Posted by TMS:

excellent thread fish...i've been saying for weeks that AI doesn't get his just due by some fans around here...look at the freakin' games he has for that Sixers team...he's practically carrying them to the playoffs all on his own.

Posted by tomverve:

Phoenix also got a healthy and much improved Stoudemire, a much improved Joe Johnson, and new signee Quentin Richardson. Nash is very important for them, but probably not as much as it seems.

Here are the PERs of some MVP candidates.

Garnett 28.8
Shaq 27.6
Nowitzki 26.7
LeBron 26.3
Iverson 23.6
Nash 22.6

Nash and Iverson are way too low to merit MVP consideration, IMO. I'm taking Shaq.

Posted by tomverve:

Sorry, Bonn doesn't seem to be that off base here. Iverson's PER is just not up to snuff with those of the legit MVP candidates. People don't like this observation because they see him putting up big scoring numbers, and this year good assist numbers as well. It seems that Iverson is on the same level of greatness in certain aspects of the game as other MVP-type players. The major reason he falls short is not because he doesn't score enough or rebound enough or pass enough, but rather because he shoots poorly and turns it over so much. PER takes into account every statistical contribution a player makes to his team, both good and bad. Generally people tend to focus on the positives while downplaying the negatives, but PER gives us an objective means of comparison for all this, and Iverson just isn't up to snuff.

Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by tomverve:

Sorry, Bonn doesn't seem to be that off base here. Iverson's PER is just not up to snuff with those of the legit MVP candidates. People don't like this observation because they see him putting up big scoring numbers, and this year good assist numbers as well. It seems that Iverson is on the same level of greatness in certain aspects of the game as other MVP-type players. The major reason he falls short is not because he doesn't score enough or rebound enough or pass enough, but rather because he shoots poorly and turns it over so much. PER takes into account every statistical contribution a player makes to his team, both good and bad. Generally people tend to focus on the positives while downplaying the negatives, but PER gives us an objective means of comparison for all this, and Iverson just isn't up to snuff.

I agree with that. I think the fact that Iverson needs 35 shots and the ball in his hands all the time to put up those kind of numbers is the reason why he will never win a championship.

Whereas a guy like Jordan could put up 35 shots per game and win a championship because he'll hit over 46% of them.

Even if you get Iverson another star he won't win because he will never mesh with that player.

And he will never win it on his own

HENCE...he will never win a championship.

HENCE....Shaq & Duncan are the best 2 players in this league not iverson, nash, amare, KG or Dirk.

I just like looking at things realistically thats all

Posted by rojasmas:

I think it should be Shaq, Nash or Stoudamire. Duncan has been hurt too much. AI and Lebron's teams barely will make or just miss the playoffs so where is there tremendous value? An MVP shouldn't come from a .500 team, in my opinion. Shaq has taken the Heat to a record they have never seen before as has Nash with the Suns. Amare is on the same Suns team and has better stats than Nash, but never won like this before Nash got there.