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Where do the Knicks go from here?
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EnySpree
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4/16/2005  11:33 PM
The Knicks have 5 power forwards in Mo Taylor, Malik, JYD, KT and Rose.

The Knicks have 3 years of Allan Houston on the books. No one knows what he can bring anymore because he can't get his "lift".

The Knicks don't have a center.

The Knicks have 3 draft picks this year.....where do they fit in? Who do you go with? What are this teams need?

Do you just buyouy Penny and/or Timmy? Do you try to trade Timmy to get him off the roster?

I think the Knicks are totally rebuilding and reloading all at the same time.

The Knicks simply can't win with the current team that is proven. It has nothing to do with having a full training camp. This team sucks.

Steph and Craw definately need a bonified scoring option out of the 3 spot.

What's really good with Mo Taylor? The guy can score.....why not lean on him to score at the 4 and roll with Rose and JYD to back him up. Trade Sweetney and try to draft a real tall freak to sit on the bench until he is ready.

Why not try to get Dan Gadzuric? The guy has got to eb the fastest center in the league. He gets off the floor fast too and blocks shots and finishes.

..........
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Killa4luv
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4/16/2005  11:38 PM
Our scoring doesn't have to come from the 3, it could be the 4 or the 5 or the 3, there just have to be more points coming from other places. Our 3 could just be a defensive player who we use to clamp on the other teams best guard. Ariza seems to be developing into that, as well as running the floor well, and developing a decent jumper.

I like Dan, we should try and get him.
MaTT4281
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4/16/2005  11:40 PM
I try not to ask myself those questions. It seems like the plan is constantly changing, so every move we make is one step back for the next day's plan.
If I tried to analyze and assume there was deep thought for each move made on this roster, I would get a headache.
If I came to the conclusion that there is no plan, I would get annoyed.
Right now, I'm just sitting back and enduring the ride, nervous as hell.
gunsnewing
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4/16/2005  11:49 PM
it better come from the 4 or 5 otherwise we'll never go far in the playoffs!
EnySpree
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4/17/2005  1:09 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

it better come from the 4 or 5 otherwise we'll never go far in the playoffs!

I say the 3 spot needs to be the bonified scorer because there isn't many options at the 4-5 out there.

Mo Taylor is a nice scorer. It seems like he can do everything with the ball. He can post up and face up. He has a decent jumpshot and he has a turn around and he can shoot off the dribble......with confidence. How do you feel about Mo Taylor being the starter?

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OldFan
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4/17/2005  1:17 AM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by gunsnewing:

it better come from the 4 or 5 otherwise we'll never go far in the playoffs!

I say the 3 spot needs to be the bonified scorer because there isn't many options at the 4-5 out there.

Mo Taylor is a nice scorer. It seems like he can do everything with the ball. He can post up and face up. He has a decent jumpshot and he has a turn around and he can shoot off the dribble......with confidence. How do you feel about Mo Taylor being the starter?

Mo is a fine starter - if you're not worried about defense or the ability to put out the effort to contribute consistently. Why are you asking? The guy has been in the league for years and his flaws are pretty obvious.

[Edited by - oldfan on 04/17/2005 01:19:37]
EnySpree
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4/17/2005  9:44 AM
Posted by OldFan:


Mo is a fine starter - if you're not worried about defense or the ability to put out the effort to contribute consistently. Why are you asking? The guy has been in the league for years and his flaws are pretty obvious.

Well Sweetney falls into the same catagory. To Mo Taylors defense(no pun intended) he got hurt after he started showing signs he might be turning a corner. Then Van Gundy came to town. We can't trust Van Gundy's judgement to bench Mo Taylor because the same guy benched Camy and Spree and stuck LJ on Duncan in the Finals. Mo Taylor seems to have a mean streak and a killer instinct. Plus he reads defenses well and makes decisions quickly when he is trying to score.

If all fails I wouldn't mind having Mo Taylor start and get relieved by Rose and JYD. Isiah would just need to trade Sweets and KT and try to get a good center.

I'm not viciously endorsing this.......I'm just throwing stuff out there.

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EnySpree
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4/17/2005  9:50 AM
I also truly believe Isiah should get Dolan to buy Timmy and Penny out.

Isiah could possibly trade KT and Sweetey to get a swingman and/or a draft pick.

Penny and Timmy both were clearly cancers to this team. They both clearly were key reasons why the Knicks sucked so bad this year.

Waiving them both will open up 2 roster spots for a mid-level exemption pick up and 3 draft picks.
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djsunyc
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4/17/2005  10:43 AM
the knicks are in serious trouble and the only way to get out of this rut is to get as many picks as possible and rebuild through the draft while letting these old overpaid dogs expire. that's the ONLY solution. we can make trades, shift overpriced salaries around but until they figure out that we need to get some sort of cap manageability and infuse the team with 22 year olds, it will be more of the same with a ceiling of 45-50 wins and that's it. many fans would take that now but i want more, i want deep runs in playoffs and championships and 45-50 win teams won't cut it.
rojasmas
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4/17/2005  11:19 AM
If the good TT shows up, we have adequate scoring from the 3. Our problem is not scoring, it is stopping the other team from scoring. Marbury scores 21 a game, Crawford roughly 17. TT at his best gives you 15-16. At his worst, 11. The problem is that of those 3, none shut anyone else down. And when you play Crawford, TT and KT, those 3 hardly ever get to the foul line. It is a recipe for losing as we have seen this year. On top of that, our team this year had its share of injuries. At best with this group we are around .500. With a good coach, which we don't have now.
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Bobby
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4/17/2005  11:45 AM
Posted by rojasmas:

If the good TT shows up, we have adequate scoring from the 3. Our problem is not scoring, it is stopping the other team from scoring. Marbury scores 21 a game, Crawford roughly 17. TT at his best gives you 15-16. At his worst, 11. The problem is that of those 3, none shut anyone else down. And when you play Crawford, TT and KT, those 3 hardly ever get to the foul line. It is a recipe for losing as we have seen this year. On top of that, our team this year had its share of injuries. At best with this group we are around .500. With a good coach, which we don't have now.

when all else fails, blame injuries and the lack of coaching. please explain how indy and 'zards complete a winning record. herb is doing the best job possible with the players dealt. if yall want the perfect team join a fantasy league or something.
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rojasmas
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4/17/2005  4:15 PM
Rick Carlisle coached his arse off this year given the hand he was dealt with the melee and suspensions. Eddie Jordan did a great job coaching the Wizards, but didn't have any dramatic injuries for any extended periods of time. And Arenas, Hughes and Jamison are a better nucleus than the Knicks have right now. What is your point? I didn't say Herb coached the team to its dismal record the whole year. Lenny did a crappy job too. The fact is Crawford and TT were out extended periods of time this year. Our coaching left a lot to be desired just the same. This impacted the team's record. The jobs Carlisle and Jordan did underscore my point that coaching matters a lot in the NBA. Look what George Karl did with Denver after the all star break also.
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EnySpree
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4/18/2005  12:32 AM
The Knicks have trouble scoring in the final quarter. That's where it counts. You can never have enough talented scorers on your teams.

The Knicks don't need Timmy to finally step up. They need a guy that can actually do it night in and night out. Not 15pts per game....they need a guy that could get 20pts on any given night. That makes it easier for Steph and Craw to make plays down the stretch.

I strongly suggest that Isiah bring in a bonified scorer out of the 3 spot. The Knicks also need a true center that can block shots and rebound.

The Knicks more than anything just need consistancy. That consistancy is needed from the 3 spot. Ariza is not ready yet. He would be best used off the bench as the sixth man at this early stage of his career.
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TMS
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4/18/2005  9:23 AM
The fact is Crawford and TT were out extended periods of time this year

they didn't win many games w/them in the lineup either...who cares...this team stinks...if Isiah doesn't strike GOLD this offseason, we're in for yet another pathetic season like the one we all just had to suffer through...yay.
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KnickerBlogger
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4/18/2005  10:21 AM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by OldFan:


Mo is a fine starter - if you're not worried about defense or the ability to put out the effort to contribute consistently. Why are you asking? The guy has been in the league for years and his flaws are pretty obvious.

Well Sweetney falls into the same catagory.

Mo Taylor & Mike Sweetney are the same... except:

* Sweetney is 22 & Taylor 28. Sweetney won't hit his peak for another 6 years. Taylor will be out of the league by then.
* Sweetney earns $2M, Taylor $9M
* Sweetney is a better in per 40 minutes at scoring (17PTS to 14PTS)
* Sweetney has a higher shooting percentage (53% to 46%)
* Sweetney is better at offensive rebounding (4.6 to 1.9)
* and getting to the line (6FTA to 3FTA)

Also consider that Big Mike has been playing center all year (save for when Nazr was on the court at the same time), and it's crystal clear. Hands down Sweetney is the better player. The rebounding and shooting percentage alone means he's saving possessions that Mo would just be giving away.

If the Knicks were going to get a legimately good & young center for Sweetney, then I'd be able to live by it. Otherwise the Knicks would be smart in keeping their young PF while they're rebuilding.
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EnySpree
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4/18/2005  11:07 AM
Posted by KnickerBlogger:


consider that Big Mike has been playing center all year (save for when Nazr was on the court at the same time), and it's crystal clear. Hands down Sweetney is the better player. The rebounding and shooting percentage alone means he's saving possessions that Mo would just be giving away.

If the Knicks were going to get a legimately good & young center for Sweetney, then I'd be able to live by it. Otherwise the Knicks would be smart in keeping their young PF while they're rebuilding.

I feel you....but the Knicks have 5 power fwds. Who do you trade? The easy picks would definately be Sweets and KT.

KT has been our most consistant big man all year. He can hit his jumpers consistantly and he averaged a double double for the first time in his career. So do we not trade him because of this?

The draft most likey will open up options for Isiah. He could very well pick up a young big man that is head and shoulders better than Sweets......Isiah could be lucky and pick up KG the same way New Jersey got Vince Carter.

Anyway you look at it.....The Knicks have to make moves to get better. You don't keep players just to hope they can loose weight and develop a killer instinct.

JYD, Mo, and Rose aren't easy players to trade. KT and Sweets are. Thing with JYD and Rose....they won't complain about minutes...and when they do play they always bring it. So they have to stay.

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diderotn
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4/18/2005  11:28 AM
Trade: Penny, Kurt, for Zcerbiak and a draft pick
second round pick and Sweetney for a higher pick in the first round, and take it from there.

We would have an amount 4 picks all together that we could invest in the first round drafting capable ballers...
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KnickerBlogger
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4/18/2005  11:34 AM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by KnickerBlogger:


consider that Big Mike has been playing center all year (save for when Nazr was on the court at the same time), and it's crystal clear. Hands down Sweetney is the better player. The rebounding and shooting percentage alone means he's saving possessions that Mo would just be giving away.

If the Knicks were going to get a legimately good & young center for Sweetney, then I'd be able to live by it. Otherwise the Knicks would be smart in keeping their young PF while they're rebuilding.

I feel you....but the Knicks have 5 power fwds. Who do you trade? The easy picks would definately be Sweets and KT.

KT has been our most consistant big man all year. He can hit his jumpers consistantly and he averaged a double double for the first time in his career. So do we not trade him because of this?

The draft most likey will open up options for Isiah. He could very well pick up a young big man that is head and shoulders better than Sweets......Isiah could be lucky and pick up KG the same way New Jersey got Vince Carter.

Anyway you look at it.....The Knicks have to make moves to get better. You don't keep players just to hope they can loose weight and develop a killer instinct.

JYD, Mo, and Rose aren't easy players to trade. KT and Sweets are. Thing with JYD and Rose....they won't complain about minutes...and when they do play they always bring it. So they have to stay.

Why do we *have* to trade one or two of our PFs? The Knicks have been a lottery team 3 of the last 4 years. Rebuilding takes time. Why rush out & trade our best young player for someone that might be head & shoulder above him, or then again might be a bust? When you draft a guy that shows he can play on this level, you don't trade him for an unproven guy because that guy may never pan out. Unless of course his potential is sky high (All Star level for multiple years).

If the Knicks can unload one of our veteran PFs, then wouldn't that be a better option? Zeke had that problem last year, and was able to move guys like 'Spoon & Harrington. Kurt Thomas' game has declined, so he's a prime candidate.

Rebuilding isn't about getting better now, it's about building for the future. Marbury, Ariza, and Sweetney (and Crawford but I'm not set on keeping him) are young and can be a part of the Knicks future. Maybe they won't be good next year, but trading Ariza or Sweetney because JYD or Rose won't complain (Penny Hardaway I'm look at you) seems a bit short sighted.

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EnySpree
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4/18/2005  12:54 PM
Posted by KnickerBlogger:


Why do we *have* to trade one or two of our PFs? The Knicks have been a lottery team 3 of the last 4 years. Rebuilding takes time. Why rush out & trade our best young player for someone that might be head & shoulder above him, or then again might be a bust? When you draft a guy that shows he can play on this level, you don't trade him for an unproven guy because that guy may never pan out. Unless of course his potential is sky high (All Star level for multiple years).

If the Knicks can unload one of our veteran PFs, then wouldn't that be a better option? Zeke had that problem last year, and was able to move guys like 'Spoon & Harrington. Kurt Thomas' game has declined, so he's a prime candidate.

Rebuilding isn't about getting better now, it's about building for the future. Marbury, Ariza, and Sweetney (and Crawford but I'm not set on keeping him) are young and can be a part of the Knicks future. Maybe they won't be good next year, but trading Ariza or Sweetney because JYD or Rose won't complain (Penny Hardaway I'm look at you) seems a bit short sighted.

Othella has an expiring contract after this season....that's why he was so easily traded. With Spoon, Isiah went left field and trade him for Moochie Norris....no one saw that coming....but the only coach that thinks Spoon can play is JVG.....

JYD, and Rose have 3 and 4 years left on their contracts. They are not gonna be moved so easily.

Sweetney shows signs but you can't go into another season with 5 power forwards and then possibly draft another one. Something has got to give.

KT is as good as traded. He will make some championship contender very happy.
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MS
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4/18/2005  1:26 PM
Isiah sucks, he brings in losers and then complains about the salary cap when he actually has had good flexibility to work with expiring deals.......

Why Mo Taylor, he is out of shape, can't guard anyone, and needs to dribble to score he can't go straight up....

Why Crawford...he was a cancer in Chicago, plays no defense and is a chucker

Why TT....he has been called out by teamates always underachieves, and doesn't play defense

Why Marbury....He doesn't make big shots or free throws, makes bad decisions and isn't clutch when it matter....ohh and plays no defense

Why Lenny? Why fire his top assistant?

Isiah is one big Why after another..........and there never seems to be an answer after the question...
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