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You want Bogut?
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MaulingandAppalling
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4/19/2005  2:55 PM
What I was trying to say is that there has not been an honest and reasonable discussion of Bogut - what he is good at, and what he is not good at.

Every year with the draft, there is a rational discussion about the #1 pick, even Bron - a lot of people questioned his J, etc. But with Bogut, it's like he's some kind of God that we can't have a rational discussion about. Why not?

Surely every baller in the history of the world has had strengths AND weaknesses. So let's discuss Bogut with some levelheadedness instead of 100% praise in every post all the time.
AUTOADVERT
gunsnewing
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4/19/2005  2:57 PM
its not a black or white thing. its the fact that the Knicks deperately need a center and Bogut is the best center in the draft and its not like when Kaman was the best center in the draft. Bogut is a lot better. I would not take Kaman over williams, green, taft but I will take Bogut over them. He is the best center in this draft whether you want to believe it or not! No May is not the best center in this draft! he is 6'8! Bogut is 7'1!
MaulingandAppalling
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4/19/2005  3:00 PM
I think that Bogut is the best center in THIS year's draft.

But, that much being said, does he have any weaknesses we should be aware of? Is there a possible downside? Is there anything Bogut can't do?
gunsnewing
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4/19/2005  3:11 PM
Posted by MaulingandAppalling:

I think that Bogut is the best center in THIS year's draft.

But, that much being said, does he have any weaknesses we should be aware of? Is there a possible downside? Is there anything Bogut can't do?

who cares is there anything Marbury can't do? I hope the answer is YES

is there anything every other propect in this draft can't do? Yes again.! Every prospect has a possible downside...understand now?
MaulingandAppalling
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4/19/2005  3:13 PM
I've already heard EVERYTHING that Marbury can't do a hundred times over. And I've hear the downsides of everybody in the draft. But, my question remains. Does Bogut have a downside? Is there anything he can't do?
gunsnewing
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4/19/2005  3:24 PM
Posted by MaulingandAppalling:

I've already heard EVERYTHING that Marbury can't do a hundred times over. And I've hear the downsides of everybody in the draft. But, my question remains. Does Bogut have a downside? Is there anything he can't do?

he can do everything a great center does. The only question is can he do it at the same high level against nba players and I think he has the tools and attitude to.

I don't get what you're asking? Are u asking if he can run point?
MaulingandAppalling
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4/19/2005  3:26 PM
No, I'm not asking if he can run the point. I'm asking if there are ANY weaknesses in his game at all. Remembr when MJ came in the league, and people said his D needed work, or when Bron came in, and people said his jumper was inconsistent? That's what I'm asking. What does Bogut need to work on, specifically. Does he have a SINGLE weakness that you can name?
gunsnewing
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4/19/2005  3:32 PM
Posted by MaulingandAppalling:

No, I'm not asking if he can run the point. I'm asking if there are ANY weaknesses in his game at all. Remembr when MJ came in the league, and people said his D needed work, or when Bron came in, and people said his jumper was inconsistent? That's what I'm asking. What does Bogut need to work on, specifically. Does he have a SINGLE weakness that you can name?

people answered those questions for you already.

they're more questions than weaknesses since he might not be the greatest athlete of the world but he can still get it done. You don't have to be the best athlete in the world to be a top 5-10 Center in this league.

He's a pretty decent athlete imo more like brad miller/Pau/Duncan than Kaman/Z

but again...duncan, brad miller, pau, Illgaukus aren't incredible amare/KG like athletes but they're pretty damn good players!
Marv
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4/19/2005  3:33 PM
Wow dude you are PERSEVERATING! I've never watched Bogut, but just from following these forums, I can repeat what others have said about his weaknesses:

1. Foot speed

2. Lack of signature move in the low post.

3. Hops
gunsnewing
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4/19/2005  3:36 PM
He has no glaring weakness that will make him the bust misimformed people like to think he's going to be. The same people who said Kaman would be a major bust and he's turned out decent and Bogut is a heck of a lot better. He does everything better than Kaman and he has better footspeed, better post moves and more hops.
gunsnewing
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4/19/2005  3:37 PM
duncan, brad miller, pau, Illgaukus don't have great footspeed and hops either but they are all pretty damn good!
Knicksfan
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4/19/2005  3:44 PM
Ohhh, whatever! Just, please, draft the best player avaliable to us! If its a center, then awesome!!!! Yay!!!!
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MaulingandAppalling
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4/19/2005  3:46 PM
"He does everything better than Kaman" - would you trade Coney Island's Finest for that description?

Bogut has footspeed issues, slow lateral movement which will not only hurt him on defense but will get him into foul trouble in the first quarter in the league. There are 2 major differences between the league and NCAA/Olympics: speed & physicality. And they are not separate issues - they go together, and not recognizing BOTH issues is what gets scouts in trouble and produces both busts and suprises (like Trevor). Can you play twice as fast, with a elblow in your face? For 48 minutes, 82 games? The speed&pain thing is going to be a REAL issue for Bogut in the league.

Also, his free throw % is hovering around 50%, which is not bad if your name is Dudley, but weak for a #1 pick. He's going to get fouled like crazy and they won't be and-1's.

Also, he seems to get confused on the pick and roll, which is such a fundamental play that if a big man can't cover it they can just exploit it till the coach takes him out.

This is one of those weird drafts where a #7 pick may be good enough to get the golden player (McGrady 9th, Ray Allen 5th, Kobe 13th, Josh Smith #17). Personally, I trust IT to find this year's baller at #7.

gunsnewing
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4/19/2005  3:54 PM
does Duncan have great footspeed?

No

but he is a great defender and doesn't everything else well.

So there's no reason to think Bogut will be a bust and I compared Bogut's game to duncan, brad, pau, Z not Kaman. I just brought up Kaman as an example of people discrediting him because he is white
MaulingandAppalling
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4/19/2005  3:59 PM
I don't actually think that Bogut will be a bust.

It's just that if you take a fair and rational look at his strengths and weaknesses, it looks like he's going to be a decent center with a lot of positives AND a few negative, nothing to sell the farm for.

I'd take him if he's around at #7 (I know that's not going to happen), but I would never trade up for him.

Do you really think Duncan is a fair and honest comparison to Bogut? I think that if Bogut comes in the league and shows the hustle and toughness of Kaman it will be a successful transition, but comparisons to Duncan are not worth arguing with.
gunsnewing
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4/19/2005  4:20 PM
Posted by MaulingandAppalling:

I don't actually think that Bogut will be a bust.

It's just that if you take a fair and rational look at his strengths and weaknesses, it looks like he's going to be a decent center with a lot of positives AND a few negative, nothing to sell the farm for.

I'd take him if he's around at #7 (I know that's not going to happen), but I would never trade up for him.

Do you really think Duncan is a fair and honest comparison to Bogut? I think that if Bogut comes in the league and shows the hustle and toughness of Kaman it will be a successful transition, but comparisons to Duncan are not worth arguing with.

I agree with that I don't know if he's worth trading up for but for the Knicks I think it's very worth it since getting rid of Marbury's HUGE contract will allow us to go after championship pieces and give us a better shot at Lebron when he becomes a free agent. While having Bogut on the team. I think thats the kind of thing people are thinking about when they say they would tade Marbury for Bogut. It doesn't mean they hate marbury and he's a bad player it just means they want what's best for the team.

And again I said he's not going to be as good as Duncan. Duncan is an immortal but they are comparable fundamentely, shotblocksing and Bogut is a better passer but not as dominant on offense and defense the way Duncan is. Thats why i said he's more like Illgaukus, Brad Miller & Gasol.
gunsnewing
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4/19/2005  4:23 PM
would i trade marbury for Kaman? NO

would i trade Marbury for a young Yao, illgaukus, brad miller, Gasol + the cap relief to get me closer to Lebron or another big free agent signing? YESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!
MaulingandAppalling
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4/19/2005  4:54 PM
Well, if the larger goal is to free up the cap, then we can do better for Marbles than an unproven big man.

If memory serves, Yao has been in more NBA all star games than Bogut. So has Z. So has Miller.

gunsnewing
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4/19/2005  5:14 PM
Posted by MaulingandAppalling:

Well, if the larger goal is to free up the cap, then we can do better for Marbles than an unproven big man.

If memory serves, Yao has been in more NBA all star games than Bogut. So has Z. So has Miller.

I give up you're not getting the point with this topic
Stevo718
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4/19/2005  5:24 PM
Yeah I also agree he is nothing to sell the farm over. The games I did watch with Bogut it was obvious he had no footspeed or explosiveness.

Is he a little more agile then Yao? Yes but not by much... Does he have a better shot? Hmmm... I don't think so. Is he more physical then Brad? He is physical but not as much. Can he pass better then Sabonis? Nope. He held his own against Duncan. Yeah but he is 3 inches taller then Duncan, playing under Olympic rules. Does he have the footwork of a Duncan? Nope. How bout the finesse of Pau? Nope.

I mean cmon it's the job of the writers and analysts to make the #1 pick look good. This draft is weak. Bogut is the modern day rich man's version of Rik Smits, not just because he is white.

I love white people.
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