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H20: The lost knick!
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Nalod
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6/1/2005  12:12 PM


Allan has been shelved so long that I expect a long preseason for him.

He will be tested, cuz if he is gonna retire, he really can't play any (regular season) games if the team gets any relief. Isiah will get ugly on this one. Dolans orders?
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crzymdups
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6/1/2005  12:21 PM
I don't think we'll ever see Houston play here again. I don't think there will be a trade and it will come down to whether Houston wants to sit on the bench in a suit, be forced to retire or accept a buy out. Zeke doesn't usually forgive. Not that he really has anything to be mad about, but there's really no reason to trust Allan.
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Nalod
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6/1/2005  12:26 PM
I don't know the parameters, so perhaps someone can help me here, but I believe a player can sit out for a time and his salary won't count against the cap. If he starts playing again, the clock restarts.

This, Allan will be tested and if he can move and stay moving, he can be rostered. If not, I don't think he gets a shot at it anymore.

We still owe him his money, but at least its not (all?) counting at cap.
Allanfan20
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6/1/2005  12:27 PM
Oh God, and how don't we trust him? B/c he came to camp w/o reporting a broken finger? B/c he claims he struggling to feed his kids? B/c he doesn't show up for any games and is never there for the team? B/c he doesn't play his hardest all the time when he's able to play.

Allan shouldn't be forced to do shyat. He has just 2 more years left on his contract, and even if he doesn't play again, which I'm sure he will, then it will be best to just let his contract burn when his contract his done, b/c we probably aren't gonna be much for the next 2 years.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
diderotn
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6/1/2005  12:36 PM
Nice guy, but I hope not to ever see him again in Knicks uniform. Houston has really hurt this team....financially, spiritually, and emotionally..
The true Knickabocker..........
crzymdups
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6/1/2005  12:51 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Oh God, and how don't we trust him?

How about because he came back too soon and screwed up a balanced team, pissed off Penny, made Jamal's play go downhill and then when all that was "accomplished" had to shut it down for the season, leaving us to start Ariza at SG in January?

Yeah, Allan did a great job last year, he's the ultimate team player and not selfish at all.
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Allanfan20
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6/1/2005  1:21 PM
Pissed off Penny. Sure. As if you care? And how did he do this, BTW?

Jamals play went downhill? Where does that make sense? When Jamal was healthy, he was starting and still playing well and getting playing time. I guess it was Allan's fault he got turf toe, and I guess it's also Allan's fault that he's getting close to the end of his career and his body is starting to break down, no matter how much he tries to get back to being NBA ready.

Came back too soon? Well, considering he recieved extreme extreme pressure from Isiah and Dolan to do so (Just like McDyess) and wasn't feeling any pain at the time, I guess he was a jerk for coming back.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Killa4luv
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6/1/2005  1:27 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Allanfan20:

Oh God, and how don't we trust him?

How about because he came back too soon and screwed up a balanced team, pissed off Penny, made Jamal's play go downhill and then when all that was "accomplished" had to shut it down for the season, leaving us to start Ariza at SG in January?

Yeah, Allan did a great job last year, he's the ultimate team player and not selfish at all.
This is stupid. How can you blame any of this on H20? This is really stupid. He didn't come back too soon, he came back at the right time and was forced into too many minutes too soon because Craw was out with turf toe and Penny was out with old-ass-man-itus
EnySpree
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6/1/2005  1:36 PM
Posted by diderotn:

Nice guy, but I hope not to ever see him again in Knicks uniform. Houston has really hurt this team....financially, spiritually, and emotionally..

Amen.

Physically I don't think he could ever come back and be a pro basketball player. He's 33 now not 23. That's a big difference.

His major issue was he didn't have the lift he needed on his jumper. That's all good but that's his whole game. He was never a savy type player. He doesn't do the little things out there like rebound or ball handle. He never developed any annoying veteran moves over the years. His whole game is that jump shot.

Add that to the fact that he had his surgery last off-season. He's still rehabing? God bless him if he comes back but if he ever does that guy would never be the way he was again. He'll need to refocus his game and become what Rex Chapman, Steve Smith, or Dell Curry became towards the end of their playing days.
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oohah
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6/1/2005  2:23 PM
I have had the same surgery as Allan Houston. That was three years ago. My knee has never been even close to the same, and it used to be my good knee. I had a regular scope on my other knee and it is better than I can ever remember.

I promise you houston is trying to do everything he can and it just isn't working. I am not a fan of microfracture surgery. He probably should have done another (different) procedure last summer--big mistake on his part.

By the way, I have consulted with ex-knick doctor Norman Scott (He did not do any of my surgeries.) I did not care for him.

His knee damage is the result of being used improperly for years on end. Poor Ewing never got the help he needed until he was broken down either, now look what is happening to Marbury. Not that Houston or Marbury can carry Ewing's jockstrap, but there is a pattern.

None of what has happened is Houston's fault. All he has ever done is play his heart out for us and play well in big spots. He was never supposed to be a go to, break-your-man-down kind of player. He is a standup jump shooter, that is why he was so effective shooting off the kick out from Grant Hill in Detroit. He never got the help he needed, he was misused for years in NYC and never complained, and please don't forget, he slayed the evil Riley Heat with one of our greater shots EVER.

Will he come back? Not unless he does another surgery.

oohah
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Pharzeone
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6/1/2005  2:28 PM
LOL, I remember this from the beginning of this season from a NY Post article (thank you Marc Berman). The Knicks won't get any cap relief because Allan was pronounce healthy enough to play by the NBA union certified medical people as well as the Knicks doctors. It is his choice not to play. He would have to get a new injury that prevented him from playing in the eyes of the Knicks doctors and Union doctors in order to get cap relief.
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daddynel
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6/2/2005  12:10 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

LOL, I remember this from the beginning of this season from a NY Post article (thank you Marc Berman). The Knicks won't get any cap relief because Allan was pronounce healthy enough to play by the NBA union certified medical people as well as the Knicks doctors. It is his choice not to play. He would have to get a new injury that prevented him from playing in the eyes of the Knicks doctors and Union doctors in order to get cap relief.
lol, "he would have to get a new injury". like he could just pick one up at the corner store.
Marv
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6/2/2005  12:16 AM
Posted by oohah:

I have had the same surgery as Allan Houston. That was three years ago. My knee has never been even close to the same, and it used to be my good knee. I had a regular scope on my other knee and it is better than I can ever remember.

I promise you houston is trying to do everything he can and it just isn't working. I am not a fan of microfracture surgery. He probably should have done another (different) procedure last summer--big mistake on his part.

By the way, I have consulted with ex-knick doctor Norman Scott (He did not do any of my surgeries.) I did not care for him.

His knee damage is the result of being used improperly for years on end. Poor Ewing never got the help he needed until he was broken down either, now look what is happening to Marbury. Not that Houston or Marbury can carry Ewing's jockstrap, but there is a pattern.

None of what has happened is Houston's fault. All he has ever done is play his heart out for us and play well in big spots. He was never supposed to be a go to, break-your-man-down kind of player. He is a standup jump shooter, that is why he was so effective shooting off the kick out from Grant Hill in Detroit. He never got the help he needed, he was misused for years in NYC and never complained, and please don't forget, he slayed the evil Riley Heat with one of our greater shots EVER.

Will he come back? Not unless he does another surgery.

oohah

I agree with you. on top of it i thought his game was improving before the injury. I think we would have been very happy with his play the last few years if it hadn't been for the injury.
Bonn1997
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6/2/2005  12:17 AM
Posted by oohah:

I have had the same surgery as Allan Houston. That was three years ago. My knee has never been even close to the same, and it used to be my good knee. I had a regular scope on my other knee and it is better than I can ever remember.

I promise you houston is trying to do everything he can and it just isn't working. I am not a fan of microfracture surgery. He probably should have done another (different) procedure last summer--big mistake on his part.

By the way, I have consulted with ex-knick doctor Norman Scott (He did not do any of my surgeries.) I did not care for him.

His knee damage is the result of being used improperly for years on end. Poor Ewing never got the help he needed until he was broken down either, now look what is happening to Marbury. Not that Houston or Marbury can carry Ewing's jockstrap, but there is a pattern.

None of what has happened is Houston's fault. All he has ever done is play his heart out for us and play well in big spots. He was never supposed to be a go to, break-your-man-down kind of player. He is a standup jump shooter, that is why he was so effective shooting off the kick out from Grant Hill in Detroit. He never got the help he needed, he was misused for years in NYC and never complained, and please don't forget, he slayed the evil Riley Heat with one of our greater shots EVER.

Will he come back? Not unless he does another surgery.

oohah
that sucks; how did you injure your knee? Do you think the microfracture surgery helped your knee (even if you didn't have a full recovery--i.e., would you be worse right now if you hadn't had the surgery)?
oohah
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6/2/2005  11:50 AM
that sucks; how did you injure your knee? Do you think the microfracture surgery helped your knee (even if you didn't have a full recovery--i.e., would you be worse right now if you hadn't had the surgery)?

I would be worse if I had not had been scoped, but that doesn't mean the microfracture surgery was successful; let me explain.

I have had bad knees from playing basketball on NYC concrete for 15 years, but I "injured" myself enough to need surgery on an indoor wooden court getting up from a loose ball scramble. I was uninsured when I got injured. It took me 8 months to get covered; in that time I did not stop playing sports. (Playing injured similar to Houston) As it turns out that created a gap in my cartiladge that was discovered on the operating table. The doctor (Who was not Norman Scott.) decided to microfracture at that time to regenerate the cartiladge.

So there were actually 2 procedures: the regular scope and the microfracture. I had the same knee scoped again a year later. I don't think the microfracture itself worked very well, I don't believe there was much, if any regeneration, and what regeneration there was doesn't work so well. Part of that was the doctor was not very helpful with the aftercare and numerous mistakes were made. (I came back too quick, under my doctor's instruction.) On top of that, seeing how it has not worked so well with many big name athletes, I am very skeptical of the microfracture technique's results.

***

Marv, you're right, Allan was getting better. People have always been mad at his contract, but I sure would've signed it! He's never dogged it; to the contrary he's played hurt and risked his career. He's never been MJ, and he ain't no Kobe, but when he was playing we knew we had the best shooter on the court 90% of the time so we had that shooter's chance.

Even on one leg this year you could see that Houston is a much better player than Crawford. He is an efficient offensive player. I just wish Crawford would study some of Houston's tapes and notice that he is supposed to be a SHOOTING guard, not a DRIBBLING guard.

oohah

[Edited by - oohah on 06/02/2005 11:58:24]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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H20: The lost knick!
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