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Coaches Corner: Who's our next coach and why?
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TMS
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4/22/2005  12:49 PM
He didn't have the right players to coach in Cleveland and despite that, he was still successful. Just having Lebron is not enough, because even Jordan needed to have shooters around him and a rebounding machine before he went to his first playoff.

ah, i see now...so i guess he'll be infinitely more successful here in NY since we obviously have more coachable players w/talent...good idea.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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Pharzeone
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4/22/2005  12:52 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by diderotn:

Why even mentioning names that are not on the list?

Jackson will for sure coach the Lakers or Cleveland.

My list is and always will be in this order:
Isiah
Lambeer
Silas
Flip
Herb


Posted by TMS:

1. Riley
2. Larry B
3. Jax
4. Isiah
5. Herb

in case you don't understand, the point is you stick w/Herb if you can't get any of the above mentioned guys on my list.

Laimbeer? so he can be another puppet for Isiah? why not simply promote Mark Aguirre then? at least he's more familiar w/the players on the roster.

Silas? & how is he an upgrade exactly? he had 2 teams quit on him down the stretch w/far superior talent than the Knicks 2 consecutive seasons.

Flip? so Marbury can have his man coach this team & create even more dissent, jealousy & resentment towards him among the other players? no thanks...if a taskmaster who will demand the best out of this team is what you want, Flip is NOT the right guy, trust me. he's a players' coach.
How in the world is Herb still a viable candidate. You talk about teams quitting on Silas. I wouldn't call what the Knicks did the last 3 months going all out for a coach. Silas is a considerable upgrade over Herb. I would promote either Aguire or Malone before I brought back Herb. Aguire has already taken credit for Sweetney and Ariza's role on this team this season, so we can't even give Herb credit for that. Marbury has "sore knees" and still got near max minutes which I am sure will effect next season. He was only rested for like the last two games (so much for that theory that Marbury was calling his minutes). I honestly think that Jackson will be the next head coach of the Knicks. All this talk about him going to Cleveland is funny. From what I understand Lebron is trying to get out of Cleveland. I am sure Phil knows that. For that matter I expect Lebron to be a Knick by the start of the 2006-2007 season.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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4/22/2005  12:56 PM
Posted by knixphan:

Not trying to take anything away from Jax (well, maybe I am...) but I think Phil gets a lot of credit that needs to be shared by the on-court coaching of Jordan, plus the sheer dominance of Shaquille. (Case and point, put Shaq on this Knicks squad right now and we go to the finals next season)

If I took a chance on a Jax, it would be Mark, not Phil...but if Steph is staying, let's face it - He respects Isiah more than anyone. If Zeke coaches, there's no chance for insubordination. Steph will get in line with coach Thomas.

Otherwise, Riles for old times sake, and the re-institution of the NY-Miami rivalry...with an ironic twist.
Didn't know Marbury was a troublemaker on the team. News to me.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
knixphan
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4/22/2005  1:01 PM
Oh, didn't mean to imply that Steph is a bad apple - I always wanted him here actually! But he is a strong personality, and I can imagine, if we make a bad coaching decision, and things don't go well, that the friction would start there, between the two strongest personalities, coach and star player...(happens a lot in the league with alpha males) At least with Zeke at the wheel, you decrease that chance to 0%.

[Edited by - knixphan on 04/22/2005 13:02:33]
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Nalod
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4/22/2005  1:05 PM
[quote]
Posted by diderotn:

What? Man are you serious? How do you know that someone will not be a good coach if he is not given a chance? Besides even Phil may fail coaching in N.Y. look here: Lambeer knows the game of basketball and his character alone can be a freaking presence on the side line. Teams were affraid of facing this dude as a player, as a coach he migh command that same respect. As for Silas, he has been successful as a coach. It is not his fault that injuries to his players forced his teams not to succeed. on both occasions, Cleveland and NO, he did excellently well in my opinion. He didn't have the right players to coach in Cleveland and despite that, he was still successful. Just having Lebron is not enough, because even Jordan needed to have shooters around him and a rebounding machine before he went to his first playoff.


[quote]

Some great players make awful coaches. That is proven, so having a marginal dirty player who worked hard on a great team is not a given he will succeed.

Silas is a good coach, who has a rep for not working very hard, or being a detailed teacher. He is old school and does not do well with Divas. His teams in NO were pretty good, he left cuz they did not want to pay him. He is good, but nothing says "great". ANother reatread looking for a big NY payday.

Read the prospectus "past results are not a guarantee of future results".
Nalod
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4/22/2005  1:30 PM
Posted by MinsHeartsReezy:
Posted by Nalod:


Lambierr has no rep. He coaches the women. Being a tough player does not mean you can coach, relate, or command presence. We talking men, spoiled men, men that make too damm much money and act like children at times. Isiah and Phil are into personal developement. we need serious men who want to work, not just talk of it! Phil is my man. Isiah messed up bringing in soft characters.

a tad sexist dont u think nalod?

HELL NO WOMEN! That comment is not sexist. You don't hand the keys to a business that has over $100 million dollars in salary to someone unproven at the NBA level. Peroid. Michael Cooper whom is more qualified than Bill did not get a chance until they fired Jeff what ever his name was. By the way, his failure was not based his Wnba experience, but the players needed to buy into a coach with presence. They were a bunch of underachievers who needed guidence. Like our gazy group.

By the way, the women in the Wnba are toughter than our group. If Bill wants to be an NBA assistant first, and prove himself then Im cool!

I'd say the same thing about a college coach also (except Coach K) as the NBA game is DIFFERENT then women or Mens college ball! Different is not a sexist remark.


Dealing with bloated egos of overpaid underachieving men/childs is no easy task. Whats Bill gonna do, challenge his players like Sam Mitchell did in Toronto? What does being all tough on the court translate to getting into these guys minds and motivating them to follow you the fires of hell! Why not Denis Rodman? He was tough! Charles Oakely, he was tough! Wanna hand the keys to 105million payroll to Mase? He was tough! Rich Mahorn is paying his dues as an assistant, why no mention of him? Ewing also? All we know, Isiah might not like Bill at all!
MinsHeartsReezy
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4/22/2005  1:54 PM
I see your point after you explained your comment and I do agree that he lacks NBA experience which important. However your previous comment came off as if you felt that Lambeer was not a "serious man who wants to do work" because he "coaches the women". It was merely a warrant for an explaination, which you gave. Like you said the wnba players get paid less ( no different than the job market)and get half the respect. I wonder how many people would say an NBA coach wouldn't be able to coach the WNBA. The men may whine about their millions but The women play mind games, which can take a toll as far as being mentally prepared to play the game( thats no easy task either). The 2 leagues are very different and there are double standards but there are difficulties in both leagues that coaches and players have to face.

[Edited by - minsheartsreezy on 04/22/2005 13:59:03]
diderotn
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4/22/2005  2:20 PM
Wait until he is hired by a team that will come to N.Y. and pretty much man-handled our team, than you will all say, maybe we should have hired him. Look at Detroit, who is their GM? Oh here is a much fresher incident, look at Vince in Jersey:::)))) Lambeer is a blue color type of coach, he has proved that he can coach, just like Frank in Jersey who didn't even play in the NBA, Van Gundy, and plenty of other coaches in the league that I will not even mention, Lambeer more than deserve a chance if he wants it....



Posted by MinsHeartsReezy:

I see your point after you explained your comment and I do agree that he lacks NBA experience which important. However your previous comment came off as if you felt that Lambeer was not a "serious man who wants to do work" because he "coaches the women". It was merely a warrant for an explaination, which you gave. Like you said the wnba players get paid less ( no different than the job market)and get half the respect. I wonder how many people would say an NBA coach wouldn't be able to coach the WNBA. The men may whine about their millions but The women play mind games, which can take a toll as far as being mentally prepared to play the game( thats no easy task either). The 2 leagues are very different and there are double standards but there are difficulties in both leagues that coaches and players have to face.

[Edited by - minsheartsreezy on 04/22/2005 13:59:03]
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TMS
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4/22/2005  2:38 PM
not in NY he doesn't...let him prove himself in Atlanta if he wants, or as an assistant in DET...we need PROVEN, ELITE level coaching if we ever want to see a noticeable difference in the way these guys are playing...otherwise, mine as well stick w/Herb because the team is going to be mediocre junk regardless.
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MS
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4/22/2005  3:39 PM
Isiah would not coach the team, because they would absolutley kill him in the press when the team implodes....

You need someone that is going to come in and tell Marbury to go **** himself thats the only way otherwise their is going to be lockeroom division as there was this year
franco12
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4/22/2005  3:46 PM
my thoughts on the next coach are

if you can get phil jackson, great.

if not, keep herb.

its not like the roster is that great.

silas- retread

lambeer- not a whole lot different from what we have in herb

larry brown- he'll ask to be traded back to detroit when the knicks are 15 games under 500 at the mid way point.

Flip- sure, he's won games with a great team and KG- we don't have a KG talent on this team.

sometimes less is more
knixphan
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4/22/2005  4:41 PM
I agree about the coach needing a bigger personality than Marbs, (and on that level, I think there's only Phil, Larry, Doc and Zeke himself)

If Isiah is afraid of the press, he's not ready to run a NYC team, in which case bring Riles back and give him the show.

"I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion."
crzymdups
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4/22/2005  5:06 PM
First of all: I still firmly believe Isiah will never hire Phil, because Phil makes Isiah expendable. Too big of a personality clash.

Who does that leave?

1) Flip
2) Bill Laimbeer

I think it'll be one of those two. Marbs likes Flip, Isiah likes Bill.
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TMS
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4/22/2005  5:49 PM
if it's not going to be any of the big 3, & if Isiah doesn't want it himself & you guys don't want Herb, then i'd rather have either Rick Pitino or Nate McMillan take over than Flip, Laimbeer, Silas or any of the other candidates...either 1 of those guys would be perfect for uptempo style game planning, & you don't make the other players on the team resent Marbury even more for getting his wishes catered to by Isiah by bringing in Flip.
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VDesai
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4/22/2005  6:26 PM
First choice is Pat Riley. By far the best coach in the game and one of the very best coaches of all time in any sport. But he's not a realistic choice.

Next choice Larry Brown. A proven turnaround artist who can win with the least amount of talent. Will take compensation to get him...perhaps more than what we're willing to give.

Next, I honestly like Flip Saunders. Good relationship with Marbs. Can actually implement a zone defense to help cover some of our deficiencies. Has always gotten his team to play team ball on O. I think he's a very solid coach that would do well with the kind of roster we have.

Then Phil Jax. He's got the track record and rings. Let's see if he can turn this ship around.

Nate McMillan is next. He's done an amazing job with Seattle, and he was a smart, solid player in this league who can demand respect.


I also like Eric Musselman. He kind of flamed out in GS, but I thought at one point he really had them headed in the right direction. A hothead but a bright young basketball mind who could be the next Carlisle.

Next, Herb. I think he's a pretty smart coach who was learning to get better this year. I feel like he has a shot to do well somewhere down the line. I don't know if its here.

FInally, Mike Malone. Another young bball mind, who has been on our staff and might do well in the top role. The negative? He like Herb has been here, and we havent exactly won anything.

THe no thanks list?

Silas. Forget this guy. Mediocre, has had his chances. Won't take us where we need to go.

Laimbeer, Aguirre etc. These guys can be decent assistants, but I'd rather Isiah do the job himself than hire one of his buddies.

Oh, and for that matter Isiah. I never really liked him as a coach and I'm not a big fan of the whole coach/GM shtick.
Silverfuel
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4/22/2005  8:37 PM
Posted by franco12:

if you can get phil jackson, great.

if not, keep herb.
agreed 100%
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rojasmas
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4/22/2005  9:51 PM
I said a long time ago that Phil Jax would never take this job because he didn't like Marbury's game. I was met with a wave of, "who cares what he thinks anyhow, who gives a rat's ass he only wins with superstars." Well here we are. Guess what? He still doesn't like Marbury. And judging from the overall posts on this board, the fans are split on Marbury now whereas a year and a half ago he was the darling. He has fallen out of favor. So I will say it again. Not only is Cleveland with Lebron a better option in terms of winning in the next few years, Jax doesn't like Marbury and won't coach the Knicks. Probably not a revelation but worth mentioning again.
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iGotNext
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4/22/2005  11:22 PM
0. Whoppie Goldberg: She can make us laugh when we want to cry. j/k

1. P.Jackson:

Pros: Former Knick and champion player as well as coach, played under legendary Red Holtzman,
a bona fide winner, will not shy away from trading Marbury.

Cons: Has never rebuilt a loser and underachieving non-defense (some exceptions Kurt, JYD, Ariza) playing team like Knicks, will probably use Knicks as bargaining chip for return to
LAFakers or Clevland LeBrons. Gonna cost big buck$, but who spends more for less than the Knicks? This will be money well spent (unlike those JETS ads Mr. Dolan)

2. L. Brown

Pros: NYker, Bona fide winner, was able to beat Zen Master Phils "dream team" in finals

Cons: Health, why leave a Champion to come to a team like Knicks? Gonna cost buck$ see above.

3. H. Williams

Pros: Former Knick, Van Gundy disciple, has good bball smarts, deserves camp to put his stamp on team

Cons: Not a marquee name with experience, put his foot up Marbs *** so marbs don't like him.


All the above have a NY connection and can handle NY media, etc. 1+3 have history of Knick Glory of yore. Ultimately, I believe that we will get better by using the formula of additon by subtraction of our star, Marbury. The league history of teams that have made this trade has proven to be a sure fire way of winning (See Wolves, Nets, Phoenix). I like Marbs, but don't think we will EVER win with him no matter who we get to compliment/play along side him.

If you don't learn from history you will be destined to repeat it. If we keep Marbury, we'll be having the no playoff or one and done blues that are becoming all to familiar here in Knickdom.

I'm TIRED of LOSERS! CABLEVISON SUCK$!

just my 2c

Go Knicks!
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Rich
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4/23/2005  12:57 AM
It will be Phil because the Knicks know that the team will be awful for at least two more years, and since they lack star power in player personnel, they will try to compensate for that deficit with a superstar coach.

Afterall, MSG is about name value, rather than actual value.

In order to get Phil, they will break the bank and pay him an obscene amount of money.
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4/23/2005  11:18 AM
I don't understand why most are saying that Marbs doesn't like Herb. Here is a guy despite the bad knees played his heart out for an interim coach, but some of you are claiming that he doesn't like Herb. The problem with Marb will always be Kurt Thomas, and that will not change until Isiah finds a way or finds the balls to trade Kurt, and the fact that Herb has publicly endorse Herb (Marb's enemy)distance Marb from showing his true appreciation for him. Besides, whas Herb proven to this league for him to be appreciated? He is not a champioin, and most of all, he's never taken any team as a coach to a big game. Who cares? find us a coach who has been in the league, whom has either won championships as a player or as a coach to drive this truck, that is all. Lambeer, Isiah, Silas, Phil, or Larry Brown are my choices
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