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djsunyc
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5/17/2005  11:01 PM
young, athletic, will pheonix ante up?

looks like a player cleveland/milwaukee/denver will probably target but would a kurt/mo + #8 for joe johnson sign and trade be something you guys would be interested in? (if green, bynum, etc. are gone)

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05/17/2005 23:02:14]
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OasisBU
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5/17/2005  11:05 PM
No - giving up kurt and the #8 for Joe Johnson is insane. The guy is overrated. He is in a good system now, see what he does on his own though. The guy will be a journeyman like Jim Jackson (and I like Jim Jackson a lot more).

I think he is the piece to help a team on its way to a championship similar to JJ - he isnt a stud you trade away your future and one of your only productive bigs for.

[Edited by - OasisBU on 05/17/2005 23:06:39]
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
djsunyc
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5/17/2005  11:07 PM
i can EASILY see isiah making it.

he'll say we got a younger more athletic SG to incorporate in the 3 guard rotation with marbury and crawford and a player way better than the #8 pick would've given us.

it's a total isiah move.
Marv
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5/17/2005  11:08 PM
I'd definitely do it. A 23 year-old 6'7" 230 lb. SG who gives you 17 points on 46%, 5 boards and 4 assists? And is getting better and bettter every year? How long do you think you'd have to wait for Green to give you those kinds of numbers?
Caseloads
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5/17/2005  11:16 PM
Posted by Marv:

I'd definitely do it. A 23 year-old 6'7" 230 lb. SG who gives you 17 points on 46%, 5 boards and 4 assists? And is getting better and bettter every year? How long do you think you'd have to wait for Green to give you those kinds of numbers?
green is the type of stud that could come in and give you those #'s his first year. green is that good, if in the right system. hell, if ariza played the minutes joe johnson plays (40+), he'd give you those stats too, at the age of 19.
Bonn1997
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5/17/2005  11:26 PM
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by Marv:

I'd definitely do it. A 23 year-old 6'7" 230 lb. SG who gives you 17 points on 46%, 5 boards and 4 assists? And is getting better and bettter every year? How long do you think you'd have to wait for Green to give you those kinds of numbers?
green is the type of stud that could come in and give you those #'s his first year. green is that good, if in the right system. hell, if ariza played the minutes joe johnson plays (40+), he'd give you those stats too, at the age of 19.
I don't think Ariza at age 19 would put up those #s on the Knicks in 40 mpg let alone on a 60 win team. I could definitely understand trading the pick for Joe Johnson because he's an excellent, young, improving player, but there are other players I'd prefer (either to draft or to trade for).
Allanfan20
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5/17/2005  11:59 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i can EASILY see isiah making it.

he'll say we got a younger more athletic SG to incorporate in the 3 guard rotation with marbury and crawford and a player way better than the #8 pick would've given us.

it's a total isiah move.

8th pick, I don't know. Depends on who's there and who isn't. If Bynum and Green aren't available, then I'm definitely interested. I think JJ is an EXCELLENT player and Jamal only dreams he can be like him. And I'm not basing this on what the media says. I'm basing it on my observation. I think JJ would be a great player for us to have. However, I think there are more important options for us to explore in the draft.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Caseloads
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5/18/2005  12:24 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by Marv:

I'd definitely do it. A 23 year-old 6'7" 230 lb. SG who gives you 17 points on 46%, 5 boards and 4 assists? And is getting better and bettter every year? How long do you think you'd have to wait for Green to give you those kinds of numbers?
green is the type of stud that could come in and give you those #'s his first year. green is that good, if in the right system. hell, if ariza played the minutes joe johnson plays (40+), he'd give you those stats too, at the age of 19.
I don't think Ariza at age 19 would put up those #s on the Knicks in 40 mpg let alone on a 60 win team. I could definitely understand trading the pick for Joe Johnson because he's an excellent, young, improving player, but there are other players I'd prefer (either to draft or to trade for).
bonn, just to let you know, i did a per 48 mins eval of both ariza and joe johnson from this year. their numbers are pretty much identical... and ariza is a rookie.


Johnson:
YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
04-05 82 82 39.5 8.1-17.5 .461 2.6-5.5 .478 2.0-2.7 .750 1.17 0.4 2.2 2.5 1.8 4.5 6.3 4.3 20.7

Ariza:
YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
04-05 80 12 17.3 6.0-13.5 .442 0.1-0.5 .231 4.2-6.0 .695 2.43 0.6 2.5 5.2 3.1 5.3 8.4 3.0 16.3

Got my stats from ESPN.com - just shows us what a rookie stud we have on the team and how pathetic the knicks are for not developing the kid better - especially since everyone else on the knicks sucked arse this year.
Killa4luv
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5/18/2005  12:40 AM
Im skeptical of players who play well in systems like the one Phoenix runs. As good as Amare is, he is significant;y less of a player in a halfcourt game without Nash. Btw of course i'd take him.

Joe Johnson has a good jumpshot and can create off the dribble as well. I really don't know about his defense though. We could use him definitely, but Crawford isn't far off from becoming the kind of player Joe is, he could concievably do it next season. JJ, isn't the answer for us, we need bigs, and I wouldn't give up our #8 for him.
VDesai
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5/18/2005  3:57 AM
I'm a big fan of Joe Johnson, but I don't see him coming here at all. We don't have the chips to match up as far as a trade is concerened.
Masterplan
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5/18/2005  4:04 AM
S&T for Kurt! or any one of our defensive PFs.

if we can get a young athletic wing for kurt, malik, jerome, we gotta jump on it. joe johnson, josh howard, marquis daniels, anyone else? i would also move those guys for a serviceable center, try kwame, jerome james, steven hunter, not sure who else is worth the money we'd have to give.

[Edited by - Masterplan on 05/18/2005 04:07:19]
fishmike
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5/18/2005  7:42 AM
he's not overrated. He's close to a max player and I think Pho would laugh at KT and pick #8 but who knows.

He's a good defender, has great size and skills and plays 3 positions. He's not with the Kobe/TMacs but I rank him higher than the Larry Hughes, Rip Hamiltons and Ginobilis of the league. The guy is a hell of a ball player.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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5/18/2005  9:11 AM
Posted by fishmike:

he's not overrated. He's close to a max player and I think Pho would laugh at KT and pick #8 but who knows.

He's a good defender, has great size and skills and plays 3 positions. He's not with the Kobe/TMacs but I rank him higher than the Larry Hughes, Rip Hamiltons and Ginobilis of the league. The guy is a hell of a ball player.

i don't think he's close to max but if pheonix has max tied up with marion and amare with nash making close and q making alot, then they may go the draft route for the SG/SF - a cost effective move for pheonix.

kurt + #8 may not sound like alot but considering how we got dice, this may be a decent package for joe.
OasisBU
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5/18/2005  10:08 AM
Posted by fishmike:

he's not overrated. He's close to a max player and I think Pho would laugh at KT and pick #8 but who knows.

He's a good defender, has great size and skills and plays 3 positions. He's not with the Kobe/TMacs but I rank him higher than the Larry Hughes, Rip Hamiltons and Ginobilis of the league. The guy is a hell of a ball player.

I think he is good but overrated. I also think Ginobili owns him - he is definitely underrated.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
Allanfan20
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5/18/2005  10:43 AM
Explain to me how he's overrated. If he were with the Suns, no way they get blown out like they did in Dallas. The guy is 6'7", can play the 1, 2 and 3. The guy is in the shape Jamal Crawford and Trevor Ariza pray they can be in. He can create for himself and others and can score in all ways. He's a complete offensive player. Not only that, but he does whatever asked of him and he's unselfish. I'd take him over just about anyone on the Knicks roster. Tell me this. There's a reason why there has been so much hype around the media and these boards. It's b/c he's STEPPING IT UP BIG TIME in the playoffs. In the regular season, they Suns were great, but he was still burried behind Q-Rich, Amare and Nash and Marion. Now, he seems to be playing above them all consistently every day, on both ends. The guy is worth every penny. I don't think anybody realized that he's that important to the Suns, until he went down.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Allanfan20
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5/18/2005  10:47 AM
on a side note, about the Suns. THey definitely needed JJ, but the way I saw it, Marion and Amare flat out dissapeared. I just didn't see anything from them that night. Especially Marion. He didn't step up at all. I expect a big game from him next time.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
knicks1248
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5/18/2005  10:58 AM
It sounds like you just want to put a bunch of talanted players together and wait to see disaster strikes.
ES
fishmike
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5/18/2005  11:03 AM
I think the guy you can lure away with $$$ is Steven Hunter. JJ, QRich, Amare and Nash will all probably get their $$$ and that will account for $40mm give or take. That means draft picks and LLE type veterans to fill out the roster. Given their make up they would be hard pressed to match an offer to Steven Hunter that was 4 years and started at $3-$4mm a year.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Killa4luv
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5/18/2005  5:06 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

on a side note, about the Suns. THey definitely needed JJ, but the way I saw it, Marion and Amare flat out dissapeared. I just didn't see anything from them that night. Especially Marion. He didn't step up at all. I expect a big game from him next time.
Marion and Amare can't step up because they are limited offensively. They both need to be set up in order to be effective. They weren't being set up because they just let stev Nash score. Thats what they would look like on a team without a good point guard.
Bonn1997
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5/18/2005  6:56 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by Allanfan20:

on a side note, about the Suns. THey definitely needed JJ, but the way I saw it, Marion and Amare flat out dissapeared. I just didn't see anything from them that night. Especially Marion. He didn't step up at all. I expect a big game from him next time.
Marion and Amare can't step up because they are limited offensively. They both need to be set up in order to be effective. They weren't being set up because they just let stev Nash score. Thats what they would look like on a team without a good point guard.
Nash does elevate their games, but they are good scorers even without him. Heck, with Leandro Barbosa as the PG last year Amare averaged over 20 PPG.
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