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BRIGGS
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6/14/2005  9:31 PM
1. Mil Bogut
2. Atl M Williams
3. Por C Paul[this pick will likely be traded}
4. NO D Williams [this pick may be traded]
5. Cha D Granger
6. Uta R Felton
7. Tor A Wright
8 NY fill in the blank?
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Rich
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6/14/2005  9:42 PM
Should the Knicks try to trade up?
Knick2001
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6/14/2005  9:47 PM
I still see Green going in the 4-7 picks.
daddynel
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6/14/2005  10:19 PM
Posted by Rich:

Should the Knicks try to trade up?
not if that's what happens. let the chips fall where they may. green / granger / bynum...that's a sweetazz cookie jar.
martin
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6/14/2005  10:29 PM
Posted by daddynel:
Posted by Rich:

Should the Knicks try to trade up?
not if that's what happens. let the chips fall where they may. green / granger / bynum...that's a sweetazz cookie jar.

multi-thread cookie reference. I like it.
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BRIGGS
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6/14/2005  10:44 PM
Posted by Rich:

Should the Knicks try to trade up?

i think the knicks have a hrd on for channing frye, i think they would pass on gerald Green or Bynum, although either has a much higher ceiling. i dont see it any other way, isiah loves channing, everyone knows it and they know that no one above them is taking channing frye
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Marv
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6/14/2005  10:49 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Rich:

Should the Knicks try to trade up?

i think the knicks have a hrd on for channing frye, i think they would pass on gerald Green or Bynum, although either has a much higher ceiling. i dont see it any other way, isiah loves channing, everyone knows it and they know that no one above them is taking channing frye

Yeah right now it looks like Frye. unless Bynum does something outrageous in workouts.

Either way I have a feeling we're going to wind up with a terrific player at 30 as well.
BRIGGS
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6/14/2005  11:03 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Rich:

Should the Knicks try to trade up?

i think the knicks have a hrd on for channing frye, i think they would pass on gerald Green or Bynum, although either has a much higher ceiling. i dont see it any other way, isiah loves channing, everyone knows it and they know that no one above them is taking channing frye

Yeah right now it looks like Frye. unless Bynum does something outrageous in workouts.

Either way I have a feeling we're going to wind up with a terrific player at 30 as well.


I wouldn't classify Frye as a terrific player. I would classify him as a tweener who has solid potential to bust. On the other side, I see his college stats as his upside. What scares me most about Frye is base strength, he has little. They jacked him up to 243, but when the high caloric drinks and supplements are gone--hes going back down to the low 230's ,, if he put on 20, he will lose ATLEAST 10. So our big post man will have no torso strength and poor bodyweight distrubtion. he has already proven in his college career he does not come to play every night and prefers the perimeter to the interior.

I could probably name 10 guys Id rather have.
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TheloniusMonk
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6/14/2005  11:03 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Rich:

Should the Knicks try to trade up?

i think the knicks have a hrd on for channing frye, i think they would pass on gerald Green or Bynum, although either has a much higher ceiling. i dont see it any other way, isiah loves channing, everyone knows it and they know that no one above them is taking channing frye

Yeah right now it looks like Frye. unless Bynum does something outrageous in workouts.

Either way I have a feeling we're going to wind up with a terrific player at 30 as well.

You guys are funny. It's as though some of you have never seen the draft unfold b4. If a GM makes it "obvious" that he likes someone and it's all the way down at 8 don't you guys realize that teams in the 11-18th slot, if THEY themselves like Frye, would work out a deal where that player is selected at like 5,6 or 7th and then work a trade with credible players involved? I mean come on now. It happens every year when teams behind get word that you like a player and they have to pick behind you. That said, if a GM really really really likes a player and he's not picking at 1 or 2, knowing that everything after that is totally up in the air, that GM would most certainly keep that selection to themselves.

Let's say we were selecting 1,2 or 3 in 2003.....everyone pretty much knew (roughly) who were the top 3. You don't let the whole world know I WANT WADE, I WANT WADE, I WANT WADE! You put your poker face on and keep it in the family. That's not ALL of the time but it kills me how every year Briggs and whoever else say "We're selecting so and so....case closed!".

A wise man knows that he actually knows nothing.
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BRIGGS
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6/14/2005  11:10 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Rich:

Should the Knicks try to trade up?

i think the knicks have a hrd on for channing frye, i think they would pass on gerald Green or Bynum, although either has a much higher ceiling. i dont see it any other way, isiah loves channing, everyone knows it and they know that no one above them is taking channing frye

Yeah right now it looks like Frye. unless Bynum does something outrageous in workouts.

Either way I have a feeling we're going to wind up with a terrific player at 30 as well.

You guys are funny. It's as though some of you have never seen the draft unfold b4. If a GM makes it "obvious" that he likes someone and it's all the way down at 8 don't you guys realize that teams in the 11-18th slot, if THEY themselves like Frye, would work out a deal where that player is selected at like 5,6 or 7th and then work a trade with credible players involved? I mean come on now. It happens every year when teams behind get word that you like a player and they have to pick behind you. That said, if a GM really really really likes a player and he's not picking at 1 or 2, knowing that everything after that is totally up in the air, that GM would most certainly keep that selection to themselves.

Let's say we were selecting 1,2 or 3 in 2003.....everyone pretty much knew (roughly) who were the top 3. You don't let the whole world know I WANT WADE, I WANT WADE, I WANT WADE! You put your poker face on and keep it in the family. That's not ALL of the time but it kills me how every year Briggs and whoever else say "We're selecting so and so....case closed!".

A wise man knows that he actually knows nothing.


I don't think we know nothing. I do think we know Isiah spent 4 days in Arizaona doing a DEEP, DEEP backround search adn having him go through secret workouts. We do know Channing hasnt really worked out much for other teams and weve heard of a promise. We need a big man and there are not many in the draft. This is a now team, I dont think they want to deal with ANYONE who may be considered even remotely a project IMHO.

On top of it, this revelation did nOT come out from a NY source, rather a small town AZ paper doing a story on their hometown boy. I dont think the Knicks were happy that it came out to tell you the truth.
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metra
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6/14/2005  11:37 PM
I agree with Briggs on this one. I dont think Isiah is sneaky enough to stay half a week somewhere and then have a small ass newspaper report it just to make a smokescreen.. I think it would be much easier just to make up some BS to Berman or Ford.

Obviously, no one knows who Isiah will pick but he def genuinely likes Frye.
rain
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6/15/2005  12:08 AM
Green won't make it to us.. Charlotte will take him. He's so explosive, his athleticism is so off the charts.. he may make it to us... he won't make it past us.
crzymdups
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6/15/2005  12:09 AM
yeah, I think as of today, Frye is Zeke's guy. If you look at Zeke's history in the draft with Toronto, and even as coach of the Pacers, it was always very clear who he liked and he always took that guy. I don't have a problem with Frye though. I like how some people have no problem with the idea of teaching Andrew Bynum how to play basketball at the highest level possible when the kid didn't even play a full HS slate, but then have questions as to whether Channing Frye will be able to retain muscle mass? WTF? I mean, Bynum just LOST 50lbs in 3 months! You're telling me THAT's healthy and permanent body change?

Who's to say this kid doesn't fatten up during the lock out? To me, taking a high school kid with no concept of how to play highly organized (i.e. running plays, running schemes) basketball and having no summer league due to lockout is a total recipe for disaster. I think that may be a big reason for Green's slip, that workout bit is ridiculous, no top ten pick works out against other draft players, Granger was the rare exception and he sky-rocketed.



¿ △ ?
crzymdups
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6/15/2005  12:10 AM
Posted by rain:

Green won't make it to us.. Charlotte will take him. He's so explosive, his athleticism is so off the charts.. he may make it to us... he won't make it past us.

I think Green will go before Wright on any team. Not sure if Green is still ahead of Granger though, kid is skyrocketing.
¿ △ ?
BRIGGS
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6/15/2005  12:20 AM
[quote]
Posted by crzymdups:

yeah, I think as of today, Frye is Zeke's guy. If you look at Zeke's history in the draft with Toronto, and even as coach of the Pacers, it was always very clear who he liked and he always took that guy. I don't have a problem with Frye though. I like how some people have no problem with the idea of teaching Andrew Bynum how to play basketball at the highest level possible when the kid didn't even play a full HS slate, but then have questions as to whether Channing Frye will be able to retain muscle mass? WTF? I mean, Bynum just LOST 50lbs in 3 months! You're telling me THAT's healthy and permanent body change?

Who's to say this kid doesn't fatten up during the lock out? To me, taking a high school kid with no concept of how to play highly organized (i.e. running plays, running schemes) basketball and having no summer league due to lockout is a total recipe for disaster. I think that may be a big reason for Green's slip, that workout bit is ridiculous, no top ten pick works out against other draft players, Granger was the rare exception and he sky-rocketed.




Come on, a 17 year old kid who put on weight partly due to an injury and takes off 20-30 pounds in 3 months on a strict diet and plenty of working out is much more reasonable than a 22 year old who puts On 15 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks. Just think about it. There is only 1 way to add that kind of weight in such a short period of time and it isnt legal. Im not talking fat, im talking muscle. the differnce is Andrew can monitor what he eats like every other human, but Channing will have trouble retaining such rapid muscle gain--if what they say is true, that he did indeed gain 15. there was some BS with Chad Ford saying he weighed 260, but if you read enough AZ papers, his natural weight is somewhere in the high 220s low 230s.
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BRIGGS
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6/15/2005  12:24 AM
Posted by metra:

I agree with Briggs on this one. I dont think Isiah is sneaky enough to stay half a week somewhere and then have a small ass newspaper report it just to make a smokescreen.. I think it would be much easier just to make up some BS to Berman or Ford.

Obviously, no one knows who Isiah will pick but he def genuinely likes Frye.

Isiah hasnt even mentioned Channing's name. When you start hyping names,he started with the monta ellis lottery pick gerald green in his last interview, the interview is set up so that they dont even mention a big man. We don't need to call in Sherlock Homes on this one.
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crzymdups
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6/15/2005  12:29 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

[
Come on, a 17 year old kid who put on weight partly due to an injury and takes off 20-30 pounds in 3 months on a strict diet and plenty of working out is much more reasonable than a 22 year old who puts On 15 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks. Just think about it. There is only 1 way to add that kind of weight in such a short period of time and it isnt legal. Im not talking fat, im talking muscle. the differnce is Andrew can monitor what he eats like every other human, but Channing will have trouble retaining such rapid muscle gain--if what they say is true, that he did indeed gain 15. there was some BS with Chad Ford saying he weighed 260, but if you read enough AZ papers, his natural weight is somewhere in the high 220s low 230s.

Frye was listed at 240lb this season by Arizona and ESPN.com. He weighed in at Chicago last Friday at 242lb. So my guess is he didn't gain anywhere near as much weight as people are saying. Is it possible when people say he gained 10lbs of muscle they're talking about turning some body fat into muscle? I'm asking, I don't know. I think Frye's weight gain and loss has been overrated and I think the player the Knicks see next season will look a lot like the Frye who was playing in the tournament. I do think the Knicks have good trainers who can work on a players core strength rather easily.

As for Bynum, the kid weighed 325 easy in March (McDonald's game), and now weighs 275-280. that doesn't sound healthy, and honestly it doesn't sound permanent. Maybe it is, maybe the weight comes back this summer. Maybe he took weight loss supplements like Eddy Curry that will lead to a heart problem. I don't know, and I'm not trying to imply that I do, but to me it's another question mark on an already questionable prospect. Yes, he has tremendous upside, but where he's at right now, turning down Uconn to be, what, the 16-19th pick or so, coming off knee injury, coming off massive weight loss, never played organized bball at a high level, low skill level from what I've read (no jumper, limited post moves), isn't working out with people who will ever be drafted (E. Williams went back to school).

I mean, I get the sense he's going back to school. I hope he does. I hope he turns into a top 3 pick in school. I don't think he makes any sense in NYC at 17, where he'd either rot on the bench Darko-style or get embarassed on the court.
¿ △ ?
BRIGGS
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6/15/2005  12:44 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by BRIGGS:

[
Come on, a 17 year old kid who put on weight partly due to an injury and takes off 20-30 pounds in 3 months on a strict diet and plenty of working out is much more reasonable than a 22 year old who puts On 15 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks. Just think about it. There is only 1 way to add that kind of weight in such a short period of time and it isnt legal. Im not talking fat, im talking muscle. the differnce is Andrew can monitor what he eats like every other human, but Channing will have trouble retaining such rapid muscle gain--if what they say is true, that he did indeed gain 15. there was some BS with Chad Ford saying he weighed 260, but if you read enough AZ papers, his natural weight is somewhere in the high 220s low 230s.

Frye was listed at 240lb this season by Arizona and ESPN.com. He weighed in at Chicago last Friday at 242lb. So my guess is he didn't gain anywhere near as much weight as people are saying. Is it possible when people say he gained 10lbs of muscle they're talking about turning some body fat into muscle? I'm asking, I don't know. I think Frye's weight gain and loss has been overrated and I think the player the Knicks see next season will look a lot like the Frye who was playing in the tournament. I do think the Knicks have good trainers who can work on a players core strength rather easily.

As for Bynum, the kid weighed 325 easy in March (McDonald's game), and now weighs 275-280. that doesn't sound healthy, and honestly it doesn't sound permanent. Maybe it is, maybe the weight comes back this summer. Maybe he took weight loss supplements like Eddy Curry that will lead to a heart problem. I don't know, and I'm not trying to imply that I do, but to me it's another question mark on an already questionable prospect. Yes, he has tremendous upside, but where he's at right now, turning down Uconn to be, what, the 16-19th pick or so, coming off knee injury, coming off massive weight loss, never played organized bball at a high level, low skill level from what I've read (no jumper, limited post moves), isn't working out with people who will ever be drafted (E. Williams went back to school).

I mean, I get the sense he's going back to school. I hope he does. I hope he turns into a top 3 pick in school. I don't think he makes any sense in NYC at 17, where he'd either rot on the bench Darko-style or get embarassed on the court.


LOL, you don't make it to the MCD game and you dont score a combined 22 points 10 rebounds 2 blocks in 28 minutes at Jordan and MCD, and then have North Carolina and uconn battle over you because you dont know how to play basketball. I think JC is disturbed with Bynum's brother, the way he has done things. He had a commitment from Bynum and his word, and he backed out because of his brother prompting him to go pro. A lot of people believe he will be a HIGh lottery pick, between 1-3 in 2 years. he's actually quite skilled, but anyone understands that it will take a 17 year old kid time. the difference maker is that Bynum has the rare combination of strength and height with skill and mobility. If we were headed for the title next year and they did what they could to maybe get a Granger cool. But we arent. We need to slowly ramp up for the next 2-3 years. I hate to say the name but he is eerily similar to Brian Cook.
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rain
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6/15/2005  12:52 AM
Frye is 22 years old. Its entirely possible he'll be 250-260 when he's 26. He's got the frame. He's been putting on Muscle since his freshman year. Your reaching with your steroid theory.. its ridiculous. On an NBA weights/ regimen he should be able to keep his weight up. He's been putting on weight consistently, he's muscular, his dedicaton should be lauded.. just as you laud Bynum for dropping the weight. Will Bynum put that weight on and be the softy he was before? Its the same argument.. its all speculation.

If your arguing the soft label.. then fine, there's data to back that up.. game tape. A double standard otherwise. Personally I'm more concerned about his passivity.
nyk4ever
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6/15/2005  12:55 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by BRIGGS:

[
Come on, a 17 year old kid who put on weight partly due to an injury and takes off 20-30 pounds in 3 months on a strict diet and plenty of working out is much more reasonable than a 22 year old who puts On 15 pounds of muscle in 6 weeks. Just think about it. There is only 1 way to add that kind of weight in such a short period of time and it isnt legal. Im not talking fat, im talking muscle. the differnce is Andrew can monitor what he eats like every other human, but Channing will have trouble retaining such rapid muscle gain--if what they say is true, that he did indeed gain 15. there was some BS with Chad Ford saying he weighed 260, but if you read enough AZ papers, his natural weight is somewhere in the high 220s low 230s.

Frye was listed at 240lb this season by Arizona and ESPN.com. He weighed in at Chicago last Friday at 242lb. So my guess is he didn't gain anywhere near as much weight as people are saying. Is it possible when people say he gained 10lbs of muscle they're talking about turning some body fat into muscle? I'm asking, I don't know. I think Frye's weight gain and loss has been overrated and I think the player the Knicks see next season will look a lot like the Frye who was playing in the tournament. I do think the Knicks have good trainers who can work on a players core strength rather easily.

As for Bynum, the kid weighed 325 easy in March (McDonald's game), and now weighs 275-280. that doesn't sound healthy, and honestly it doesn't sound permanent. Maybe it is, maybe the weight comes back this summer. Maybe he took weight loss supplements like Eddy Curry that will lead to a heart problem. I don't know, and I'm not trying to imply that I do, but to me it's another question mark on an already questionable prospect. Yes, he has tremendous upside, but where he's at right now, turning down Uconn to be, what, the 16-19th pick or so, coming off knee injury, coming off massive weight loss, never played organized bball at a high level, low skill level from what I've read (no jumper, limited post moves), isn't working out with people who will ever be drafted (E. Williams went back to school).

I mean, I get the sense he's going back to school. I hope he does. I hope he turns into a top 3 pick in school. I don't think he makes any sense in NYC at 17, where he'd either rot on the bench Darko-style or get embarassed on the court.


LOL, you don't make it to the MCD game and you dont score a combined 22 points 10 rebounds 2 blocks in 28 minutes at Jordan and MCD, and then have North Carolina and uconn battle over you because you dont know how to play basketball. I think JC is disturbed with Bynum's brother, the way he has done things. He had a commitment from Bynum and his word, and he backed out because of his brother prompting him to go pro. A lot of people believe he will be a HIGh lottery pick, between 1-3 in 2 years. he's actually quite skilled, but anyone understands that it will take a 17 year old kid time. the difference maker is that Bynum has the rare combination of strength and height with skill and mobility. If we were headed for the title next year and they did what they could to maybe get a Granger cool. But we arent. We need to slowly ramp up for the next 2-3 years. I hate to say the name but he is eerily similar to Brian Cook.

Great post Briggs. There shouldn't be any doubt about Bynum's potential, its as high or higher then anyone in this draft and it's for good reason. When your a 7'1 285 pound beast at age 17 and have shown that there are skills, albeit raw, but still solid skills then scouts are going to drool over you. I dont blame Calhoun for wanting Bynum back, why the heck wouldn't he, he's going to make UConn the undeniable favorite for 2 years with Rudy Gay and Josh Boone. My first choice at 8 is Green, my second is Bynum and my third is Granger. Are the Knicks going to get any of them? I think the best chance is for Bynum as long as he stays in the dradft but if Isiah passes up on Bynum for Channing Frye then I will be an extremely pissed off Knicks fan because Frye will NEVER and I mean NEVER be anything more then a 14/8 player in this league and thats IF he becomes a starter somewhere.

Frye is the "safe" pick in most people's estimation but he's anything but safe to me, his bodytype, his offensive skills and his sometime showing up and sometime disappearing demeanor make him extremely risky to me. Give me Danny Granger or Byum ANY DAY over Frye.
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