I've been saying all along, go big with 8, 30 and 54. Dido's been there with me (and we know he's connected to "the stars"). I've been paying attention ot the dissenters, and - I ain't convinced. I get all the arguments about Jordan v. Bowie, the hidden gems of Kobe, Pierce, TMac, etc., and here's what I've come up with - I ain't convinced you''re talking about that when you bring up Webster, Green, Granger, etc., etc., etc.

We are a real short-ass puny f'g team!!! We have outstanding potential around the horn in Marbs, Reezy, Craw, Sweets. We need bigs. Period.

I want the following the F off our team as soon as possible: TT, Penny.

I'd be happy to see the following traded as soon as we can get decent deals for them: JYD, Malik, KT, Mo.

I'd love to see Jackie Blue be given a chance to show what he's got.

But in the draft: go big! I trust Isiah and staff to sort out the priorities among Bynum, Frey, Andreezy, Petro, Vasquez, Taft, et al., but I want 3 bigs and then fill in our other roster needs by other means.

Posted by Marv:

But in the draft: go big!

I would rather go big in the draft too. Isiah's whole deal is longer and more athletic so I am guessing he will go for someone big too. I doubt they will be some big thick mofo's.

but franchise bigman go in the top 3 or 5 very rarely do they slip past 5. Amare is an exception. If we wanted a star bigman like a Bogut, Marvin we needed to win 20games not 30+ At 8 we need the best player available or we'll be sorry.

Bynum doesn't have to be the best player but if Isiah feels he can give us 18 & 10 someday he'll take him because he's a 7-1 280 Center.

If not we need to take the best player available luckily there are some really good wing ones! So which ever way we go at least it would make this horrific 30win season worth it! Now take another Sweetney, Collison, diop and we're screwed. They'll fit right in with the rest of the mediocrity on this team


[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06/12/2005 18:22:48]

Then you should stop winning meaningless games if you're serious about rebuilding!

We are not getting a superstar bigman at 8. Not in this draft! Maybe Bynum but thats it. There's no Amare here but there are a ton of allstar calibur wing players.

are we following the reports from the workouts?! no one if raving about any of these Big PF's and C's the way they are raving about Granger, Wright, Graham etc. The reports on Frye are ok but no where near as good!

Posted by tapseer:

If you're serious about building this team, you start with the frontline. Like I said before, you can always find that hot wing man in the any draft. The question is, when will be the next time for the Knicks to draft a Bynum, Frye, Vasquez or even Petro? You don't get chances like that often. That's why I feel IT must take the opportunity now. We can't forever be small sayiing next year we'll draft one. I don't want any of the FA's because then you will be OVERPAYING for a marginal player who is easily surpassed in talent by the bigs in the draft now. GO BIG!

There are not any great big men that should go in the first 15 picks of this draft besides Bogut. Vasquez, Petro, and Frye are not players you can build around, they are nice players for a good team who made the playoffs to take and hope they turn into something, not the Knicks who are mightly stuggling and need all the help they can get anywhere on the court. This is why the Knicks MUST take the best player available, I personally would like to see Danny Granger, Andrew Bynum(whose size seperates him from the other "bigs" you mentioned) or Martell Webster in a Knicks uniform with the #8 pick, obviously Gerald Greene as well if he's available, which he wont be. Going big would be a great option for the Knicks, if there were players worth taking at #8 but the only one I see worth it is Bynum and he's a really iffy option already. Vasquez, Petro, Frye. No chance in hell.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06/12/2005 19:03:13]

Posted by Masterplan:

Posted by tapseer:

If you're serious about building this team, you start with the frontline. Like I said before, you can always find that hot wing man in the any draft. The question is, when will be the next time for the Knicks to draft a Bynum, Frye, Vasquez or even Petro? You don't get chances like that often. That's why I feel IT must take the opportunity now. We can't forever be small sayiing next year we'll draft one. I don't want any of the FA's because then you will be OVERPAYING for a marginal player who is easily surpassed in talent by the bigs in the draft now. GO BIG!

you get chances to draft 7 footers every draft too. are these guys that much more special than the bigs available every year? IT has said this draft was deepest at PG and forward, not center. the most important part is picking guys who can play regardless of height. if the bigs available are not worth the pick, let someone else be stuck with them.

saying we should draft big cuts a good 2/3 of the talent pool of the draft out of our consideration. in what way shape or form is that a good idea?

when he said that back in March he had no clue what he was talking about. This draft is stacked with really good SG/SFs who will be available to us at 8.

PG:
Paul
Felton
Deron
Jack
Nate

SG/SFs:
Green
Wright
Granger
Webster
Graham
Fernandez
Warrick
Rush
Hodge
McCants
Winston


We can get the same bigman at 30 that we'll be getting at 8.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06/12/2005 19:10:03]

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by tapseer:

If you're serious about building this team, you start with the frontline. Like I said before, you can always find that hot wing man in the any draft. The question is, when will be the next time for the Knicks to draft a Bynum, Frye, Vasquez or even Petro? You don't get chances like that often. That's why I feel IT must take the opportunity now. We can't forever be small sayiing next year we'll draft one. I don't want any of the FA's because then you will be OVERPAYING for a marginal player who is easily surpassed in talent by the bigs in the draft now. GO BIG!

There are not any great big men that should go in the first 15 picks of this draft besides Bogut. Vasquez, Petro, and Frye are not players you can build around, they are nice players for a good team who made the playoffs to take and hope they turn into something, not the Knicks who are mightly stuggling and need all the help they can get anywhere on the court. This is why the Knicks MUST take the best player available, I personally would like to see Danny Granger, Andrew Bynum(whose size seperates him from the other "bigs" you mentioned) or Martell Webster in a Knicks uniform with the #8 pick, obviously Gerald Greene as well if he's available, which he wont be. Going big would be a great option for the Knicks, if there were players worth taking at #8 but the only one I see worth it is Bynum and he's a really iffy option already. Vasquez, Petro, Frye. No chance in hell.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06/12/2005 19:03:13]

thank you for making such a brilliant post

By the way, they way some of you guys are talking you wouldn't have drafted Amare either. You all would follow in Laydens footsteps. don't get caught up in all the hype. Also about Petro, Vasquez and Splitter, you're not building around them...you already have a pretty good cast of players. Marbury, Craw, Ariza and Sweets are good players. You're adding to the mix. The Knicks were awful because they didn't have a clue about team defense and you're unathletic on the frontline. Period. Get a coach that can get a defensive philosophy going and we'll be alright.

Look back at the last 5 years of the draft. Here is the list of every player 6'10 and over drafted in the top10.

2004
Dwight Howard (pick 1)
Emeka Okafor (pick 2)
Rafel Arrugjo (pick 8)
2003
Darko (pick 2)
Chris Bosh (pick 4)
Chris Kaman (pick 6)
Sweetney (pick 9)
2002
Yao (pick 1)
Drew Gooden (pick 4)
Nickoloz Tskitishvili (pick 5)
Nene (pick 7)
Chris Wilcox (pick 8)
Amara Stoudamire (pick 9)
2001
Kwame Brown (pick 1)
Tyson Chandler (pick 2)
Pau Gasol (pick 3)
Eddy Curry (pick 4)
Segana Diop (pick 8)
2000
Chris Mihm (pick 7)
Joel Pryzbilla (pick 9)

If you look at that list, you see that anyone who wasn't picked in the top 4 picks(aside from Amare) as not being great players. There are some guys that are servicable but do not cut it to be starters in this leauge and there are others that are absolute busts Mihm, Pryzbilla(not worth #9) Diop, Chandler hasn't performed as a #2 Chris Wilcox, Tskitzhilvi is a absoultle bust, Drew Gooden, Chris Kaman. My point is the total opposite of yours, there are servicable 7 footers in every draft and they shouldn't be drafted in the top10 just because they are tall. Vasquez, Petro, Frye are all going to be servicable players but NOT the answer at Center of PF. When that is the case, you draft the best player available and you keep doing that until your team is good enough to be a "service center/power forward away from being a true team in contention. There is absolutely no reason to pass up Granger, Wright, Webster becuase the Knicks need a player taller then 6'10 and Vasquez and Petro fit the bill. Randolph Morris is as good or a better option and he's projected to go at 30, why not take him there and get the best wing player available?

When teams make the mistake of drafting size over talent, they live with it for 10 years after the fact becuase it pushes them back. I for one don't want the Knicks to make that mistake. Draft a big when theres one thats good enough to be drafted at #8.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06/12/2005 19:30:52]

Posted by gunsnewing:

damn! so glad you took the time to write that up! I was going to do something similar but got lazy. That proves the point I've been making all year. When a bigman is good he goes early. Until a bigman starts getting raved about the way Amare did, hopefully Bynum,we can't make the mistake of drafting a sweetney-like serviceable player as high at 8 when we can get one at 30 or through trade or free agency

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06/12/2005 19:42:04]

how is Mike Sweetney serviceable, hes 22! he is on the right development path. Sweetney could be a 17-10 PF