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TMS
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5/9/2005  1:43 PM
a backcourt of Marbury & Ray Allen isn't going to win you any titles...if you're going to take on a max player, it should be for a star low post presence...spending 60% of your cap on backcourt players is idiotic unless you have a stud in the frontcourt in the form of a high lottery pick, which unless the Knicks draft Andrew Bogut this offseason, i don't see likely to happen anytime in the near future, especially if the Knicks have a backcourt of Marbury & Allen which will ensure they don't finish w/a high lottery pick for the next 6 years in all likelihood...why on earth would any of you want to be right back to where we were when Houston was healthy lacking any semblance of a low post presence & relying totally on our G's to carry the team to W's? we've all seen that's NOT the recipe to win championships in the NBA (unless 1 of those G's happens to be named Michael Jordan that is).

[Edited by - TMS on 05/09/2005 13:44:30]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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Bonn1997
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5/9/2005  5:46 PM
Posted by TMS:

a backcourt of Marbury & Ray Allen isn't going to win you any titles...if you're going to take on a max player, it should be for a star low post presence...spending 60% of your cap on backcourt players is idiotic unless you have a stud in the frontcourt in the form of a high lottery pick, which unless the Knicks draft Andrew Bogut this offseason, i don't see likely to happen anytime in the near future, especially if the Knicks have a backcourt of Marbury & Allen which will ensure they don't finish w/a high lottery pick for the next 6 years in all likelihood...why on earth would any of you want to be right back to where we were when Houston was healthy lacking any semblance of a low post presence & relying totally on our G's to carry the team to W's? we've all seen that's NOT the recipe to win championships in the NBA (unless 1 of those G's happens to be named Michael Jordan that is).

[Edited by - TMS on 05/09/2005 13:44:30]
Ray and Steph would be just the beginning. Then you use trade assets (expiring contracts, maybe draft picks, maybe young players depending on the deal) to get frontcourt players. Spending 60% of the cap on the backcourt only matters if you're worried about the cap.
TMS
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5/9/2005  6:06 PM
how about using those "trade assets" to get us that low post player first? say you go after Ray Allen now, use up every viable trade asset to get him, & then what are you left with? you think SEA's going to trade Ray Allen to NY for anything less than a package of Jamal, the lottery pick & Penny's expiring contract while making NY take back a veteran contract like Danny Fortson as well in the process? ok, so we're then left with the expiring contract of TT, a veteran player w/a longterm deal in KT, an overweight prospect in Sweetney, & Ariza along w/a pick in 2006 that's likely to be a #11-#15 pick w/the immediate improvement Ray Allen would bring along w/a bunch of overpaid veteran role players that no one is knocking down our door to trade for...just what kind of stud low post player do you propose to get w/that?

1 thing's for sure, Ray Allen & Stephon Marbury would be 1 of the worst defensive backcourts in the NBA...at least we'd have that going for us.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
VDesai
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5/9/2005  6:09 PM
Can we add Cheeks and Carlesimo to our No Thanks list? I really would rather not see either of these guys behind our bench next year...
TMS
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5/9/2005  6:15 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Can we add Cheeks and Carlesimo to our No Thanks list? I really would rather not see either of these guys behind our bench next year...

agreed 100%
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
gunsnewing
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5/9/2005  6:30 PM
Posted by TMS:

how about using those "trade assets" to get us that low post player first? say you go after Ray Allen now, use up every viable trade asset to get him, & then what are you left with? you think SEA's going to trade Ray Allen to NY for anything less than a package of Jamal, the lottery pick & Penny's expiring contract while making NY take back a veteran contract like Danny Fortson as well in the process? ok, so we're then left with the expiring contract of TT, a veteran player w/a longterm deal in KT, an overweight prospect in Sweetney, & Ariza along w/a pick in 2006 that's likely to be a #11-#15 pick w/the immediate improvement Ray Allen would bring along w/a bunch of overpaid veteran role players that no one is knocking down our door to trade for...just what kind of stud low post player do you propose to get w/that?

1 thing's for sure, Ray Allen & Stephon Marbury would be 1 of the worst defensive backcourts in the NBA...at least we'd have that going for us.

problem is what dominant frontcourt player can we get with no assets? unless you consider Kwame a dominant. Bigs are extremely hard to find. what the Clippers are trading Brand to us for Marbury? No chance. of course the key to a championship is having a dominant bigman in the frontcourt but these guys don't grow on trees.

Ray Allen is no Allan Houston. Ray Allen is a truly amazing player! One of the few smaller players who can impact the wins column along with kobe, lebron, iverson...HE IS GOOD!!! if we can put him alongside Crawford or even Steph and sure up the frontcourt with a guy like Taft/Splitter & Z/Kwame we are set!
TMS
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5/9/2005  9:07 PM
where are you going to get a bigman w/o a lottery pick? you think SEA's going to trade us their best player for just Jamal & some filler contracts? please.

& dude, putting him w/guys like Kobe, Lebron & Iverson is like saying KT is in Tim Duncan's league...please...what did Ray Allen ever do in MIL? 1 good postseason series doesn't make a player the next Michael Jordan...that's not to say i think he's garbage...he's a good player, probably in the same class as Marbury but as a SG he has less value imo...definitely NOT worth a max contract.

[Edited by - TMS on 05/09/2005 21:10:36]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
gunsnewing
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5/9/2005  9:32 PM
Posted by TMS:

where are you going to get a bigman w/o a lottery pick? you think SEA's going to trade us their best player for just Jamal & some filler contracts? please.

& dude, putting him w/guys like Kobe, Lebron & Iverson is like saying KT is in Tim Duncan's league...please...what did Ray Allen ever do in MIL? 1 good postseason series doesn't make a player the next Michael Jordan...that's not to say i think he's garbage...he's a good player, probably in the same class as Marbury but as a SG he has less value imo...definitely NOT worth a max contract.

[Edited by - TMS on 05/09/2005 21:10:36]

for expiring contracts like how Baron was traded or for Marbury
Bonn1997
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5/9/2005  9:51 PM
Posted by TMS:

how about using those "trade assets" to get us that low post player first? say you go after Ray Allen now, use up every viable trade asset to get him, & then what are you left with? you think SEA's going to trade Ray Allen to NY for anything less than a package of Jamal, the lottery pick & Penny's expiring contract while making NY take back a veteran contract like Danny Fortson as well in the process? ok, so we're then left with the expiring contract of TT, a veteran player w/a longterm deal in KT, an overweight prospect in Sweetney, & Ariza along w/a pick in 2006 that's likely to be a #11-#15 pick w/the immediate improvement Ray Allen would bring along w/a bunch of overpaid veteran role players that no one is knocking down our door to trade for...just what kind of stud low post player do you propose to get w/that?

1 thing's for sure, Ray Allen & Stephon Marbury would be 1 of the worst defensive backcourts in the NBA...at least we'd have that going for us.
The whole time we'd been engaging in a discussion of whether we wanted Ray Allen on the team (and whether he should be in the no thanks club). Like any player, whether I wanted Ray Allen would depend on what we're giving up. I doubt I would give up the lottery pick for him. It's unlikely that we'd be able to put together a deal attractive enough for Seattle that I would still do. But that's a separate discussion. I thought we were talking about the hypothetical discussion of whether we simply wanted Ray Allen on the roster or on the no thanks club.
TMS
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5/9/2005  11:11 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TMS:

where are you going to get a bigman w/o a lottery pick? you think SEA's going to trade us their best player for just Jamal & some filler contracts? please.

& dude, putting him w/guys like Kobe, Lebron & Iverson is like saying KT is in Tim Duncan's league...please...what did Ray Allen ever do in MIL? 1 good postseason series doesn't make a player the next Michael Jordan...that's not to say i think he's garbage...he's a good player, probably in the same class as Marbury but as a SG he has less value imo...definitely NOT worth a max contract.

[Edited by - TMS on 05/09/2005 21:10:36]

for expiring contracts like how Baron was traded or for Marbury

no way in hell SEA trades us Ray Allen for expiring contracts...that's ridiculous to even consider...Baron Davis was an injury plagued malcontented star player that wanted out of a losing situation & whose team was looking to dump contracts to rebuild the franchise...SEA is a team on the rise that's currently involved in the 2nd round of the playoffs & who wants to try & KEEP Ray Allen on the team...are you kidding me guns? seriously, are you?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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5/9/2005  11:11 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by TMS:

how about using those "trade assets" to get us that low post player first? say you go after Ray Allen now, use up every viable trade asset to get him, & then what are you left with? you think SEA's going to trade Ray Allen to NY for anything less than a package of Jamal, the lottery pick & Penny's expiring contract while making NY take back a veteran contract like Danny Fortson as well in the process? ok, so we're then left with the expiring contract of TT, a veteran player w/a longterm deal in KT, an overweight prospect in Sweetney, & Ariza along w/a pick in 2006 that's likely to be a #11-#15 pick w/the immediate improvement Ray Allen would bring along w/a bunch of overpaid veteran role players that no one is knocking down our door to trade for...just what kind of stud low post player do you propose to get w/that?

1 thing's for sure, Ray Allen & Stephon Marbury would be 1 of the worst defensive backcourts in the NBA...at least we'd have that going for us.
The whole time we'd been engaging in a discussion of whether we wanted Ray Allen on the team (and whether he should be in the no thanks club). Like any player, whether I wanted Ray Allen would depend on what we're giving up. I doubt I would give up the lottery pick for him. It's unlikely that we'd be able to put together a deal attractive enough for Seattle that I would still do. But that's a separate discussion. I thought we were talking about the hypothetical discussion of whether we simply wanted Ray Allen on the roster or on the no thanks club.

what kind of nonsense is that? so we're just talking about whether or not we want players on this team w/o regard for what it would actually TAKE to GET these players? ok, how about Kevin Garnett? i would like him to be a Knick...Allen Iverson? yup, he's another one...Lebron James, Dwayne Wade & Tim Duncan would be nice too.

the whole point in not wanting a guy like Ray Allen on this team is because of the fact that he'd be demanding a max contract & it would take basically all of your best trade assets to get him to begin with...how could that be a separate discussion?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Nalod
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5/9/2005  11:17 PM
WOuld anyone trade Marbs straight up for Ray Ray?
Marv
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5/10/2005  12:08 AM
Posted by Nalod:

WOuld anyone trade Marbs straight up for Ray Ray?

yes yes
gunsnewing
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5/10/2005  1:45 AM
Posted by Nalod:

WOuld anyone trade Marbs straight up for Ray Ray?

the Milwalkee Bucks. Remember the draft day trade Marbs for Ray Ray on drsft day 1996
Allanfan20
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5/10/2005  10:14 AM
Bucks made out better in that trade, but right now, I wouldn't trade Marbury for Ray unless we're committed to making crawford the PG, and we get a draft pick in return. Thing is though, that Marbury's contract is so big, that you'd either have to give Ray a huge contract, like Houstonesque, or take back a terrible contract. I'm not willing to do that. And we wont go anywhere with a backcourt of Ray and Craw and no frontcourt. Just not happening. We might as well stay away from Ray. He's not young anymore and he's demanding A LOT of money. No thanks.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Pharzeone
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5/11/2005  10:53 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Bucks made out better in that trade, but right now, I wouldn't trade Marbury for Ray unless we're committed to making crawford the PG, and we get a draft pick in return. Thing is though, that Marbury's contract is so big, that you'd either have to give Ray a huge contract, like Houstonesque, or take back a terrible contract. I'm not willing to do that. And we wont go anywhere with a backcourt of Ray and Craw and no frontcourt. Just not happening. We might as well stay away from Ray. He's not young anymore and he's demanding A LOT of money. No thanks.
Don't see how the Bucks made out well in that trade or the Wolves. The Bucks only advance once in playoffs the year Allen was there. To me Allen just finally reach what everyone thought he could do since UCONN. The only other time was that playoff series with Vince Carter back in 2001. One could throw him under the "playing an arse off for his next contract" list. I can see Allen securing his money and slowing down after this great season.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Bonn1997
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5/12/2005  8:28 AM
Is Finley still on this list? Did anyone see how much he still has left after watching last night's game? I still wouldn't give up a lot to get him, but I'd take his contract off Dallas's hands if they wanted to free up cap room
djsunyc
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5/12/2005  8:03 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Is Finley still on this list? Did anyone see how much he still has left after watching last night's game? I still wouldn't give up a lot to get him, but I'd take his contract off Dallas's hands if they wanted to free up cap room

finley's contract is death, not only in $$$'s (which you don't really care about) but years as well.

i year of finley now is not worth 3 years of finley after it. we need so many pieces, that going after these older big contract players is not the route we should be pursuing.
BRIGGS
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5/13/2005  11:39 AM
two worst names on the list

antoine walker
al harrington

if we somehow acquire these players I will officially puke my brains out.

RIP Crushalot😞
Marv
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5/13/2005  11:49 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

two worst names on the list

antoine walker
al harrington

if we somehow acquire these players I will officially puke my brains out.

puking alone would be a pretty big commitment.

puking your brains out? That's huge.

OFFICIALLY puking your brains out?? That's the ultimate!

I'm with you. Mine are coming out my mouth too if we end up with either of those 2!
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