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10 reasons to sign Big Z
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diderotn
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4/20/2005  9:18 AM
Ok, my bad. He is a shot blocker, therefore it is imperative to have this dude playing for the Knicks next season. Trade Kurt and Penny's contract for Z and a pick. However, do we really need to trade for him? because I understand that he will be a FA

Posted by Knixkik:
Posted by diderotn:

Big Z is not a shotblocker, but he can score inside and he can also provide interior passing which we are badly missing at this point. We should go after him by offering Cleveland a combo of Sweetney/Kurt/Rose or JYD. We need Z, and Isiah has to draft a shot blocker to bring fear in our opponents' mind...
How is he not a shotblocker? He was in the top 10 this year in block shots per game at over 2.
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franco12
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4/20/2005  10:10 AM
I had a nightmare last night- Cleveland wins the lotto, picks bogut and we get Z in a S&T with our 7 pick & KT & filler. Second preseason game, his foot goes out and he's sitting next to Houston at the end of the bench for the entire season, makes a come back attempt in 06/07 and then is forced to retire.
djsunyc
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4/20/2005  10:11 AM
killa4luv - i think you might have missed the memo. Z joined the 2005 NO THANKS CLUB earlier in the week. let's put it this way, if we sign Z, then we need to dump crawford and ariza b/c even if they run backwards, they'd beat Z down the floor.
diderotn
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4/20/2005  10:20 AM
If you were willing to pay Dampier big money, why not Z???? Z played two full seasons so far, he only missed no more than 10 games....I understand the risk, but who in the NBA who is not at risk???? Did you ever think that Houston would have stat out for 2 seasons???
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TMS
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4/20/2005  10:52 AM
several posters were not in favor of paying Dampier big money either at his age & history of not putting up impressive stats until his contract year.
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Allanfan20
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4/20/2005  10:57 AM
One of those posters was me and I still stand think the same way. I would have signed him somewhere between MLE and 50 mm at most. I would have killed Isiah if he made that deal where we get him for 70 mm.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
TMS
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4/20/2005  11:03 AM
same here dude...i was glad he got Crawford instead...i still think Jamal's got star quality...he just needs to harness it...all we need is an athletic shotblocking C who can run the floor that will complement guys like Crawford, Ariza & JYD.
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diderotn
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4/20/2005  11:16 AM
I for one wanted Dampier, but not the money that his agent was asking. I hated the Crawfford trade, because I thought that we could have done much better. I like JYD, but we could have gotten JYD without comitting a contract for Crawfford. I want Z in N.Y. His game would fit Marburry perfectly. He can post up, and most of all, he can play the pick and roll.. Get rid of Kurt, that is the only way the Knicks will ever be a respectable franchise...

Posted by TMS:

same here dude...i was glad he got Crawford instead...i still think Jamal's got star quality...he just needs to harness it...all we need is an athletic shotblocking C who can run the floor that will complement guys like Crawford, Ariza & JYD.
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gunsnewing
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4/20/2005  11:20 AM
Posted by TMS:

same here dude...i was glad he got Crawford instead...i still think Jamal's got star quality...he just needs to harness it...all we need is an athletic shotblocking C who can run the floor that will complement guys like Crawford, Ariza & JYD.

I dont understand this notion people have that the Center needs to run the floor????

The only center i know thatcan run the floor and beat people down the floor is Amare and he's not even a true Center!

You need your Center to block shots or rebound and start the fastbreak! Thats how fastbreaks start! it doesn't start with the Center running alongside the PG/PG/SF and finishing! LOL
franco12
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4/20/2005  11:30 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TMS:

same here dude...i was glad he got Crawford instead...i still think Jamal's got star quality...he just needs to harness it...all we need is an athletic shotblocking C who can run the floor that will complement guys like Crawford, Ariza & JYD.

I dont understand this notion people have that the Center needs to run the floor????

The only center i know thatcan run the floor and beat people down the floor is Amare and he's not even a true Center!

You need your Center to block shots or rebound and start the fastbreak! Thats how fastbreaks start! it doesn't start with the Center running alongside the PG/PG/SF and finishing! LOL

This is a good point, but it doesn't take into account player chemistry- most of the players on this squad that I hope to see around- Marbs, Craw, Ariza & Sweets- are quick and would mostly flourish in a open, running game.

Having a C like a Stro Swift, Dalembert, etc would be good- if you want to maximize marbs play with a pick and roll & pop type shooter, we already have KT and he gets killed on a daily basis for all the things he's not.

Z would get killed by these same fans because he's slow and all he does is shoot from outside.
TMS
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4/20/2005  11:33 AM
i'd rather have guys who play above the rim & have games similar to guys like Ben Wallace & Marcus Camby over a slow footed stiff like Z who can score in the post anyday...sorry...that's the direction the NBA is going in these days...teams like Phoenix, Detroit, NJ, Seattle, Dallas, etc. run you down w/fresh athletic legs for 48 minutes...that's the type of game i want to see in NY.

it seems like you prefer the Scott Layden vision of going for big, slowfooted guys & running a half court set...then go ahead & trade JYD for Dikembe & Spoon...trade Ariza & Jamal for Bonzi Wells...now you have yourself a team that Z fits in well with.

C - Z / Mutombo / Butler
PF - KT / Sweetney / Mo T
SF - TT / Rose
SG - lottery pick (Green?) / Bonzi
PG - Marbury / Jackson
IR - Houston / Spoon / Penny

there's a team that fits a style of play...that team still sucks, but at least you have matching parts on it...i have the complete opposite vision for this team, which is why i supported Isiah's supposed claim that he was aiming to make this team younger & more athletic from the start...some of his moves have been completely to the contrary unfortunately, which is my biggest complaint about him.
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gunsnewing
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4/20/2005  11:49 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TMS:

same here dude...i was glad he got Crawford instead...i still think Jamal's got star quality...he just needs to harness it...all we need is an athletic shotblocking C who can run the floor that will complement guys like Crawford, Ariza & JYD.

I dont understand this notion people have that the Center needs to run the floor????

The only center i know thatcan run the floor and beat people down the floor is Amare and he's not even a true Center!

You need your Center to block shots or rebound and start the fastbreak! Thats how fastbreaks start! it doesn't start with the Center running alongside the PG/PG/SF and finishing! LOL

This is a good point, but it doesn't take into account player chemistry- most of the players on this squad that I hope to see around- Marbs, Craw, Ariza & Sweets- are quick and would mostly flourish in a open, running game.

Having a C like a Stro Swift, Dalembert, etc would be good- if you want to maximize marbs play with a pick and roll & pop type shooter, we already have KT and he gets killed on a daily basis for all the things he's not.

Z would get killed by these same fans because he's slow and all he does is shoot from outside.

except he blocks a ton of shots and is a better shooter than Kurt Thomas and has a heck of a lot more post moves on offense. Oh wait Kurt has none hahahaha
diderotn
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4/20/2005  11:52 AM
Dude, I like your idea of a big man that can run the floor, but I disagree with your analogy of Kurt and Z as similar players. Kurt can't post up anyone, he only goes to the foul line 0 time. Z is definitely the opposite of Kurt, and lets not forget that he is also a 7'. If what Kurt can provide is that good, why is it that we are amongst the worst teams in the league for the last 5 years???? Dalember is a good player, but he doesn't have the offensive capabilities that Z has. I don't like the price tag that Z may command, but he is a proven Center in this league, and he should be paid. Offer him a 7 million dollars 3 year guarantied paid with a lot of incentives base on health, and Z will be more than happy to play for us. Make the deal $7 million + 3 million with incentives, and. If he plays at the least 70 games per year, he will get that extra 3 million. If he is an allstar, give him an extra 1 million....

that should be the way our contracts are handled from now on. We are paying Houston a boat load of money while he is not even playing, and we have to learn to do things different from now on. I do believe that teams are able to construct or offer such contracts to players, because after all, they are the ones that have to put up with the health issues if those guys are no longer able to play.

Having a C like a Stro Swift, Dalembert, etc would be good- if you want to maximize marbs play with a pick and roll & pop type shooter, we already have KT and he gets killed on a daily basis for all the things he's not.

Z would get killed by these same fans because he's slow and all he does is shoot from outside.
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gunsnewing
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4/20/2005  11:53 AM
big difference between a 40year old Mutombo and a 29year old Illgaukus

and last time I checked Shaq, Duncan, David Robinson, Hakeem have been winning multiple championships
TMS
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4/20/2005  11:55 AM
interesting, last time i checked the defending champion Pistons had a very athletic team that runs the floor & plays tremedous defense.
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gunsnewing
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4/20/2005  11:58 AM
Posted by TMS:

interesting, last time i checked the defending champion Pistons had a very athletic team that runs the floor & plays tremedous defense.

yeah and last time i checked they had a massive frontline with both Wallaces which is the reason they were able to contain Shaq.

Give me an example of a massive frontline that the knicks can put together then maybe I'll think differently. But good look finding one let alone one that we can afford

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 04/20/2005 11:59:59]
diderotn
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4/20/2005  12:01 PM
You are not going to win this argument. Z block shots (2) per game. If we add a rebounding machine like Odoms in the mix to play PF, WE WOULD BE A HECK OF A TEAM TO RECKON WITH
Marb, Spree, Ariza, Odoms, Z......I said Spree, because I would trade Crawff to Minnesota along with Kurt for Spree and draft picks. We can moveup in the draft by using one of the late picks or keep it and draft the Russian dude to back Z at Center.

We could keep JB around as PF because he is cheap and can still learn the game, and trade Sweets, Kurt, and Malik. We would only be left with Odoms, JYD, AND Mo at PF; and at Center, we would have Z, Butler, and big Russian....

Posted by TMS:

interesting, last time i checked the defending champion Pistons had a very athletic team that runs the floor & plays tremedous defense.
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Silverfuel
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4/20/2005  12:03 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TMS:

interesting, last time i checked the defending champion Pistons had a very athletic team that runs the floor & plays tremedous defense.

yeah and last time i checked they had a massive frontline with both Wallaces which is the reason they were able to contain Shaq.

Give me an example of a massive frontline that the knicks can put together then maybe I'll think differently. But good look finding one let alone one that we can afford

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 04/20/2005 11:59:59]
Yea, I agree. That frontcourt is not only athletic, its also Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace and Prince. It would be hard to put together a athletic front court which can match the talent Detroit has up front. I think they won mainly cause off their defense which they played because of the size, not just their athletsim.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
TMS
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4/20/2005  12:04 PM
funny, i didn't know there was an argument to be won here...i thought it was all about my personal preference as to what direction i wanted this team to go...at least i'm being consistent w/a defined line of thinking & a plan...you want to mix & match uncomplementary parts like Z w/guys like Jamal & Odom...if you think that's a good plan, that's your prerogative...how you plan on getting a guy like Odom w/o trading away Marbury i have no clue.
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Silverfuel
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4/20/2005  12:05 PM
franco has a good point.
Z would get killed by these same fans because he's slow and all he does is shoot from outside.
What do u say guns? Z brings presence in the paint on Defense but who plays post offense?

EDIT: Dont say Sweetney. Give me another name.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 04/20/2005 12:06:23]
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
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