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Getting back in touch with reality.
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Killa4luv
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6/8/2005  9:03 PM
Guys here on this board are not dealing with reality, when:

1. They post threads about blowing up the team, and/or trading Marbury, which usually mean the same thing in folks' trade scenarios.

2. When they fantasize about us drafting Bynum, Blatche or making a move to draft both.

Isiah is not trading Marb's unless it is apart of a trade where we get better now. I think we can all agree, thats not going to happen, Zeke wanted him, has him, and wont relinquish him easily. AND I don't think we will get a trade where teams will give us equal value, his stock is not at its highest right now. Its highly unlikely, especially in the scenarios being proposed.

Bynum will not be drafted unless he shows something really special in workouts, which has not been the case thus far. Isiah is in a mode of getting a team ready to win big in the near future, meaning asap! Unless Bynum can show that he can help us win now, or is a clear franchise player in the making, he simply will not be drafted. Many here are convinced that he is the next coming of Shaq, but unless Zeke is convinced of that, I don't see him picking him.

It is apparent that Zeke looks at the knicks as a team that has a window of oppurtunity to get better while its best player (Steph) is still in his prime. That means about 4-5 years, and that means making moves to get better and become a contender within that time frame. I am not a mind reader, but it seems apparent, based on his moves, that this is his view.

Which is why Steph, Craw, Ariza, are who he is most likely to keep and build around. These are players he drafted or made moves to acquire. Our drafting is going to be around making our team better now, and maybe filling a need.

Lets all get in touch with reality. If you want Bynum on the Knicks, you better hope he really impresses in his workout with the knicks.
AUTOADVERT
Vmart
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6/8/2005  9:07 PM
So far Isiah has yet to make one trade that really helps the Knicks. We can all pretend about how the Knicks are exciting and what not but when its all said and done he has created a team that would lose to Layden's team. As far as I am concerned this is his make or break season.
MaTT4281
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6/8/2005  9:14 PM
Comeon man, it's the offseason. If people want to make messed up trades, now is the time to do it. If you want to get technical, no trades posted or draft plans aren't reality since they just haven't happened yet. Logic right now doesn't have much to do with it. Before the deadline, I never would have thought that things like Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis for Baron Davis would have happened. Bottom line is they do. This is the Knick offseason, you'll be better off escaping reality for a few months.
Knick2001
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6/8/2005  9:17 PM
1. They post threads about blowing up the team, and/or trading Marbury, which usually mean the same thing in folks' trade scenarios.

2. When they fantasize about us drafting Bynum, Blatche or making a move to draft both.

Isiah is not trading Marb's unless it is apart of a trade where we get better now. I think we can all agree, thats not going to happen, Zeke wanted him, has him, and wont relinquish him easily. AND I don't think we will get a trade where teams will give us equal value, his stock is not at its highest right now. Its highly unlikely, especially in the scenarios being proposed

How about a Fantasy Trade sticky for all these trade Marbury posts and buy another first round pick posts.
Killa4luv
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6/8/2005  9:23 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:

Logic right now doesn't have much to do with it. Before the deadline, I never would have thought that things like Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis for Baron Davis would have happened. Bottom line is they do. This is the Knick offseason, you'll be better off escaping reality for a few months.
If your gonna make an argument, make a good one. You just did.

I'm just saying if we are gonna rack out brains lets try to stay within some realm of reality.

The BD trade was a trade for cap space and BD is damaged goods he has a back problem that isnt covered under insurance, so it actually does make some sense. But I get your over all point.
djsunyc
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6/8/2005  9:24 PM
It is apparent that Zeke looks at the knicks as a team that has a window of oppurtunity to get better while its best player (Steph) is still in his prime. That means about 4-5 years, and that means making moves to get better and become a contender within that time frame. I am not a mind reader, but it seems apparent, based on his moves, that this is his view.

what exactly are those moves that he made to put us on a path to contender within the next 2-3 years?
Solace
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6/8/2005  9:26 PM
You're probably right about Marbury not getting traded, but I'll tell you why people come up with Marbury trades. It's because we've built a team entirely built around Marbury, Crawford and a bunch of scrubs. With the team makeup as it is right now, we're not going to win. We're way too undersized and undertalented. So, the Marbury trade offers stem from allieviating the undersized problem and trying to spread the talent.

That being said, let's assume we're keeping Marbury. Then, Crawford is, at best, a sixth man, because he has too many problems at starting shooting guard. Then, the other piece you can assume is Ariza, and maybe Sweetney. The next goal is getting complimentary pieces.

The complimentary piece to Marbury would be a backup PG who is defensive minded and taller (6'3"+) and could get 8-10 minutes a night off the bench.

The complimentary piece to Crawford is a tall starting shooting guard. Drafting someone like Green would fit this piece.

The complimentary piece to Ariza is a tall (6'8"+) offensive minded small forward, who could evenly (50/50) split the minutes with Ariza. Someone like Shane Battier would work here.

The complimentary piece to Sweetney (or Mo Taylor, if you'd prefer to keep him) is a taller PF with defensive prowess to play anywhere from 20-35 mpg. You'd want someone athletic to fit this spot. Someone like Marcus Camby would be ideal.

Finally, we have no centers, period. We need to get two young centers. A young 7' project (Bynum, for example) and a young center (6'11"+) who could be servicable in either a starting or backup role. Someone like Scot Pollard comes to mind.

That would be a formula for a winning team. The problem is we don't have enough draft picks in the next two years to fill all of these needs. If a team is willing to give us the missing pieces via trade, great, but this is what we need if we want to have a successful team with Marbury.

Now, mind you, the players I named were merely used as examples, and by no means do I think we have any shot of getting Camby, Bynum and Green, while keeping all of our youth, as well.

Do you guys agree with the formula? If you trade Marbury, you get a different formula, obviously.

As for Bynum, who knows? I'm confident that if Bynum is good enough, he's impress enough to, at least get consideration.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
gunsnewing
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6/8/2005  9:26 PM
Posted by Vmart:

So far Isiah has yet to make one trade that really helps the Knicks. We can all pretend about how the Knicks are exciting and what not but when its all said and done he has created a team that would lose to Layden's team. As far as I am concerned this is his make or break season.

sad but true
Solace
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6/8/2005  9:27 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Vmart:

So far Isiah has yet to make one trade that really helps the Knicks. We can all pretend about how the Knicks are exciting and what not but when its all said and done he has created a team that would lose to Layden's team. As far as I am concerned this is his make or break season.

sad but true

I have to agree with that, as well.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bonn1997
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6/8/2005  9:54 PM
So far Isiah has yet to make one trade that really helps the Knicks. We can all pretend about how the Knicks are exciting and what not but when its all said and done he has created a team that would lose to Layden's team. As far as I am concerned this is his make or break season.
The Marbury trade improved the team a lot last year. (Just look at the pre-Marbury record and the record with him.) Obviously it did not extend to this year, though, which is disappointing to all of us. I don't think the team would lose to Layden's; Isiah has a higher winning percentage over 1.5 yrs than Layden had over the last 1.5 years. But I don't like the idea of comparing the team to Layden anyway; I'd rather just forget about Layden.

That being said, let's assume we're keeping Marbury. Then, Crawford is, at best, a sixth man, because he has too many problems at starting shooting guard.
I agree but I think there are even more problems with him starting at PG because he's our team's worst decision maker. He's only about three-quarters of an inch below average for SG and he added 8 pounds of muscle last year. If he adds more weight, I think his weaknesses would be less severe at SG than at PG. Right now, having him start at *either* backcourt position hurts the team, though.

I agree with the other complimentary pieces you wrote about.

How about a Fantasy Trade sticky for all these trade Marbury posts and buy another first round pick posts.
I was thinking we could have a stickied thread for Briggs to discuss Bynum!





SKY
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6/8/2005  9:56 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Guys here on this board are not dealing with reality, when:

1. They post threads about blowing up the team, and/or trading Marbury, which usually mean the same thing in folks' trade scenarios.

2. When they fantasize about us drafting Bynum, Blatche or making a move to draft both.

Regarding the #2, I think that Isiah could realistically draft Bynum if his work out at the Knicks goes well. I mean it was Isiah who drafted T-Mac, a high-school project with huge upside.
gunsnewing
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6/8/2005  10:05 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Vmart:

So far Isiah has yet to make one trade that really helps the Knicks. We can all pretend about how the Knicks are exciting and what not but when its all said and done he has created a team that would lose to Layden's team. As far as I am concerned this is his make or break season.

sad but true


I have to agree with that, as well.

ariza and butler and picking up 2 1st rounders for Nazr earns him another season

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06/08/2005 22:27:25]
diderotn
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6/8/2005  10:26 PM
I don't believe that this team is build around Marburry, because if it was, we would have a stellar frontline to complement what Marburry can provide...If you were to say that this team is build around Houston, I would agree with you. Isiah's plan is to build the team around Marburry, but he has only gotten two pieces in Crawfford and ARiza that can really complement Marburry's skills. Perhaps through this draft, Isiah will be able to acquire the pieces necessary to bring out Marburry's true value. Stop talking about trading Marburry, because we can't do better if we trade him. It takes time to build a championship, it takes a lot of patience also. Slowly, slowly friends.....

Posted by Solace:

You're probably right about Marbury not getting traded, but I'll tell you why people come up with Marbury trades. It's because we've built a team entirely built around Marbury, Crawford and a bunch of scrubs. With the team makeup as it is right now, we're not going to win. We're way too undersized and undertalented. So, the Marbury trade offers stem from allieviating the undersized problem and trying to spread the talent.


As for Bynum, who knows? I'm confident that if Bynum is good enough, he's impress enough to, at least get consideration.
The true Knickabocker..........
gunsnewing
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6/8/2005  10:30 PM
Posted by diderotn:

I don't believe that this team is build around Marburry, because if it was, we would have a stellar frontline to complement what Marburry can provide...If you were to say that this team is build around Houston, I would agree with you. Isiah's plan is to build the team around Marburry, but he has only gotten two pieces in Crawfford and ARiza that can really complement Marburry's skills. Perhaps through this draft, Isiah will be able to acquire the pieces necessary to bring out Marburry's true value. Stop talking about trading Marburry, because we can't do better if we trade him. It takes time to build a championship, it takes a lot of patience also. Slowly, slowly friends.....

Posted by Solace:

You're probably right about Marbury not getting traded, but I'll tell you why people come up with Marbury trades. It's because we've built a team entirely built around Marbury, Crawford and a bunch of scrubs. With the team makeup as it is right now, we're not going to win. We're way too undersized and undertalented. So, the Marbury trade offers stem from allieviating the undersized problem and trying to spread the talent.


As for Bynum, who knows? I'm confident that if Bynum is good enough, he's impress enough to, at least get consideration.

if we had a stellar frontline then the team would be built around the stellar frontline not Marbury
diderotn
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6/8/2005  10:32 PM
DUDE! are you kidding??? Marburry needs a real PF or Center to win ball games.....
The true Knickabocker..........
gunsnewing
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6/8/2005  10:40 PM
Posted by diderotn:

DUDE! are you kidding??? Marburry needs a real PF or Center to win ball games.....

which goes to show why we shouldn't be building around a 6-3 PG/SG who plays no defense like Marbury!
Solace
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6/8/2005  10:59 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by diderotn:

DUDE! are you kidding??? Marburry needs a real PF or Center to win ball games.....

which goes to show why we shouldn't be building around a 6-3 PG/SG who plays no defense like Marbury!

Right. If we had two stud frontcourt players then we're talking about a different team. Right now, though, win, lose or draw, we're built around Marbury.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bonn1997
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6/8/2005  11:20 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by diderotn:

DUDE! are you kidding??? Marburry needs a real PF or Center to win ball games.....

which goes to show why we shouldn't be building around a 6-3 PG/SG who plays no defense like Marbury!

Right. If we had two stud frontcourt players then we're talking about a different team. Right now, though, win, lose or draw, we're built around Marbury.
I'd agree with both you and Diderton. I'd word as "we're in the early stages of building around Marbury"
Killa4luv
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6/8/2005  11:42 PM
If we had the same exact roster plus a serviceable defensive/rebounding big at pf or C, AND a shooter, we'd be a good team. We are not miles away, from being good, we are two good role players away. All we need is a shooter at the 2 or 3, and a big shotblocking rebounder at the 5 and we'd be a good team.
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