Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by BRIGGS:

I dont want to base my team on a guy who with one more blow up is done.

if it was a sprewell deal, I would do it. thats pretty much it. there is no difference in talent level between sprewell in his prime and Artest, in fact Sprewell was probably the better player.

ooohhhh, I don't agree here. Ron Artest is probably the best mna to man defender in the league at his position. I don't think you could ever say that about Spreewell. Spree's offensive game was more developed, but give ron ron a second.

Also Ron isn't in his prime yet, he is still peaking.

You can go back and look at stats if you didnt see Sprewell play when he was young, but Sprewell was a much better all-around player than Ron. I mean he was first team ALL NBA at age 23 and was on two or three high level all nba defensive teams either 2 or 3.

When we acquired Sprewell, prior to him choking PJ, he was a 24 point 6.5 assists almost 5 rebounds 2 steal player who shot 45%

Ron Artest has not had any years like Sprewell during his time in the nBA at the same age. On top of that Artest has been much much worse in terms of his behaviour and the risk involved with him now.

easy there Briggs. Spree put up those kind of stats on terrible Golden State teams. Artest plays on the same championship conending team as O'neal.

Artest is a much better defensive stopper. its not even comparable. All sprewell did better was run the floor

Posted by BRIGGS:

and one more thing--just using common sense

Im very fine with Tim Thomas trevor Ariza and the combination of malik and JYD at SF

we need to address size athletiscm another high quality G and a back up PG.

i just think the younger knick fans want instant gratification and think that there is always an easier route. remember the lesson from Mcdyess


lets have an explosive draft
lets see if we can add a dynamic 3rd guard and a nice back up PG and some size and increase team athletiscm.

Oh, now I get it. It took me a while to figure you out on this thread, but after I read the bold part, I realized you were just joking around

Posted by Killa4luv:

2 things to consider.
1. Where we will be picking, and who is on the board at the time.
2. Can we get another pick anywhere between 13 and 20?

That is really what I would need to know to make this trade. If we can accomplish #2 and get an atheletic big talent there like warrik or petro or Frye, or any of the young big guys, I do it.

If we win the lotto, you obviously don't trade that for a risk, you trade that for a sure thing.

But Ron ron lost 5 million this year, regardless of how many screws he's got loose, I think he learned a very important lesson. He may have costed Indiana and Reggie a trip to the finals as well.

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Killa4luv:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:

I dont want to base my team on a guy who with one more blow up is done.

if it was a sprewell deal, I would do it. thats pretty much it. there is no difference in talent level between sprewell in his prime and Artest, in fact Sprewell was probably the better player.

ooohhhh, I don't agree here. Ron Artest is probably the best mna to man defender in the league at his position. I don't think you could ever say that about Spreewell. Spree's offensive game was more developed, but give ron ron a second.

Also Ron isn't in his prime yet, he is still peaking.

Im just telling you like this, Sprewell at the same age was a better player. not only was he a great offensive player who was a good passer and rebounder from the 2, he was a tough nosed 2 defender and was always high in the league in steals. I mean he was 1st TEAM all NBA at 23, Ron has not been close to that.

When you are saying Id give up a 7pick Tim Thomas and Mike Sweetney for a VERY similar scenario in which we gave up John Starks, Chris Mills and Terry Cummings, you sound foolish[nothing personal]. You are not discounting his problems at all here, and that is major.

Sprewell was the better player and atleast EVEN, but not really spree was better--yet in this case you want to give them 22 year old Sweetney pick 7 AND Tim Thomas, sorry but your are crazy legs!

Briggs, a huge difference between Artest and Sprewell is: Spree put up those numbers when he was gunning for numbers on some of the worst teams in the league (yes, he made the playoffs once with Webber there, I believe).

Artest is a superstar who puts up his numbers in the flow of the game - on some of the best teams in the league each of the last two or three years. And having seen pretty much the entire career of both, I would say Artest is by far the superior defender and rebounder. Spree is a different type of player. I don't know, I love them both and I would probably overpay to get Artest here. I wonder if Zeke will do the same.

Another difference in the situation is: Sprewell attacked a GSW employee, his coach. GSW HAD to trade him and were happy to get ANYTHING for him. Artest attacked a fan in a hostile environment and thought he was protecting himself. I'm not even sure Indiana feels they need to trade him. They still think of him as a top 20 player and they would want a significant package to part with him.



I don't think people watch sports. You say that sprewell put up big numbers on bad teams. Actually Sprewell who was 1st team ALL NBA in 1993 lead the GS Warriors in a very rough west to 50 wins.

Ron Artest on the other hand played 3 full seasons with the Bulls and the most they won is 23 games. That the best the Bulls could do 23 wins with Ron Artest and Elton Brand among aothers. Of course you put him in the right fit with great players in place they will be good.
You put Sprewell on the Knicks with other good players and they went to the finals.

Kobe is a great player. Michael Jordan is a great player--I mean Ron Artest isnt in the same league as those guys and they lost until they had the right fit of players around them. Kobe stinks now or something?

the bottom line is if you were talking about KG, of course I would do it. But we are NOT, we are talking about a combustible player who could be thrown out of the league for good quite easily.
the Knicks organization, the last time we traded a high lottery pick in a good year KILLED the team absolutley kiled it. We gave away Camby and couldve had stoudemire.

Nope, unless someone was willing to give me at a MINIMUM Elton Brand, Id rather build the team up through the draft.

Look at what is happening to the Yankees right now, they became a good club building through the minor leagues, scrapped it and while they have an unfair advantage over every team havent won in 5 years+ they really look like they could stink this year.

If they want to give us Ron Artest for kT and pick 30, thats fine. Im not giving up all that stuff so that Ron can flame in game 33 and get kicked out of the league holding us dry. the risk is way to high, I think its common sense. Were not talking KG here were talking artest.

Posted by Bonn1997:

The Dyess deal is part of the past. You can't approach every deal with Dyess in mind. You have to evaluate it on its own merits. You could never justify any trade of a lottery pick if you approached it with the Dyess deal in mind even though draft day trades of lottery picks can work (and not making such trades can be a mistake as well).

Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by Bonn1997:

The Dyess deal is part of the past. You can't approach every deal with Dyess in mind. You have to evaluate it on its own merits. You could never justify any trade of a lottery pick if you approached it with the Dyess deal in mind even though draft day trades of lottery picks can work (and not making such trades can be a mistake as well).

how???

is Artest leading us to a championship?