[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Cleveland doesn't have a pick at all...
Author Thread
fishmike
Posts: 53191
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
6/13/2005  10:45 AM
well.. if we get him I root for him to suceed just like I did KVH. I just hope we go in a different direction. I could live with sending them KT straight up.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
AUTOADVERT
Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
6/13/2005  11:12 AM
To me, that's a complete lateral trade. We gain offense, but lose a heck of a lot of defense, and yes, rebounding. KT is a much better rebounder than Z. I really wouldn't wanna do that either. I say just stay away from the guy.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
6/13/2005  4:01 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

To me, that's a complete lateral trade. We gain offense, but lose a heck of a lot of defense, and yes, rebounding. KT is a much better rebounder than Z. I really wouldn't wanna do that either. I say just stay away from the guy.
We lose defense by replacing Kurt with Big Z? I think we gain defense. They both have slow feet. I don't think any PF or C has slower feet than Kurt, but we'll just call lateral foot speed a tie. (Maybe it's a slight edge to Kurt if you want to be generous.) But Big Z can actually use his size and muscle. He's not gonna give up 60% FG shooting to Cs like Kurt does. He'll also add a lot of blocked shots and alter a ton of shots. If you replace Kurt with Big Z at C, I think you gain a lot on defense, gain a lot on offense, but do lose some rebounding like you said.
Killa4luv
Posts: 27768
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
6/13/2005  4:15 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:

To me, that's a complete lateral trade. We gain offense, but lose a heck of a lot of defense, and yes, rebounding. KT is a much better rebounder than Z. I really wouldn't wanna do that either. I say just stay away from the guy.
We lose defense by replacing Kurt with Big Z? I think we gain defense. They both have slow feet. I don't think any PF or C has slower feet than Kurt, but we'll just call lateral foot speed a tie. (Maybe it's a slight edge to Kurt if you want to be generous.) But Big Z can actually use his size and muscle. He's not gonna give up 60% FG shooting to Cs like Kurt does. He'll also add a lot of blocked shots and alter a ton of shots. If you replace Kurt with Big Z at C, I think you gain a lot on defense, gain a lot on offense, but do lose some rebounding like you said.
And that is worthwhile tradeoff considering we have JYD, Sweets, Malik to compensate on the glass. This really is a no brainer though.


Fish-
You are right in the sense that he isn't gonna make us contenders. However, there is no one player except Shaq, TD, and KG that make us contenders. Also the logic you are using could be used to justify not acquiring any players at all. I thought we were supposed to be acquiring players to make our team better and make us contenders. Are we only supposed to do that in a scripted order? Or do we add the pieces as they become available. If we get Big Z and draft Joey Graham, would you say we are putting together a team that is significant;y better than what we currently have? Youd have to admit we would be a better team with a better balance of talent. The right coach could take that team deep into the playoffs. Depending on how the yougsters develop, and who we pick with #54 and next years pick, we could be championship bound.
Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
6/13/2005  4:23 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:

To me, that's a complete lateral trade. We gain offense, but lose a heck of a lot of defense, and yes, rebounding. KT is a much better rebounder than Z. I really wouldn't wanna do that either. I say just stay away from the guy.
We lose defense by replacing Kurt with Big Z? I think we gain defense. They both have slow feet. I don't think any PF or C has slower feet than Kurt, but we'll just call lateral foot speed a tie. (Maybe it's a slight edge to Kurt if you want to be generous.) But Big Z can actually use his size and muscle. He's not gonna give up 60% FG shooting to Cs like Kurt does. He'll also add a lot of blocked shots and alter a ton of shots. If you replace Kurt with Big Z at C, I think you gain a lot on defense, gain a lot on offense, but do lose some rebounding like you said.

You believe what you want to believe Bonn. Kurt is a little overrated as a defender. I've always said that, but he's still much better than Big Z in that category, which kinda says something about Big Z. And I've always felt that KT is a much smarter player as well. You see Z screwing up all the time, even LeBron yells at him a lot.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
fishmike
Posts: 53191
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
6/13/2005  4:26 PM
what will make us contenders is not one player but a plan and a process. Thats using the draft, getting younger, getting flexible and sticking to a 2-3 year plan starting NOW.

We have enough veterans. Lets add good young guys that can ball and play their asses off.

A bunch more guys like Ariza. Steven Hunter plays like Ariza. Granger does. Warrick does. Nate Robinson does. McCants does.

This is the problem with the Knicks management and the Knick fans. They think since we cant get Garnett or Duncan we should get the next best guy, regardless of cost or flexibility. Thats why Glen Rice became a Knick.

We have enough good players. Lets go in a different direction. For once. That way isnt working... lets try something different, something a lot of teams have used to become good teams.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Killa4luv
Posts: 27768
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
6/13/2005  4:34 PM
That team you are talking about assembling is like the Phoenix matches, because that would be how well we could be compared to the phoenix suns.

Big Z coould be a huge part of a 2-3 year plan and there is no logical reason to think he couldnt be. He could be the oldest player among youngsters.
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
6/13/2005  4:42 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Big Z coould be a huge part of a 2-3 year plan and there is no logical reason to think he couldnt be. He could be the oldest player among youngsters.
exactly; just because you get one 30 yr old C in his prime doesn't mean you stop getting young players too. If pick #30 is included to get Big Z, you still have a lottery pick (and # 53) plus 2 1st rd picks next year, the MLE, and several expiring contracts to use to get young players. You could probably even trade Big Z for a better young player from a team trying to win right now than you could trade Penny or pick #30. I could see the Mavs giving up a lot to get him. (I wouldn't be getting him just to trade him, though.)

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 06/13/2005 16:43:01]
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
6/13/2005  4:55 PM
Posted by fishmike:

5 years $65mm. Thats worth it to you? Man... we just differ on our opinion of Big Z. If we had great wing players, had a real PF in place and say won 45 something games last year than OK... this might be the guy that gets us to the next level.

We arent there. Big Z might be the guy that gets us to .500

So why invest in him when thats what we are shooting for?

I think your right... we will get him and he does want to be here. Isiah will throw himself a parade because he got an all star center under market value and we will win 42 games next year.

maybe he alone would only get us to .500 but the plan is to draft well. draft a star SG/SF like Granger/Wright and a rugged PF or Bynum whatever. Sign Jay Williams or Kwame. I think thats a good plan right? I don't like a plan that consists of this halfway crap. If we want cheaper young stars then we need to trade Marbury and win 20 games and win the lottery. Not keep signing serviceable guys like hunter, Gadz, Chris Anderson etc. We're not getting past the 1 or 2nd RD with thos guys in the frontcourt
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
6/13/2005  4:57 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:

To me, that's a complete lateral trade. We gain offense, but lose a heck of a lot of defense, and yes, rebounding. KT is a much better rebounder than Z. I really wouldn't wanna do that either. I say just stay away from the guy.
We lose defense by replacing Kurt with Big Z? I think we gain defense. They both have slow feet. I don't think any PF or C has slower feet than Kurt, but we'll just call lateral foot speed a tie. (Maybe it's a slight edge to Kurt if you want to be generous.) But Big Z can actually use his size and muscle. He's not gonna give up 60% FG shooting to Cs like Kurt does. He'll also add a lot of blocked shots and alter a ton of shots. If you replace Kurt with Big Z at C, I think you gain a lot on defense, gain a lot on offense, but do lose some rebounding like you said.

You believe what you want to believe Bonn.
Thanks; I'd like to take the time to give you permission to believe what you want to believe as well. It's important that everyone know that we've each given each other this permission.
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
6/13/2005  4:59 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:

To me, that's a complete lateral trade. We gain offense, but lose a heck of a lot of defense, and yes, rebounding. KT is a much better rebounder than Z. I really wouldn't wanna do that either. I say just stay away from the guy.
We lose defense by replacing Kurt with Big Z? I think we gain defense. They both have slow feet. I don't think any PF or C has slower feet than Kurt, but we'll just call lateral foot speed a tie. (Maybe it's a slight edge to Kurt if you want to be generous.) But Big Z can actually use his size and muscle. He's not gonna give up 60% FG shooting to Cs like Kurt does. He'll also add a lot of blocked shots and alter a ton of shots. If you replace Kurt with Big Z at C, I think you gain a lot on defense, gain a lot on offense, but do lose some rebounding like you said.
And that is worthwhile tradeoff considering we have JYD, Sweets, Malik to compensate on the glass. This really is a no brainer though.


Fish-
You are right in the sense that he isn't gonna make us contenders. However, there is no one player except Shaq, TD, and KG that make us contenders. Also the logic you are using could be used to justify not acquiring any players at all. I thought we were supposed to be acquiring players to make our team better and make us contenders. Are we only supposed to do that in a scripted order? Or do we add the pieces as they become available. If we get Big Z and draft Joey Graham, would you say we are putting together a team that is significant;y better than what we currently have? Youd have to admit we would be a better team with a better balance of talent. The right coach could take that team deep into the playoffs. Depending on how the yougsters develop, and who we pick with #54 and next years pick, we could be championship bound.

hah! you basically said the samething I did Killa! great minds think alike!
Cleveland doesn't have a pick at all...

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy