"In the West, with Tim Duncan visibly hurt, there is no reason to believe the Suns won’t be able to advance to The Finals.

With Duncan injured, Amare Stoudemire is the most dominant frontcourt player in the West, though his game remains rather one-dimensional, you can almost make an argument that he is better than a healthy Duncan."

I read this and thought to myself "What the feezy?" Amare better than Duncan? Nah. You put Duncan on any team in the league and he still dominates, put Amare on other teams without a dynamic pg like Nash, and Amare is a good but not great player. Amare is much younger and may be better than T.D. one day, but that day is not here, and is not sure to arrive either.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Amare is much younger and may be better than T.D. one day

I am not sure that day will arrive but what is really going to annoy me Phoenix making the finals. I can see it right now: all the Marbury haters (nets fans, Mad dog Russo and some other dicks) will start with "Marbury leaves and Phoenix makes the finals." Their ignorance is really going to get on my nerves. I am rooting against Phoenix for the rest of the playoffs.

Tim Duncan will get better throughout the playoffs, so I wouldn't give the Suns the trophy yet. But, it would be a very strange Conference Finals between a defensive oriented San Antonio team and a run and gun and whatever with the defense Phoenix team. Interesting Playoffs this year. The Dallas-Houston series has been amazing so far. And imagine if Dallas wins: the Mavs vs. the Suns? Who will break the 200 pts mark?

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by islesfan:

What would be so ignorant about it? You don't think that there's any cause and effect to them trading Marbury and their being the top seed in the west?

Did I sound like I thought "there was no cause and effect to them trading Marbury?" I dont think so. I think I sounded annoyed because most people would forget that Phoenix would never make the finals if Duncan was playing at 100%. Atleast you asked my what I thought instead of creating your own version of what I thought instead.

I dont want to go off topic. Amare is a good player but doesnt compare to Duncan. If Phoenix makes the finals its because Duncan is not playing 100% not because they traded Marbury. If you cannot see that then its only because you dont want to see the truth. Thats what is ignorant about it.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 05/02/2005 23:53:11]

and the fact that amare and marion were injured and they had joe johnson but he was still raw and no Quetin Richardson and no coaching stability.

the Suns almost beat the Spurs the year before because of Steph! They were really building a nice team but the fact remained that Marbury took too much of the cap making it impossible for them to make the team better. They had to trade Marbury's HUGE contract to do it. The same way we might have to unless we get KG or someone of that calibur for expiring contracts.

Amare Stoudamire will never be and I repeat NEVER BE the player that Tim Duncan is. Tim Duncan is the Spurs, he is the reason the Spurs either lose or win. Yes I know Ginobili and Parker are nice young players but Duncan is the reason the Spurs have won 2 titles. Amare is benefited in having a PG like Steve Nash who loves to pass first and shoot second and set him up with Alley-oops. The Suns style of play suits Amare very well, I know he put up huge numbers this year but he has nowhere near the skills that Duncan has whether it be shooting, post game or rebounding. Tim Duncan is not good becuase of Parker and Ginobili, Parker and Ginobili are good becuase of Duncan and Duncan makes everyone around him better. Something Amare doesnt do. I know this sounds like a "I hate Amare post" but I don't dislike the man at all, he excels in the system that he's put in, just like Kenyon Martin does and did with the Nets.

Marbs had a very good season! I really don't think Marbs is holding the Knicks back in any way. We have many problems that even he can't cover for.

Nash is a better fit for his team. They have better pieces, and maturing players.

PHX success does not make our season any better or worse.

Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Amare Stoudamire will never be and I repeat NEVER BE the player that Tim Duncan is. Tim Duncan is the Spurs, he is the reason the Spurs either lose or win. Yes I know Ginobili and Parker are nice young players but Duncan is the reason the Spurs have won 2 titles. Amare is benefited in having a PG like Steve Nash who loves to pass first and shoot second and set him up with Alley-oops. The Suns style of play suits Amare very well, I know he put up huge numbers this year but he has nowhere near the skills that Duncan has whether it be shooting, post game or rebounding. Tim Duncan is not good becuase of Parker and Ginobili, Parker and Ginobili are good becuase of Duncan and Duncan makes everyone around him better. Something Amare doesnt do. I know this sounds like a "I hate Amare post" but I don't dislike the man at all, he excels in the system that he's put in, just like Kenyon Martin does and did with the Nets.

great post...thats exactly the way I look at it! the fact that the 2 are even being compared is ridiculous to me.

This is how I look at it.

Elite
------
Shaq
Duncan
KG

Next Level Down
----------------
Lebron(I think he'll become Elite)
Kobe
Amare
Dirk
McGrady
Wade

The Elite can pretty much carry their team to the playoffs. The others guys need a lot more help because they are 2nd tier.

KG needs help to but he can single-handedly take his team to the playoffs. He really reminds me of Ewing in that way. In the sense that he is dominant but he can't win it all alone because there's shaq and duncan. The same way Ewing couldn't win because of Jordan and Hakeem.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 05/03/2005 18:25:40]

Wade Dirk and amare have never carried their teams to the playoffs, so I don;t know how you arer making this assessment. They are big pieces of teams with good talent around them, but they have never carried anything.

Posted by Killa4luv:

I think now is a good time to revisit this thread. Amare and Duncan have squared of once and Duncan won. I think we all know who the better player is.

My point about Dirk is truer than ever, he has a really good team and he can't do what it takes to make sure they win. I have lost a ton of respect for Dirk because of how he played in these playoffs.

Kobe also never carried his team to the playoffs, and he had Odom and some solid talent around him, they should have made it.

Hold on a second... Duncan's team, not him alone, won the game. Amare scored 41pts! Head to head it's hard to make a comparison on which individual "won" that game.

Amare is young and has unbelievable athleticism and strength. Plus he seems to have that competitive spirit and "no fear" attitude. If he develops a servicable jump shot and a little more understanding of the game then it's not such a long shot comparing these two. You can't have everything, but I think whatever he lacks compared to TD and KG he makes up for in monstrous energy and athleticism.

i can't believe anyone can put KG in the same class as Duncan and Shaq.

You have got to be kidding me.

Put Duncan or Shaq on that Minnesota team and they make the playoffs, at least they make the playoffs.

I like KG--think he is a great player-- but let's be honest, the guy hasn't made the playoffs but 1 time? Come on now.

And stop with the "he needs help" talk. Because on one hand you'll here the argument about how the Suns almost beat SA because of Marbury but then you will hear the argument about how KG needs help.

Yawn.

Duncan and Shaq win championships. KG loses and gets coaches fired.

Oh yeah, Amare is not the player Tim Duncan is.

If you look at stats then yes, you may feel he is but if you look at the resume then you will see how Duncan is above Amare.

Whenever Amare amasses Duncan's resume then we can have a serious discussion about Amare vs Duncan but until then Duncan is the better player, imo