One of those threads that show up every year.

Stephon: B
Did exactly what he has been doing all his career. Tried to turn into a leader but really didnt. Could have done better but the roster is flawed. Cant blame him too much.

Crawford: C+
Did'nt improve his defense, shot selection and didnt get any bigger. He has a ton of potential so he didnt get an F.

Ariza: A
Good player and a pleasent surprise. Only thing that went right for the Knicks all year. needs to improve his jumpshot and put some muscle on.

Sweetney: C-
No improvement in his game . Still fouls out a lot. Didnt lose weight either. THe only thing that can be said in his defense is that he didnt get any playing time. Maybe he didnt prove he deserves playing time in practice.

TT: F
Obvious reasons.

Houston: F
Obvious reasons.

Herb: B+
I really like this guy. He showed toughness and showed that the players will play for him. He preaches defense which is good and does seem like an easy going guy which is good too. If not Phil Jax, keep Herb. Since there is very little chance Phil Jax will coach the Knicks, Keep Herb.

Kurt: B-
Did what he always does. Plays hard, gets rebounds and shoots jumpshots. He isnt a starting PF but plays his role without complaining.

Penny: F
Obvious reasons

Jerome: B
Great hustle player and a good spark off the bench.

Mo Taylor, Malik Rose: B
Did a decent job in their short stay.

Isiah Thomas: B-
It will take sometime for him to finally create the team he wants to. So far, its not too promising. He didnt make any huge mistakes but he hasnt done anything good either. The wait an see game till the 2006 trade deadline.

OVERALL KNICKS 2004-05 GRADE: D
Lowest possible grade without getting an F. Even though they did miserable, this was going to be a transition year. This will be a process. It will take some time.

Good topic Silverfuel new or not.



Stephon: B Would have gotten an A with better D and more leadership


Crawford:C His big games at times kept him from getting a D


Ariza:B+ Hope we hold on to him. Isiah showed what he is good at

Sweetney :CConditioning and foul trouble kept him from getting a B


TT: F Had a very rough year personally so its fair to give him a pass just like it was when Sweetney got one his rookie year.Still want him moved though.


Houston: F For the love of God retire!!!


Herb: D- They played a few good games at first then quit on him and didnt turn it back on until they were eliminated and werent under any pressure.

Kurt: B Reliable for the most part.


Penny: F- I thought he had changed when he first came here because he made an effort to fit in until his PT was cut.Lil' Penny has more heart than this bum.


Jerome: B+ Like I said before,has the qualities that the team has been lacking since the Ewing era Knicks.


Mo Taylor, Malik Rose: C- and C Nothing to see here move on.....

Isiah Thomas: D Sorry Isiah,you brought in some much needed talent but the team looks like pieces of 5 different jigsaw puzzles.Stick to the Fing plan!


OVERALL KNICKS 2004-05 GRADE: D most of the games were close which kept them from getting an F




[Edited by - kwazimodal on 04/23/2005 11:44:19]

Marbury: B- only consistant player on this team but showed no leadership down the stretch of games and got lit up by scrubs way too much because he didn't play any defense this year. His contract doesn't allow to go after actual franchise players so I wouldn't mind doing what Phoenix did by dumping his contractand going after a real superstar like Lerbon. But I'm pretty sure that he will look a lot better playing alongside a player who can actually finish inside.

Crawford: C- UGH!!!! Was no better than the Jamal we saw last year in Chicago, shot the same atrocious FG%, hoisted too many shots and played worst defense than Stephon. So much so that Herb had to put Stephon on bigger players which is very alarming. But with all that said, I liked the way he was playing towards the end of the season. Driving and dishing more but still Zero defense.

I think the problem is too many Knicks fans expect Crawford to become the superstar SG he is not. The Knicks are making a mistake in thinking that Steph & Craw can co-exist in the starting lineup. At his size and frame I see him as an excellent career 6th man combo guard because he will never play the defense necessary to be a winning SG especially playing next to Stehpon who doesn't play D himself.

If he learned to play within the flow of the game and make better decisions I think he'd be a fine starting PG, maybe 3yrs down the line as Marbury gets older and his contract is up. Crawford at his size makes him an extremely tough match up for the opposing PG but as a SG he will always be overmatched.

He gets a C- and not a D because bottomline he is our 2nd best player and without him Stephon really wouldn't have anyone to go to. We saw that when Craw went down.

TT: F- not much to say about him since he's a lost cause but we should be alright at SF next year with him and Ariza splitting time and then hopefully TT getting at the deadline but only if the trade makes sense otherwise just let the contracts expire so we can make a run at Lebron.

Kurt: B- He was pretty consistent as always but the fact that he is our best big man in the 4th quarter is the biggest reason we've had so many collapses and consecutive 30win seasons the last 4yrs. Its not his fault that we don't have someone who can post up or finish inside so that we are not a one-dimensional jump shooting team. And it's not his fault that players go right by him before he even lifts an arm or a leg because we dont have athletic defenders and shotblockers. KT would make a fine role player on a good team.

Sweetney: C+ PF with the most upside on this team. Best rebounder on the team since he actually goes after balls instead of waiting them fall in his lap in 4th quarter collapses. And because he cn score inside and play some D he is our best option at PF. He's shown that he has good moves on offense and was developing a meanstreak as Herb began featuring him in the offense.

Obvisiously the fact that he didn't lose any weight was a MAJOR disappointment but at least he showed us what a inside presense can do for our offense. Now all of a sudden we see trade Kurt threads because of it. But he has too lose weight next year so that he can play 30mins a night without getting tired and picking up lazy fouls.

If Sweetney is not our starting PF next year it better be because we have a real frontcourt player starting. NOT KT, Malik, Taylor, JYD. I would've liked to give Sweetney a B but he has to lose weight and the Knicks have to stop stunning his developement first!

Ariza: B see AllanFan's assessment and like Silver said, A VERY PLEASANT SURPRISE. Not only do I want him to work on his shot but I want him to work on shutting people down on defense especially on the perimeter guarding opposing SG/SF. Especially if we do nothing to improve the perimeter defense.

JYD: B(A+ for effort) more valuable than rose/taylor imo since he works well with steph, crawford and ariza when they run the floor together. And he's really important to this team as a spark plug especially when the starter come out flat every game. Didn't like how Herb had him in the dog house than suddenly started playing him and we started winning and hurting our lottery positioning!

Rose: C works hard but very limited because of his size and Redundant since we already have Kurt and imo is the most likely to be traded or at least the one Isiah would most like to get rid of which could be why he was being showcased while hurting Sweetney's developement.

Taylor: C+ Very valuable for offense off the bench agaisnt 2nd units that are often overmatched. Should never be a starter on this team since we already have Sweetney who can score inside and play better defense and is a much better rebounder. I like Mo but he's certainly not an untouchable.

Herb: C+ did rather ok but the record stunk as did the defense which leads me to think that the players aren't going to suddenly start listening to him next year. I like that he features guys in the post and he clearly understands the importance of that having played with Ewing for so long. So if we pick up a frontcourt player who can score and finish inside we should be in good shape. Would love Phil Jackson but I can live with Herb over wasting money on someone who's still not going to demand the players respect the way Jackson will. Larry Brown is the last coach I want since he's 66 and we'll have to give up a pick as compensation to get him!

Isiah: C I was going to give him a C+ but I will wait and see what he does in the draft and next year. So far outside of drafting Ariza and hopefully finding a gem in Butler there hasn't been any positve moves.

Penny: F---

Houston: F---------------------------------------------------

Overall: D Would've been a F or D- if we didn't have picks to look forward to this year and Ariza and Butler.

Well, thats my honest assessment of this tumultuous season!

Marbury- F
Crawford-F
T.Thomas-F----
Sweetney-F
K.Thomas-F
Houston-F
Hardaway-F
Jerome-F
M. Taylor-F
Malik-F
Ariza-F
Jermaine-F
Sundov-F
Butler-?

Herb- F
Isiah- F

Knicks- F--



Marv, you are soo right! How could I have put a plus close to TT's name? Im so sorry!

[Edited by - KnicksFan on 04/24/2005 12:21:34]

Posted by SKY:

Posted by Knicksfan:

Marbury- F
Crawford-F
T.Thomas-F+++
Sweetney-F
K.Thomas-F
Houston-F
Hardaway-F
Jerome-F
M. Taylor-F
Malik-F
Ariza-F
Jermaine-F
Sundov-F
Butler-?

Herb- F
Isiah- F

Knicks- F++

dito

All right, if no one else is willing to take on the snit role here, I'll just have to do it myself: those +'s have to be changed to -'s. You're actually upgrading Tiny Tim's and the whole team's scores.

"The last word on New York's regular season was delivered by Washington's Anthony Peeler when the Knicks' Mo Taylor was slow to give up the ball after being called for traveling in the final game of the regular season.

``Hey, Mo, quit holding things up,'' Peeler said. ``You know you're about to go to Cancun.'' "

funny yet sad.