all the time, according to Briggs, so what does it matter there?
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6/16/2005  1:25 PM
Wright was a little disappointing but you have to remember that the guy can shoot. I'm sure H20 was terrible at the combine but with that said Wright still have very good athletism and leaping ability. Wright has had great worouts

Many of these high schoolers don't do well so you can't base Webster on the combine results.

McCants is looking as strong as I predicted

Granger, Graham when you take everything into account including college, workouts and the combine look the most impressive.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06/16/2005 13:29:33]
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6/16/2005  1:25 PM
it is a bit suspect to go from number of bench reps to overall strength for a basketball player. i would hope individual workouts would explore something like that to dispell any doubts before making omeone your pick.
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6/16/2005  1:27 PM
Who doesn't get push around??? The game of basketball is a game of beating guys and getting beat...you can lose and win some....that is the name of the game...The bottom line is this, whether or not he has what it takes to bounce back right after he gets knocked down...You know a monster like TD, Garnett, etc....


As for Frye, he is athletic, but he gets pushed around all the time, according to Briggs, so what does it matter there?
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6/16/2005  1:32 PM
Who is Marcin Gortat?
Gortat, Marcin 6' 11" 7' 0" 225.2 7' 3½" 9' 2"

Legit 7 footer with excellent wingspan and reach. He was ranked number 1 for athleticism for centers.
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6/16/2005  1:34 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

To me, these Chicago camp results mean little. There were a ton of guys who do great in these camps and don't really turn out to be much, and nice versa. If it doesn't translate on the basketball court, then what does it matter? Keith Van Horn is a really athletic guy, and he never turned into that monster.

As for Frye, he is athletic, but he gets pushed around all the time, according to Briggs, so what does it matter there?
I think 2 years ago it was Troy Bell who finished #1.
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Chicago "Combine" results (strength, quickness, leaping, etc) from Chad

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