we had this conversation 2 years ago. I believed then,as I believe now that as young high caliber talent via the draft and FA migrated into the east, the more pressure it would put on the Knicks. We have to take this as a 3-4 year program, building players that make sense. We have enough vets to make the playoffs, but i see nothing that guarantees that, and also we dont have even a glimmer of a champioship squad. looking forward to more workouts from Blatche and then Bynum. We cant make a decision without more information. But Bogut to Milwaukee and Marvin Williams to Atllnta, two more lottery picks and huge cap space to all 3 teams dont help the knicks, that just makes 3 non-playoff teams better

that is why it is my opinion imperative for the Knicks to use the picks that we have wisely....We have enough PFs and guards, we need centers...Look Briggs, if we can do a trade to get us a couple more first round picks, I will have no problems at drafting someone shorter than 6'10"....We have to stock up on bigs, I am sorry, they don't grow out on trees....So far, we have 3 picks.....Bynum, Blatche, Akindale, and many others will there at our disposition, at least one of those three names will be a super-star one day...I didn't even include Petro in the mix, because I know that Isiah knows what this dude can offer....Look, the East is getting bigger while the West is getting smaller...We need to go with the flow, just like when we drafted Ewing...At one point, we had: Ewing, Grand mama, Herb Williams, Oak, Smith, and plenty other bigs on our roster. That was when we were at our best.

Posted by fishmike:

winning and managing talent is cyclical. Losing Ernie really hurt us there. He was a guy willing to trade an Oakley for a 25 year old Camby.

This draft should 100% be about the future. Use both the #1s to add guys with a high ceiling. Build the frontcourt with size and skill because thats the toughest to do. You can engineer trades and moves for wing players, but stud frontcourt players are the toughest to get.

So go draft Blatche and Randolph Morris 8 and 30. So what if they sit for a year or 2. They will be more usefull on the end of the bench than Vin Baker or Bruno Sundov. Go give Steven Hunter a 4 year deal. We can afford to overpay. Thats a pretty good start right there to me.

Fish, now you are talking! I think I'd prefer bynum at 8 though. But I would love that.

Let other teams endure these big guy's growing pains. Get Granger at 8, then you use # 30 to toughen up our backcourt w/ combo guard Daniel Ewing or John Gilchrist. Lastly, you use # 54 for some Center project like Akindale or one of the Euro's.

To gain size, use the MLE or tradable assets like Thomas (both of them) & Penny. I'd be happy with Hunter, content with James....we're not going to do much better than that at the C position.

But what about the following:

C - Steven Hunter (will the Suns be able to sign him & Joe Johnson?), Kurt Thomas (assuming he isn't the one to go)
PF - Sweets, Mo, Rose, JYD
SF - Ariza, Granger (assumes both expiring contracts are gone via buy outs/trades or just lingering on the end of the bench)
SG - Crawford, H20 (though I don't know if I beleive he'll ever suit up again)
PG - Marbs, Ewing, Jackson

The addition of Hunter & two defensive/tough minded draft picks allows us to transition away from a soft, pansy-ass defensive team.

Posted by purple012870:

Let other teams endure these big guy's growing pains. Get Granger at 8, then you use # 30 to toughen up our backcourt w/ combo guard Daniel Ewing or John Gilchrist. Lastly, you use # 54 for some Center project like Akindale or one of the Euro's.

To gain size, use the MLE or tradable assets like Thomas (both of them) & Penny. I'd be happy with Hunter, content with James....we're not going to do much better than that at the C position.

But what about the following:

C - Steven Hunter (will the Suns be able to sign him & Joe Johnson?), Kurt Thomas (assuming he isn't the one to go)
PF - Sweets, Mo, Rose, JYD
SF - Ariza, Granger (assumes both expiring contracts are gone via buy outs/trades or just lingering on the end of the bench)
SG - Crawford, H20 (though I don't know if I beleive he'll ever suit up again)
PG - Marbs, Ewing, Jackson

The addition of Hunter & two defensive/tough minded draft picks allows us to transition away from a soft, pansy-ass defensive team.

Granger is a good player and I could live with that. As for "Let other teams endure these big guy's growing pains." Well... your the same guy that wonders why we never have a Jermain Oneil or a Sam Dalembert. These guys dont grow on trees, and they rarely become FAs rather their teams will just match any RFA offers that they get. MLE bigs are garbage. Hows MArk Blount been?

I would do that too, but Green is not NBA ready...Don't compare him to Wayde, because he had 2 years of real organize basketball; nor Lebron, because Bron has the boddy of a TE.....and is NBA ready....Green would have to take the route of ARiza....

Posted by TMS:

Posted by diderotn:

UNDER NO CIRCOMSTANCES that we should use any of our picks on a wing player.....Some of you just have no sense what so ever. We only have 3 freaking picks, and at the moment, we have no frontcout....it takes at least 4 to five years for a crop of big to come out like this season....We need to use our picks wisely...draft big and be patient with them....play them as much as possible. Enough with Kurt as our Center. We've been using this philosophy for at least 4 years, and it hasn't worked....time for something new...

sorry, if Greene is there for the taking, you take him...i don't care how many 7 footers are available...i don't want the Knicks to have egg on their face for taking Darko over Dwayne Wade for example.

[Edited by - TMS on 05/25/2005 14:22:36]

but Rich... at least he tried. Childs didnt work out but he wasnt a bad signing, and Chris did play great defense and hit some big shots. He signed Allan Houston to a very reasonable contract on the verge of breaking out. He dumped Mason who was a malcontent and added LJ, a guy who turned out to be a real leader and hit his own share of big shots. He also added Kurt Thomas, a very good bench player for us as well. So while he didnt draft well he did add younger guys. Some moves didnt work out, some did, but I never saw a the franchise as just happy to sell tickets and make the playoffs. I thought they were pretty commited to getting a title... they just didnt succeed.

he's a gamer and a finisher as well. I would have no problem getting him. I would love to see us use our huge $$$ advantage to move up. If Blatch or Bynum falls to 19 offer the Grizz $3mm and the #30 to move up.

Posted by Rich:

Posted by fishmike:

winning and managing talent is cyclical. Losing Ernie really hurt us there. He was a guy willing to trade an Oakley for a 25 year old Camby.

This draft should 100% be about the future. Use both the #1s to add guys with a high ceiling. Build the frontcourt with size and skill because thats the toughest to do. You can engineer trades and moves for wing players, but stud frontcourt players are the toughest to get.

So go draft Blatche and Randolph Morris 8 and 30. So what if they sit for a year or 2. They will be more usefull on the end of the bench than Vin Baker or Bruno Sundov. Go give Steven Hunter a 4 year deal. We can afford to overpay. Thats a pretty good start right there to me.

Ernie was only a good GM in comparison to Layden, and to this point Isiah. He made a number of stupid, short-sighed trades, like the one for Chris Mills, and he drafted poorly (see 1996). He was also responsible for the awful signing of Chris Childs.

He was never able to surround Ewing with a complimentary player while he was still in his prime, which was his primary assignment.

Besides the Sprewell trade, which he lucked out on because he was damaged goods, the Camby trade was one of his lone brights spots as GM.

OTOH, I agree about the drafting philosophy.

As the legend of Erine Grunfeld grows, it gets lost that he also scouted Fredricka and was set to draft him, Tapscott got his input on him before the draft, I always wonder about the Knicks scouting people during the ninties.

Briggs is right...The sad truth is that we're not going to get better unless we get really lucky in this draft and a gem falls into our laps.
We need a franchise type player and we're not gonna get that is this draft. What we WILL get are PIECES....but without the main piece we will struggle. For all of you who suggest that we buy or trade for more picks, I couldn't agree more. We need fresh blood and fresh legs.
Frankly, I'm all for tearing it down and starting over. I am not a Marbury fan...I had a great friend who was able to observe Marbury in Phoenix. He told me that he's not really a nice person and not a high character guy. Sure, that was a few years ago...and Marbury has matured somewhat, but you still see those scowls and negative body language from him (directed towards his teammates) on the court. The problem is that Zeke has committed to Marbury and our fortunes rest on him. To complicate that, no one is going to trade for Marbury and give up a nice package in return.
So we're stuck...whether we like it or not. Briggs is right on....as the rest of the East gets better and actually improves, we're still struggling for an identity and mediocrity at best. That does not bode well for the forseeable future.