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diderotn
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6/3/2005  9:59 AM
How tall is this cat....From the pictures that I have seen, he looks like he is a ready big man. He can score, rebound, and block shots.


Disregard, he is only 6'8""""

We need 6'10" or better.

[Edited by - diderotn on 06/03/2005 10:04:11]
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gunsnewing
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6/3/2005  10:08 AM
6-8/6-9 lol

in college Sweetney averaged 22.8pts, 10.4rebs, 3.2blks

I think at best he'll be a solid pro like Sweetney. I don't think he will be significantly better than all our PFs. If we're drafting a PF he needs to be significantly better but if he looks great and Isiah thinks he's gonna be a star go right ahead!
crzymdups
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6/3/2005  10:25 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

6-8/6-9 lol

in college Sweetney averaged 22.8pts, 10.4rebs, 3.2blks

I think at best he'll be a solid pro like Sweetney. I don't think he will be significantly better than all our PFs. If we're drafting a PF he needs to be significantly better but if he looks great and Isiah thinks he's gonna be a star go right ahead!

Simien has one thing over Sweetney: athleticism. The guy can jump. Not out of the gym like Amare, but he can get up there more than most power forwards. Sweetney is floor bound by his giant arse. I would be interested in Simien if he fell to 30, but that won't happen. Watch New Jersey grab him.
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diderotn
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6/3/2005  10:27 AM
I would trade Sweetney just to draft a more athletic player with shot blocking abilities...
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TMS
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6/3/2005  10:46 AM
enough w/this 6'10" only or better nonsense...if the guy can play, he can play...i'd take a 6'7" Ben Wallace over 90% of the 7 footers in the NBA today.
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gunsnewing
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6/3/2005  10:51 AM
problem is Ben Wallace and Elton Brand are the only ones. is Simien going to be as good as those guys to be worth drafting yet another PF who isn't even lottery projected, making it 7 total PFs on our team?
fishmike
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6/3/2005  10:58 AM
seriously... stick out your pinky. Your going to let that much height dictate the direction of your franchise? Thats retarded.
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BRIGGS
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6/3/2005  11:03 AM
I think that Simien is superior to any of our 4s, go back and check my posts before this season started. Problem is we allocated tens of millions of dollars on long term contract to that position. was it wrong yes! what can you say, even if Wayne is a better prospect that our starters abd subs who make 5-10mm, i dont see us drafting a 4 unlesss the guy could play 5 as well. I understand 100% BPA, but there also has to be some rationale to, we can have a roster of all 4s.
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TMS
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6/3/2005  11:04 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

problem is Ben Wallace and Elton Brand are the only ones. is Simien going to be as good as those guys to be worth drafting yet another PF who isn't even lottery projected, making it 7 total PFs on our team?

every NBA GM who passed on Ben Wallace in the draft are kicking themselves in the ass right now...a non drafted rookie is now the most dominant defensive bigman in the game...will Simien become another Ben Wallace? who knows...i don't, & neither do you...i say if he shows that he's got the desire to work hard & he has the athletic ability & strength to play in the NBA, he's worth a serious look...just because he's not 6'10" doesn't mean much to me...i've seen enough 7 foot scrubs in the NBA to last a lifetime.

[Edited by - TMS on 06/03/2005 11:04:46]
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fishmike
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6/3/2005  11:06 AM
they arent the only ones.... look at our own history. Oakley, Mason, Xman, LJ... only Oak was 6'9, he rest were 6'8 or shorter. Antonio Davis, Wallce, Brand, Webber, Zach, McDyess, Jamison, Haslem, Okafor, Al Harrington, Stro Swift, Boozer, Marion, Brian Grant (pre injury).. the league is loaded with frontcourt guys 6'9 or under. Would I rather have Duncan or KG of course, and size is worth gambling on, but simply not picking a guy because he's 2 inches shorter than you want doesnt make sense. Would you rather have PJ Brown or any of the guys I listed above?
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gunsnewing
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6/3/2005  11:06 AM
would Simien be the best player at 8 over bynum, wright, webster, granger? If he is then great but I don't think so add that to the fact that we can use a really good SG over another PF...I don't see Isiah drafting a PF unless he can play center like you said..someone like Splitter maybe
TMS
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6/3/2005  11:09 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

would Simien be the best player at 8 over bynum, wright, webster, granger? If he is then great but I don't think so add that to the fact that we can use a really good SG over another PF...I don't see Isiah drafting a PF unless he can play center like you said..someone like Splitter maybe

no one's talking about taking Simien at #8...but if a deal could be struck to get another pick in the late teens & he's available, i would take a serious look at him.
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diderotn
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6/3/2005  11:40 AM
Look here, I am all for drafting a guy who is capable of helping our ball club. However, for Isiah to draft a guy who is less than 6'10", he will have to manufacture a trade that will rid us of one of our current 10 PFs and while at it, he has to get us a pick. I don't even care if the pick is in the second round.
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fishmike
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6/3/2005  11:51 AM
and I'm saying we are so far from competing for a title that it doesnt matter, that we should take the bast player available regardless of position. PG would be the toughest to swallow for me. But if Simien or Diogu are the best players to take at 8 I dont really care. I'm already thinking 2 years ahead when most of the dead weight it gone, and I dont see a PF on our roster I expect here after 2 years, except Sweetney, and he's got his own share of questions marks.
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diderotn
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6/3/2005  11:55 AM
Fish! please be realistic...GMs are judged by what they do today, not tomorrow. In fact most GMs that does things for tomorrow never lived to see the fruit of their products. If Isiah wants to keep his job, he better not draft a player shorter than 6'10"...The media is already on him for bringing in guys like Rose and Mo, what makes you think that they won't go after his head if he was to draft a player the same size or shorter, especially given the fact that this draft is as rich with prospect Centers????

Posted by fishmike:

and I'm saying we are so far from competing for a title that it doesnt matter, that we should take the bast player available regardless of position. PG would be the toughest to swallow for me. But if Simien or Diogu are the best players to take at 8 I dont really care. I'm already thinking 2 years ahead when most of the dead weight it gone, and I dont see a PF on our roster I expect here after 2 years, except Sweetney, and he's got his own share of questions marks.
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crzymdups
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6/3/2005  12:16 PM
Posted by diderotn:

Fish! please be realistic...GMs are judged by what they do today, not tomorrow. In fact most GMs that does things for tomorrow never lived to see the fruit of their products. If Isiah wants to keep his job, he better not draft a player shorter than 6'10"...The media is already on him for bringing in guys like Rose and Mo, what makes you think that they won't go after his head if he was to draft a player the same size or shorter, especially given the fact that this draft is as rich with prospect Centers????

Posted by fishmike:

and I'm saying we are so far from competing for a title that it doesnt matter, that we should take the bast player available regardless of position. PG would be the toughest to swallow for me. But if Simien or Diogu are the best players to take at 8 I dont really care. I'm already thinking 2 years ahead when most of the dead weight it gone, and I dont see a PF on our roster I expect here after 2 years, except Sweetney, and he's got his own share of questions marks.

The fact is this a great draft for power forwards and a so-so draft for centers. Is any center we can draft going to be better than Stephen Hunter or Chris Andersen? Answer: not for three, four, five years. Bynum is the only one who will definitely be better than Andersen or Hunter to me. I don't see PEtro ever being better than Hunter is right now.

So, yeah, to me it makes sense to take a long look at Simien and Taft and worry about shedding some of our crap power forwards through trades.
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diderotn
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6/3/2005  12:20 PM
How can you be so sure about Petro or any of the youngins??? you have never seen them play...For what it's worth, I would much rather mold my own talents than bring in a guy that will cost me a bundle and still don't contribute....You know that big man cost, especially the FAs....If it is through a trade of one of PFs, yeah go for it.
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Allanfan20
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6/3/2005  1:18 PM
This is why I think it's absolutely imperative for us to grab another 1st round pick, preferably in the teens. It's a good thing that we take a risk on a guy like Bynum, but if we can look towards the future and put him next to a guy like Wayne Simien, then who knows. Maybe that turns out to be one of the best frontcourts in the NBA, and you have Mike Sweetney coming off the bench as well. If that's the plan and thinking, then hell yeah, I'm all for it.

However, if you're going to draft Simien, and just let the Mo Ts and Roses and KTs hog all the playing time, b/c you're afraid of rookie mistakes, then what's even the point? These youngin's have to get experience by playing, one way or the other. If you just let them rot on the bench, then they aren't developing, we remain mediocre, and we remain the same old Knicks. So if we're going to do that, we might as well say "F Simien, lets trade him for Dampier"
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gunsnewing
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6/3/2005  1:39 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by diderotn:

Fish! please be realistic...GMs are judged by what they do today, not tomorrow. In fact most GMs that does things for tomorrow never lived to see the fruit of their products. If Isiah wants to keep his job, he better not draft a player shorter than 6'10"...The media is already on him for bringing in guys like Rose and Mo, what makes you think that they won't go after his head if he was to draft a player the same size or shorter, especially given the fact that this draft is as rich with prospect Centers????

Posted by fishmike:

and I'm saying we are so far from competing for a title that it doesnt matter, that we should take the bast player available regardless of position. PG would be the toughest to swallow for me. But if Simien or Diogu are the best players to take at 8 I dont really care. I'm already thinking 2 years ahead when most of the dead weight it gone, and I dont see a PF on our roster I expect here after 2 years, except Sweetney, and he's got his own share of questions marks.

The fact is this a great draft for power forwards and a so-so draft for centers. Is any center we can draft going to be better than Stephen Hunter or Chris Andersen? Answer: not for three, four, five years. Bynum is the only one who will definitely be better than Andersen or Hunter to me. I don't see PEtro ever being better than Hunter is right now.

So, yeah, to me it makes sense to take a long look at Simien and Taft and worry about shedding some of our crap power forwards through trades.

That is exactly how I feel. Some people think every 7ft center in this draft is going to be a star when in reality they will be lucky to be as good as Hunter & Anderson 3yrs down the road! That was my argument all along when I wanted to draft Taft before Isiah became disgusted with him.

Yes Simien's stock could rise as could anyone else's. I just don't see his stock rising that high. To the point where we add a 7th PF to our atrocious roster!

PFs
1.kurt
2.sweetney
3.taylor
4.Rose
5.JYD
6.Butler
7.Simien

C:
1.Sundov!!!!!!!!!!

SF:
1.TT
2.Ariza
3.JYD
4.Penny

SG:
ZERO!!!!(unless you want to include Houston & Penny)

PG:
1.MArbury
2.Crawford
3.Jackson
gunsnewing
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6/3/2005  1:55 PM
Don't get me wrong the most important thing is that we get a frontcourt player, PF or C, for Marbury to flourish with. I just don't think Simien is that guy. Not with with the 8th pick.
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