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Right now I think it's use all assets to get Green
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BRIGGS
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5/10/2005  10:44 AM
if he passes 3, we offer Utah picks 8,30, and 06 SA#1 for 4 if no go

try to move down to 12 with lA for their extra 32

=12 Splitter 7-0 235
=30 Gomes 6-8 235
=32 Nate Robinson 5-8 185
RIP Crushalot😞
AUTOADVERT
firefly
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5/10/2005  10:55 AM
try to move down to 12 with lA for their extra 32

I have no idea what your talking about.
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
firefly
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5/10/2005  10:56 AM
Oh LA!!!
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
fishmike
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5/10/2005  10:57 AM
there's a problem with using early #2s in that its likely they will spend major time on the IR as we have major issues with roster spots. That also means they wont stick around. You can more afford to do that with the #1s as you have them 3-4 years locked.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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5/10/2005  11:18 AM
[quote]
Posted by fishmike:

there's a problem with using early #2s in that its likely they will spend major time on the IR as we have major issues with roster spots. That also means they wont stick around. You can more afford to do that with the #1s as you have them 3-4 years locked.
why? we need to fill out the roster, there are 15 spots! who knows who we will pick, but 30+32 are nice picks in this draft, like i said, drfating players this year doenst necessarily have to equate to massive pT for anyone.
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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5/10/2005  11:39 AM
just seems like a waste to me. If we resign Butler and use our #1s our roster is at 14. If the 2nd rounder makes the roster its at 15. Thats 3 guys on IR for the year. If we use the MLE thats 16. This is without Bruno and JAckson who I assume wont be here. Maybe a Penny buyout brings the # down.

This is a good draft at the bottom.. that much we agree on. But where will the p/t come over the next 2 years? I see one of 2 things happening. Either we dont pick up their options next year after a year on IR or their agents have them sign 1 year deals so they can go somewhere they can get playing time.

The only other option is to use the MLE to sign them to small 3-4 year deals like late first rounders would get. Personally, thats the route I would go. Use the MLE to lock up Butler, Ariza, Gomes and Robinson for 3 year (4th year TO) deals, so when all this cap fodder is gone after 2 years from now we have a nice core already signed pining for playing team and hungry, all 20-24 years old. Thats a solid plan considering where we are. If they dont work out we can afford to waive them. What we cant afford is to draft a guy like Gomes and have him bolt in a year to 2 for more p/t somewhere else and he's the next Bobby Simmons or even Rueben Patterson.

To me that represents smart planning.. we have yet to see that. We would rather spend $8mm on Vin Baker who can give us veteran leadership during our many impending playoffs runs

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nyk4ever
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5/10/2005  12:12 PM
Fish, I like your plan alot, I'd be pretty happy if we could do what your plan states draft-wise and MLE-wise. I'm not into trading up to get Green just yet, at 8 there are still alot of players that are going to be available and geez, I'm gonna sound like a broken record AGAIN but trading up to get Green when he *could* be available at 8 or Chris Taft or even Martell Webster, I think this is the wiser choice.

I'm anxious to see how Martel Webster performs at the Chicago draft camps becuase if he's as good as advertised, then theres no reason to trade up to get Greene and Zeke can still keep his pick 30 and 2nd rounder, which right now are extremely valuable because of the talent that will be available at these spots. I'm still not positive I like Robinson in the NBA, I know he performed excellent in college and in the NCAA tournament but the fact is there aren't that many players in the NBA that perform that well under the height of 5'11 unless your name is Allen Iverson, Spudd Webb, Earl Boykins, Mugussey Boggues so on and so forth but I guess at pick 30 it couldnt't hurt. I for one wouldn't pass up Gomes if he's available at 30, a player with his skills can't be looked past even we have 15 SFs on the team, you gotta take him.


If somehow the knicks draft goes as follows then I'm estatic and its pretty much along the lines of Fish's thoughtprocess.

Pick 8 - Green/Taft/Webster
Pick 30 - Gomes/Blatche/Francisco Garcia(if hes still around)/Robinson
Pick 54 - Best player available, could be someone like Julius Hodge or maybe a foreign project that Zeke some potential in.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
crzymdups
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5/10/2005  12:26 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

if he passes 3, we offer Utah picks 8,30, and 06 SA#1 for 4 if no go

try to move down to 12 with lA for their extra 32

=12 Splitter 7-0 235
=30 Gomes 6-8 235
=32 Nate Robinson 5-8 185

I thought Splitter wasn't staying in the draft unless he got a top five promise? I thought he had a huge buy-out issue?


I still say Hodge and Warrick make perfect sense. The fact that they were brought in on the same day seems like a good sign to me. Zeke is never really one to keep a poker face or misdirect. Everyone knew he was taking Damon, Tracy and Fred Jones. I'm thinking unless there's a trade, Warrick and Hodge are Knicks.
¿ △ ?
BRIGGS
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5/10/2005  12:54 PM
[quote]
Posted by fishmike:

just seems like a waste to me. If we resign Butler and use our #1s our roster is at 14. If the 2nd rounder makes the roster its at 15. Thats 3 guys on IR for the year. If we use the MLE thats 16. This is without Bruno and JAckson who I assume wont be here. Maybe a Penny buyout brings the # down.

This is a good draft at the bottom.. that much we agree on. But where will the p/t come over the next 2 years? I see one of 2 things happening. Either we dont pick up their options next year after a year on IR or their agents have them sign 1 year deals so they can go somewhere they can get playing time.

The only other option is to use the MLE to sign them to small 3-4 year deals like late first rounders would get. Personally, thats the route I would go. Use the MLE to lock up Butler, Ariza, Gomes and Robinson for 3 year (4th year TO) deals, so when all this cap fodder is gone after 2 years from now we have a nice core already signed pining for playing team and hungry, all 20-24 years old. Thats a solid plan considering where we are. If they dont work out we can afford to waive them. What we cant afford is to draft a guy like Gomes and have him bolt in a year to 2 for more p/t somewhere else and he's the next Bobby Simmons or even Rueben Patterson.

To me that represents smart planning.. we have yet to see that. We would rather spend $8mm on Vin Baker who can give us veteran leadership during our many impending playoffs runs


well, excluding Houston[probably will retire] and Hardaway[IR] we have 9 guys signed.
you are just assuming we will use the MLE and resign J Butler, until it actually happens[and it may not] we are quite short believe it or not.
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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5/10/2005  1:25 PM
Houston
Penny
Marbury
TT
Mo T
KT
Crawford
JYD
Rose
Sweetney
Ariza
Thats 11 roster spots, which leaves you with 4.
Thats 4 spots for 3 picks, Butler, any MLE player, etc... its tight
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
diderotn
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5/10/2005  1:27 PM
Hell no....We need as many picks as possible. Trade Kurt, Sweetney, TT, Penny, and maybe Crawff, and our late pick, but that is about it.


Posted by BRIGGS:

if he passes 3, we offer Utah picks 8,30, and 06 SA#1 for 4 if no go

try to move down to 12 with lA for their extra 32

=12 Splitter 7-0 235
=30 Gomes 6-8 235
=32 Nate Robinson 5-8 185
The true Knickabocker..........
fishmike
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5/10/2005  1:32 PM
Posted by diderotn:

Hell no....We need as many picks as possible. Trade Kurt, Sweetney, TT, Penny, and maybe Crawff, and our late pick, but that is about it.


Posted by BRIGGS:

if he passes 3, we offer Utah picks 8,30, and 06 SA#1 for 4 if no go

try to move down to 12 with lA for their extra 32

=12 Splitter 7-0 235
=30 Gomes 6-8 235
=32 Nate Robinson 5-8 185
Dido.. thats where your wrong. What we need is a star. Green has that potential. We dont need depth. We can buy that.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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5/10/2005  1:51 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

if he passes 3, we offer Utah picks 8,30, and 06 SA#1 for 4 if no go

try to move down to 12 with lA for their extra 32

=12 Splitter 7-0 235
=30 Gomes 6-8 235
=32 Nate Robinson 5-8 185

talk about putting all your eggs in one basket. this is the kind of move that can get a GM fired or an extension.

we are walking a fine line here - do we give up a chance at depth for a chance at a "potential" star (key word being potential) or do we acquire as much young depth as possible so we have more flexibility in the future?

we can go either way as a franchise.

unless the player is 6' 10 and above, i for one will not give up all that for a SG like green. i'd rather get 3-4 solid young players out of this and start BUILDING something. hey, if we suck again, at least there's a lottery next season. i don't think gerald green is a once in a lifetime type talent like lebron was.
djsunyc
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5/10/2005  1:54 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by diderotn:

Hell no....We need as many picks as possible. Trade Kurt, Sweetney, TT, Penny, and maybe Crawff, and our late pick, but that is about it.


Posted by BRIGGS:

if he passes 3, we offer Utah picks 8,30, and 06 SA#1 for 4 if no go

try to move down to 12 with lA for their extra 32

=12 Splitter 7-0 235
=30 Gomes 6-8 235
=32 Nate Robinson 5-8 185
Dido.. thats where your wrong. What we need is a star. Green has that potential. We dont need depth. We can buy that.

i look at it like a different type of depth. there's the depth you buy: mo, malik, jyd, kurt, and then there's the depth you draft: ben gordon, deng, nocioni, chandler. we need a star player, that's true, so it's a tough decision to make.
fishmike
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5/10/2005  2:08 PM
all those guys were high lottery picks. 6 years of disaster has yielded some good young players.

What's Green's downside? Allan Houston? Nick Anderson? Sean Elliot? Its not like bust or nothing. Seems like the concensus is he's solid NBA material with star potiential. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
franco12
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5/10/2005  2:27 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

if he passes 3, we offer Utah picks 8,30, and 06 SA#1 for 4 if no go

try to move down to 12 with lA for their extra 32

=12 Splitter 7-0 235
=30 Gomes 6-8 235
=32 Nate Robinson 5-8 185

If you want Utah's pick, why not offer to take Boozer off their hands? I believe folks here were saying Utah would love to move him.

Then, its Utah's pick & Boozer for pick 8 and some matching salaries- perhaps Sweets & TT- something like that.
Knixkik
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5/10/2005  2:31 PM
Green will be a solid player at worst. The only thing i'm concered about is when Qyntel Woods came into the league. He was drawing T-Mac comparisons too, but he ended up dropping in the draft and for good reason. I doubt that will happen with Green. My only concern with Green is what happens if he falls to us? Is it because we're really lucky or did he do that for a reason. I think the only guarentees as of right now are players like Bogut, Paul, Warrick, May, etc. A lot of those players are being overlooked, like Warrick for example. You know he will be a good contributer right away. Plus he does have star potential. Guys like Green, Taft, and Splitter do have more upside, but out of those 3 probably only one will actually reach that upside. At the same time, it's no guarentee they will help at all right away. If Green is there we should take him, but we need to look at why he's there in the first place. If it's a guarentee he's the next T-Mac, he's not lasting to us. If a superstar talent doesn't fall to us, we need to get a sure thing, like Warrick.
MaTT4281
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5/10/2005  3:02 PM
BRIGGS, as far as the draft goes, I'm only going by what I read on these boards (so I personally have no clue about how good these guys will be), but didn't you say a couple days ago that there was no way we should take Splitter?
BRIGGS
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5/10/2005  6:00 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:

BRIGGS, as far as the draft goes, I'm only going by what I read on these boards (so I personally have no clue about how good these guys will be), but didn't you say a couple days ago that there was no way we should take Splitter?

I was just showing examples, put anyone's name in there. I was just showing how we could trade back and get an extra player.

As far as Tiago goes this is the deal, he's really a decent player at an agile 7 foot 240, I just dont think he is worth a very high lottery pick because he has shown no offensive arsenal. But he IS the BEST defensive big man in the draft IMHO. I think in the top 7-8 picks, I think you'd like to walk out with a two way player, I m not trying to overly dis on him, but if people expect a Sean May or Ike Doigu in the paint, hes not that. Is he a Knick draft candidate? Not at 8, but if we moved down and picked up an extra pick, he does reprensent something we dont have. a young athletic 7 foot player who can rebound, block shots and defend. It's to hard for me to say what he is specifically, I dont know the talent level he plays against, the only thing I can say is he LOOKS like the best defensive pivot in this draft, but lacks an offensive arsenal/
RIP Crushalot😞
gunsnewing
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5/10/2005  6:13 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by MaTT4281:

BRIGGS, as far as the draft goes, I'm only going by what I read on these boards (so I personally have no clue about how good these guys will be), but didn't you say a couple days ago that there was no way we should take Splitter?

I was just showing examples, put anyone's name in there. I was just showing how we could trade back and get an extra player.

As far as Tiago goes this is the deal, he's really a decent player at an agile 7 foot 240, I just dont think he is worth a very high lottery pick because he has shown no offensive arsenal. But he IS the BEST defensive big man in the draft IMHO. I think in the top 7-8 picks, I think you'd like to walk out with a two way player, I m not trying to overly dis on him, but if people expect a Sean May or Ike Doigu in the paint, hes not that. Is he a Knick draft candidate? Not at 8, but if we moved down and picked up an extra pick, he does reprensent something we dont have. a young athletic 7 foot player who can rebound, block shots and defend. It's to hard for me to say what he is specifically, I dont know the talent level he plays against, the only thing I can say is he LOOKS like the best defensive pivot in this draft, but lacks an offensive arsenal/

I've heard a lot of people marvel out his shotblocking ability and that his defense is ahead of his offense right now. I still think he'll go in the top 10
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Right now I think it's use all assets to get Green
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