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* My Dream Scenario for Draft Day *
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TMS
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6/15/2005  9:45 AM
package TT w/the #30 pick to TOR for Jalen Rose & the #16...then a sign & trade of KT for Kwame Brown & sign a backup PG via free agency (Juan Dixon?)

#8 pick - Greene, Granger or Webster
#16 pick - Bynum

C - Brown / Bynum
PF - Sweetney / Rose / Mo T
SF - #8 pick / Ariza / JYD
SG - Rose / Crawford
PG - Marbury / Dixon
IR - Houston / Butler

that's a young team w/huge upside potential that most knowledgeable Knick fans would be perfectly willing to be patient with
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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Killa4luv
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6/15/2005  9:52 AM
I think Penny is all that works for Jalen Rose and I wouldn;t give them tim and the #30 for the 16, but I would give penny and the #30 for the #16. But I would try not to give up the #30, we're saving them 14 million dollars!
Nalod
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6/15/2005  10:22 AM
with penny , your not getting anyting. WIth TT, you get some production for a guy playing for a contract. Anfernee is just showing up to pick up his check.
fishmike
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6/15/2005  10:28 AM
If we take back Jalen Rose we shold just get pick 16... no need to include #30. Thats just too much to move up IMO. We are talking $17mm and really setting Tor up for success in terms of cap space and flexibility. If they say no tell them good luck finding someone else to take Jalen's deal
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franco12
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6/15/2005  10:34 AM
Posted by fishmike:

If we take back Jalen Rose we shold just get pick 16... no need to include #30. Thats just too much to move up IMO. We are talking $17mm and really setting Tor up for success in terms of cap space and flexibility. If they say no tell them good luck finding someone else to take Jalen's deal

And on top of 16, I'd like to switch at the top too- our 8 for their 7.

They want to save money and get under the cap big time- then they must pay.

I'm getting a little tired of us always being the patsy in these deals where we get stuck with garbage contracts and we free up other teams to be able to sign big time free agents.
TMS
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6/15/2005  10:35 AM
Posted by Nalod:

with penny , your not getting anyting. WIth TT, you get some production for a guy playing for a contract. Anfernee is just showing up to pick up his check.

that's why i say TT is a better option...no one's taking Penny & giving up a 1st round pick.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
bigpimpin
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6/15/2005  10:39 AM
TMS, i could live with that scenario!
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
gunsnewing
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6/15/2005  10:48 AM
yeah I've been saying since the deadline trades and acquiring the extra picks how perfect a scenario picking up another mid 1st round pick would be. It would turn this thing around very quickly!

This is the perfect draft scenario if we can somehow pick up another 1st round pick for KT, TT, 30 and/or the Spurs 2006 pick. Green, Granger, or Wright at 8 and Bynum!

In 2-3yrs that team will be in the playoffs every year and adding the right key smaller pieces with H20 gone would make it a contender!
martin
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6/15/2005  10:51 AM
interesting dream scenario.

If it is TT/Penny + #30 for the #16 + Rose, Bynum or Blanche better still be on the board and Isiah really has to be in love with either to do it, otherwise I don't do it.

Looking at the current TOR roster, they need a LOT of bodies, so I am thinking that they would want the extra pick:

TT/Penny + #30 + #54 : #16 + Rose. I still do that trade, but would TOR? They need to sign extra players but CHI has already shown that just having salary cap dollars won't attract the right players.
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crzymdups
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6/15/2005  11:20 AM
Posted by martin:

interesting dream scenario.

If it is TT/Penny + #30 for the #16 + Rose, Bynum or Blanche better still be on the board and Isiah really has to be in love with either to do it, otherwise I don't do it.

Looking at the current TOR roster, they need a LOT of bodies, so I am thinking that they would want the extra pick:

TT/Penny + #30 + #54 : #16 + Rose. I still do that trade, but would TOR? They need to sign extra players but CHI has already shown that just having salary cap dollars won't attract the right players.

I would do the Rose trade. Even if Blatche or Bynum are gone, you can still grab a Taft or a Warrick or maybe even a Graham at 16. And I think Rose would be a great fit here.
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TMS
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6/15/2005  11:21 AM
i think being as they're a small market team, that extra cap savings would be important to them regardless whether they'll be able to attract a bigname FA or not...but you have to also give them some reason to make the trade...this way, they get cap space & don't have to lose their other 1st round pick...they just move down to take the cap savings...i see it as helping both teams get what they need.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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6/15/2005  11:22 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

I would do the Rose trade. Even if Blatche or Bynum are gone, you can still grab a Taft or a Warrick or maybe even a Graham at 16. And I think Rose would be a great fit here.

agreed...i wouldn't complain at all if we got Warrick at the #16 if Bynum was taken earlier.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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6/15/2005  11:24 AM
Posted by TMS:

i think being as they're a small market team, that extra cap savings would be important to them regardless whether they'll be able to attract a bigname FA or not
The small market label is actually a label that drives a lot of people here in the Toronto area crazy. (It's funny to hear how much it annoys them on the radio shows.) Toronto is actually the fifth largest market in North America, behind only NYC, LA, Chicago, and Boston.

If I ran the Raptors, I'd rather stick with Rose for two years. He's a pretty good player. I wouldn't move down from 16 (and a chance at Bynum, Warrick et al.) to 30 just to save a year on Rose's contract. An offer of TT, Sweetney, and pick #30 for Rose and pick #16 is something I'd do if I ran the Raptors, but that's too much for us to give up.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 06/15/2005 11:28:27]
knicksbabyyeah
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6/15/2005  11:24 AM
I'm not greedy, my dream scenario is just getting another pick (if we get another pick I could even live with Frye)
MS
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6/15/2005  11:39 AM
Jalen Rose sucks and doesn't help the knicks he only takes minutes away from Ariza.....

If we do the deal and get their pick out of it which i am not sure why they would do it, the deal may be worth it.....

Adding a Granger or Wright with the first pick, and then possibly Blacthe with the next pick and having a chance to get Bryum late or even

Marbury/Crawford
Wright/Houston
Jalen/Ariza
Sweetney/TT/Blacthe
KT/Rose/Brynum

IR: Mo Taylor

Let say we don't get Brynum, I really think its time to go young and see what we can get for Marbury because we need to be thinking about Wade and Lebron, cleveland could fall apart and Shaq may not have time left......

Acquire all the young talent you can and hold onto it
nyk4ever
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6/15/2005  11:50 AM
I love the draft ideas that came with your scenarion TMS. Getting Granger at 8 and Bynum at 16 would make me a very happy Knicks fan but I don't like the Jalen Rose aspect. Jalen is still a pretty good player in this league, but the last thing the Knicks need to do if they draft Danny Granger is to go out and get someone like Jalen Rose who would take alot of playing time away from not only only Ariza but also the draft-hopeful Danny Granger. Jalen's contract is huge too, I think he's still a good player but wouldn't be a great fit with the Knicks and the youth at the 2/3 that we could have.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bonn1997
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6/15/2005  11:55 AM
Jalen will be here for one season. Just one. Then he has an expiring contract that can easily be moved. If Ariza or any other drafted player is out playing Jalen, then give Jalen just 11 mpg at SG and 11 at SF. Or maybe 5 at PG, 9 at SG, and 8 at SF. If he doesn't like it, too bad.
TMS
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6/15/2005  11:57 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I love the draft ideas that came with your scenarion TMS. Getting Granger at 8 and Bynum at 16 would make me a very happy Knicks fan but I don't like the Jalen Rose aspect. Jalen is still a pretty good player in this league, but the last thing the Knicks need to do if they draft Danny Granger is to go out and get someone like Jalen Rose who would take alot of playing time away from not only only Ariza but also the draft-hopeful Danny Granger. Jalen's contract is huge too, I think he's still a good player but wouldn't be a great fit with the Knicks and the youth at the 2/3 that we could have.

i was thinking Rose would be taking minutes away from Crawford if anything...& anyway, 1 or 2 years will give both that #8 pick rookie & Ariza time to mature...getting rid of TT will actually open up more playing time for those guys imho.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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6/15/2005  11:59 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by nyk4ever:

I love the draft ideas that came with your scenarion TMS. Getting Granger at 8 and Bynum at 16 would make me a very happy Knicks fan but I don't like the Jalen Rose aspect. Jalen is still a pretty good player in this league, but the last thing the Knicks need to do if they draft Danny Granger is to go out and get someone like Jalen Rose who would take alot of playing time away from not only only Ariza but also the draft-hopeful Danny Granger. Jalen's contract is huge too, I think he's still a good player but wouldn't be a great fit with the Knicks and the youth at the 2/3 that we could have.

i was thinking Rose would be taking minutes away from Crawford if anything...& anyway, 1 or 2 years will give both that #8 pick rookie & Ariza time to mature...getting rid of TT will actually open up more playing time for those guys imho.
That's a good point. Now we have a legit 2 guard in Jalen. Now we can tell Jamal, "Either play smart and play hard on defense or sit." And we can actually mean it this time because we have a legit 2 guard who can come in when Jamal messes up. Just knowing that might make Jamal play harder on D.
nyk4ever
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6/15/2005  12:02 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by nyk4ever:

I love the draft ideas that came with your scenarion TMS. Getting Granger at 8 and Bynum at 16 would make me a very happy Knicks fan but I don't like the Jalen Rose aspect. Jalen is still a pretty good player in this league, but the last thing the Knicks need to do if they draft Danny Granger is to go out and get someone like Jalen Rose who would take alot of playing time away from not only only Ariza but also the draft-hopeful Danny Granger. Jalen's contract is huge too, I think he's still a good player but wouldn't be a great fit with the Knicks and the youth at the 2/3 that we could have.

i was thinking Rose would be taking minutes away from Crawford if anything...& anyway, 1 or 2 years will give both that #8 pick rookie & Ariza time to mature...getting rid of TT will actually open up more playing time for those guys imho.
That's a good point. Now we have a legit 2 guard in Jalen. Now we can tell Jamal, "Either play smart and play hard on defense or sit." And we can actually mean it this time because we have a legit 2 guard who can come in when Jamal messes up. Just knowing that might make Jamal play harder on D.

Good points Bonn and TMS. If this trade were offered to me and I was GM, I would make it just becuase we'd get the 16th pick in the draft and I would make it on that point alone but I think you both brought up good points about Jalen. I guess Jalen could help out here for a year or 2. I'm too lazy, does anyone know/remember how many years Jalen has left on his contract?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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