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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
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Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
5/17/2005  7:57 AM
Just wondering which group you're in. Do you agree with the majority of Isiah's decisions (a supporter), think he's already a disaster, or take the easy way out and say you're neutral?

I'll assume this much so far

Supporters
Bonn
NYK4EVER

Disaster
Briggs
Islesfan
Fish
Rich
AUTOADVERT
Andrew
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #1
USA
5/17/2005  8:04 AM
Neutral: Depending on how the draft goes (youth and size - no trades) I will become more of a supporter. If the picks get traded, or another undersized PF (Warrick) gets drafted I will switch over to disaster.
PURE KNICKS LOVE
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
5/17/2005  8:08 AM
Posted by Andrew:

Neutral: Depending on how the draft goes (youth and size - no trades) I will become more of a supporter. If the picks get traded, or another undersized PF (Warrick) gets drafted I will switch over to disaster.

Neutral too. I agree and to add to that, if we use the expiring contracts to pick up the next shandon, eisely, spoon I will switch to a major disaster!

I'm pretty sure nyk4ever feels the same too
Redsoxrule
Posts: 20141
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Joined: 5/4/2005
Member: #897
5/17/2005  8:13 AM
Leaning toward negative since two coaches (and soon three) have been made the "fall guys" and for the apparent lack of a true and apparent building model. Changing on the fly is not working.
This draft and what Zeke does with expiring contracts is critical to his ultimate rating.
We will NEVER win with Marbury as our cameo guy.
Cookdcokehop
Posts: 22452
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Joined: 3/25/2005
Member: #880
USA
5/17/2005  8:58 AM
Supporter. I got my boy zeke's back all the way
edsonline
Posts: 20345
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Joined: 8/12/2004
Member: #735
5/17/2005  9:02 AM
Cautious supporter. He got Marbury when Layden and Grunfeld (who was and still is a d@mn good GM) couldn't. This draft/offseason might determine the future of Isiah and the team. Two picks he can use or trade this year, next year's Spurs pick that he can put in a trade (if we're pretty good Suns get our pick), two huge expiring contracts, prospects Ariza and Sweetney, and very good and tradeable players Crawford and Kurt. He's in position to make some good and maybe even great moves. Good would be simply acquiring talent with the picks and talent for the expiring contracts. Great would be putting together a package to get a second great player to pair with Marbury. Example - Artest so the team can be built around Ron and Stephon. It's possible as Indiana should and probably will move him. We just have to hope Zeke can put together a deal better than anyone else's, we have the assets. And their would still be enough left to get a third guy, like Odom. The expiring contracts for Odom and Grant or Jamal and Kurt for Odom both work under the cap and should be enough to satisfy the Lakers. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but considering he got Marbury and has loaded up with trade assets I think we should all be at least cautious supporters or neutral. Now if he f---s up the draft and/or offseason his @$$ may get fired. IF he deserves it, I won't complain. We'll see what happens. I'm a Knicks fan, so I'm hoping he at least does a good job.

[Edited by - edsonline on 05/17/2005 09:04:24]
Nalod
Posts: 71389
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Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
5/17/2005  9:32 AM
cautioiusly optomistic fence sitting cynic sarcastically supporting rebuilding with slight pessomistic overtones leaning toward median poplulist views.

In otherword. No Starphuching, I can live with a youth movement, but keep doing patchwork rosters and Im going the way of Brooklyn.

I give them a few years, but I have decided the Knicks need to win me over or I defect to the Nets and demote the Knicks to 2nd class status.

I am becoming less a fan and more a disgruntled customer. Still a customer, but a growing fragile loyalty.
franco12
Posts: 34069
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Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
5/17/2005  9:32 AM
neutral leaning positive- I tend to think if he didn't have the pressure from Dolan to put on a 1st round play off exit team, things might be better.

He's upgraded talent, though parts still don't always fit.

We've gotten younger.

But this is a turning point as to what happens with this team.

what happens with the draft & big expiring deals.
Caseloads
Posts: 27725
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Joined: 7/29/2001
Member: #41
5/17/2005  9:33 AM
ok, look, in the NBA, coaches are hired to be fired.

isiah did not make allan houston's contract, nor did he make houston's crappy knees. isiah did not force TT to play like complete crap the entire year. Once IT saw that Nazr was a bum and that this team was not going anywhere, IT cashed Nazr in for two first rounders, which is not bad, even if they are #30 both years - more trading chips.

in the NBA, it is hard to turn a team around. you usually have to tear it down and rebuild or trade for jason kidd, nash, a mentally healthy rasheed wallace (who was supposed to be coming to NYK for the MLE before the Pistons got him) or shaq while ALREADY having the other pieces in place. AND you have to have drafted a superstar.

Honestly, to turn the Knicks around, we've got to draft a superstar to fit in with the current team. Probably the best move is to get Bynum, because we need someone at the Center position desperately - and so does everyone else. I can not see Bynum (or Green) lasting to #8. Why would any team ahead of us pass on him? Everyone needs a center, especially Utah (4), Portland (5), Bucks (6), Toronto (7). What teams don't need is another McGrady clone, who will score tons but not be the "next dominant force" now that Shaq is clearly on a huge decline.

Even if we do draft Green, we'd be screwed over with the Center position, the hardest spot to fill. Athletic SGs and SFs are wonderful, but unless your name is Jordan, and your GM can find you Pippen, they are worthless. There's about 15 current amazing NBA SGs/SFs who Green can only dream of becoming that are not playing in the playoffs still.

I hope we get into the top 3 and draft Bynum.
Nalod
Posts: 71389
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Member: #508
USA
5/17/2005  9:41 AM
we are younger, more athletic, and have a declining record.

We upgraded our roster, and lose more games.

And we are happy about it!

We are New Yorkers!
MS
Posts: 27060
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Member: #724
5/17/2005  9:41 AM
Disaster!
Nalod
Posts: 71389
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Member: #508
USA
5/17/2005  9:46 AM
Oh be careful here folks. Bonn will hold your "statement of postion" archived for years and should you waiver or change your opinion he will seek to challenge your comment with gleeful self satisfaction that he found any statement to be in conflict.

Just be warned that your providing "Snit Fodder".
Marv
Posts: 35540
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Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #315
5/17/2005  9:55 AM
Supporter.

I'm going by my judgements of his moves at the time he made them. I was in favor of the Marbury, Crawford, TT/Nazr and then Nazr for 2 # 1's, and the signings of Baker, DerMarr and Butler. And obviously the drafting of Reezy.

I think the team was done in by 3 factors this year - H2O's knees, TT's head and whatever the hell was going on with Baker. I don't blame Zeke for any of those 3. Who thought Houston was not going to be able to play? WHo could have predicted TT playing as he did? And Baker, huge huge disappointment that he didn't come back from heart surgery and rehab and at the very least recapture what he did early in the previous season with Boston. If those 3 had played the way they could have been naturally expected to, then I think Isiah would have delivered us a 47-50 win team this year.
diderotn
Posts: 25657
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Joined: 4/15/2004
Member: #650
USA
5/17/2005  10:11 AM
Supporter, but I will give him until this draft to prove that he is worthy of my support. I hate the coaching moves that he has made, instead, he should have assumed to coaching duty from the start and hired a coach that he believes that would have continued his teaching.....But, this is the make or brake season for Isiah....We need to go to the playoffs...
The true Knickabocker..........
Ira
Posts: 24688
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Joined: 8/14/2001
Member: #91
5/17/2005  10:11 AM
Mild supporter. I like some of his moves - some I didn't like. The reason why I say I'm a mild supporter is that he made two moves that I liked a great deal and only one that I disliked a great deal. The moves that I liked were the trade for Marbury and drafting Ariza. The draft for Ariza was a brilliant move that has only begun to pay dividends. The move I particularly disliked was hiring Wilkens when Fratello was available.
fishmike
Posts: 53867
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Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
5/17/2005  10:19 AM
"Snit Fodder"
Now THATS funny
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tkf
Posts: 36487
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Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
5/17/2005  11:16 AM
I am with nalod here, cautiously optimistic, but I am going to support zeke, outside of the Mo Taylor deal, I like all the other deals.... the Taylor deal is still up in the air for me..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
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Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
5/17/2005  11:18 AM
you can put me in the F'ING CLUELESS AND PISSED group.

i have no clue what isiah is doing, all i know is they owe me $1760 for last year's season tickets.
fishmike
Posts: 53867
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Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
5/17/2005  11:29 AM
maybe its easier to support Isiah when their spending doesnt affect your ability to enjoy them. Few things rival being at Knick games in the garden
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
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Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
5/17/2005  11:34 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Just wondering which group you're in. Do you agree with the majority of Isiah's decisions (a supporter), think he's already a disaster, or take the easy way out and say you're neutral?

I'll assume this much so far

Supporters
Bonn
NYK4EVER

Disaster
Briggs
Islesfan
Fish
Rich

Im a nuetral supporter. I want him to exceed because Im a Knick fan and I want the Knicks to exceed. As a true blue knick fan, I dont put any pressure on him to win now IF he brings in a draft that results in a CLEAR messageto what we are doing. If he goes and spends everything we have on second tier players, or all trouble makers, than hes digging his grave.

Right now we are built with way to many Fs not enough Gs. If he adds rising stars like a pietrus for example, perhaps a Dalembart, Elton Brand --that type of player. Ill take Ron Artest, but i want the same deal we gave up for Sprewell--like someone said Kurt Thomas and SA06#1

but if we start what i would call overpaying and just adding more fs giving away picks without discretion, just an absurd grasp at bringing in name players that have just KILLEd th Knicks and rangers--and payinga premium to do so, then ce la vie.


draft===SEPERATE, build for young fresh legs and future
ending contracts--do what you want with them, an ending contract got Baron davis--so we should NOT pay anymore. Baron Davis is a pretty high leveled player and still young, so even with his injury, it should set an example of what TAKING on salary should cost. taking on the salary is enough!
RIP Crushalot😞
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