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3 team trade for Big Z
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edsonline
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4/16/2005  7:23 PM
NYK trades Sweetney and Hardaway/receives Ilgauskas
Cavs trade Ilgauksas/receive Magloire and PJ Brown
Hornets trade Magloire and PJ Brown/receive Sweetney and Hardaway
AUTOADVERT
MaTT4281
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4/16/2005  7:31 PM
The sequel to the other Z thread.
Knixkik
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4/16/2005  7:31 PM
New Orleans only wanted Z cuz his contract was up. They would never want him now. I like Z but would rather have Magloire anyways. But that deal would never happen. Cleveland would probably prefer having TT or Hardaway and KT anyways.
BRIGGS
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4/16/2005  8:22 PM
Big Z would love coming here, that is quite obvious.
But you are omitting one part, the part about Big Z's foot splitting into 90 pieces in the 4th preseason game.

I dont know, If I could get Big Z at 3 years 27-30mm, I could have soem interest. If he blows up, its not much different from having Theo Ratliff healthy on your roster averaging 3 points 2 blocks and 3 rebounds for 11mm per:>)
RIP Crushalot😞
Kwazimodal
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4/16/2005  8:54 PM
I would much rather sign a center whose contract ends around the time they turn 30,not starting when they turn 30,especially someone already slow as it is.Its too much of a risk and the margin for error on this team is ridiculously thin.
BRIGGS
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4/16/2005  9:24 PM
[quote]
Posted by Kwazimodal:

I would much rather sign a center whose contract ends around the time they turn 30,not starting when they turn 30,especially someone already slow as it is.Its too much of a risk and the margin for error on this team is ridiculously thin.


just sounds like a typical knicks move--pay top $ for a player who is + 30--trade young assets for him and pray he stays healthy. for Shaq OK, for this guy ill give up KT
RIP Crushalot😞
franco12
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4/16/2005  9:53 PM
Z's game is a little similar to Sabonis who was effective to what, his late 30's.

But I would probably rather have Magliore than Z and I'd probably rather take a gamble on some young center out of college/europe and hope for the best rather than sign or trade for a retread and fear the worst.
Kwazimodal
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4/16/2005  9:59 PM
Posted by franco12:

Z's game is a little similar to Sabonis who was effective to what, his late 30's.

Like they say in the commercials,"Your results may vary".Sabonis was one of the greatest centers to play the game and is more the exception than the rule.
diderotn
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4/16/2005  10:39 PM
ONe of the most important reason why Isiah may consider adding Z to our roster is because he is thinking about adding that other young 18 years old Luthian to be groomed by Z.....That kid is young and will probably need someone that speaks his language to relate too, and having Z would facilitate at least would help that kid tremandously.....A 4 year contract at 10 millions is good enough to make this deal happen. I wouldn't commit any more money for Z....
The true Knickabocker..........
Killa4luv
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4/16/2005  11:14 PM
Posted by diderotn:

ONe of the most important reason why Isiah may consider adding Z to our roster is because he is thinking about adding that other young 18 years old Luthian to be groomed by Z.....That kid is young and will probably need someone that speaks his language to relate too, and having Z would facilitate at least would help that kid tremandously.....A 4 year contract at 10 millions is good enough to make this deal happen. I wouldn't commit any more money for Z....
He would help us, we would still need an athletic, shotblocking 4 tho. Z isn't really a shot blocker, but he sure fills up the paint he is areally big. 4 years, if we could get him, would be really cool, we would have a real center, and he is very talented in and out. Him and Steph would work well together, lots of things they could do together.
Pick and roll could rival him and KT's and th driv and dish would be efective as well. He's not relly who I would be targeting, but he would certainly help, and there is no guarantee we can get other more attractive options. I think he'd be a great teachr if we get that tall lithuanian kid too. We just need some size and talent, big Z is both.
gunsnewing
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4/16/2005  11:17 PM
Posted by Kwazimodal:

I would much rather sign a center whose contract ends around the time they turn 30,not starting when they turn 30,especially someone already slow as it is.Its too much of a risk and the margin for error on this team is ridiculously thin.

anyone in mind? Steven Hunter???

you have to realize you can count the number of good centers in this league with both hands...not even! just think about it..what center is worth signing regardless of age.
MaulingandAppalling
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4/16/2005  11:21 PM
Hornets would never do this. Besides, we need to give Sweets another year.

Do we have any chance at Chris Mihm? White bigs are usually overrated but I actually think he's underrated for a big. Plus he gets "white whistles."
Rich
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4/16/2005  11:28 PM
I don't want Z for free.
gunsnewing
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4/16/2005  11:29 PM
Posted by MaulingandAppalling:

Hornets would never do this. Besides, we need to give Sweets another year.

Do we have any chance at Chris Mihm? White bigs are usually overrated but I actually think he's underrated for a big. Plus he gets "white whistles."

he'll can be good if he ever learns to stay out of foul trouble. He always in foul trouble. But of Kurt learned to stay out of it then maybe he can but I still don't think he's worth it. He isn't the low post player big Z is. Not even close
Kwazimodal
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4/16/2005  11:39 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Kwazimodal:

I would much rather sign a center whose contract ends around the time they turn 30,not starting when they turn 30,especially someone already slow as it is.Its too much of a risk and the margin for error on this team is ridiculously thin.

anyone in mind? Steven Hunter???

you have to realize you can count the number of good centers in this league with both hands...not even! just think about it..what center is worth signing regardless of age.

Thats the kind of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place.Its another panic move.Like someone said if it were for the MLE than sure,why not? But it wont be.It will be for alot more and even money for at least 4 years.

All aquiring Z will do is give us maybe a first round exit and in the meantime prevent us from developing a center by draft or trade because there is no way in hell that they will get the minutes to develop as long as Z (and his big azz contract)is on the roster.

Signing a 30 year old center with foot problems is suicide.Im surprised that some of you cant see that this is Allan Houston all over again albeit with a smaller but still significant contract.

Isiah so far has built this team for speed,how are we supposed to do that with an aging center?

gunsnewing
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4/16/2005  11:57 PM
Posted by Kwazimodal:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Kwazimodal:

I would much rather sign a center whose contract ends around the time they turn 30,not starting when they turn 30,especially someone already slow as it is.Its too much of a risk and the margin for error on this team is ridiculously thin.

anyone in mind? Steven Hunter???

you have to realize you can count the number of good centers in this league with both hands...not even! just think about it..what center is worth signing regardless of age.

Thats the kind of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place.Its another panic move.Like someone said if it were for the MLE than sure,why not? But it wont be.It will be for alot more and even money for at least 4 years.

All aquiring Z will do is give us maybe a first round exit and in the meantime prevent us from developing a center by draft or trade because there is no way in hell that they will get the minutes to develop as long as Z (and his big azz contract)is on the roster.

Signing a 30 year old center with foot problems is suicide.Im surprised that some of you cant see that this is Allan Houston all over again albeit with a smaller but still significant contract.

Isiah so far has built this team for speed,how are we supposed to do that with an aging center?

i'd agree with that IF we were talking about signing veteran players at a position other than Center. What young Center are we going to develope without ever having a top 3 pick? Brad Miller or Joel/Brezec who have inflated stats on bad teams? most centers don't develope. Give me Z's abilities at only 29 anyday! Not saying give him $18mil a year for 7 years but I think he's definitely worth TT & Sweetney's $11mil contract...
Kwazimodal
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4/17/2005  12:16 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Kwazimodal:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Kwazimodal:

I would much rather sign a center whose contract ends around the time they turn 30,not starting when they turn 30,especially someone already slow as it is.Its too much of a risk and the margin for error on this team is ridiculously thin.

anyone in mind? Steven Hunter???

you have to realize you can count the number of good centers in this league with both hands...not even! just think about it..what center is worth signing regardless of age.

Thats the kind of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place.Its another panic move.Like someone said if it were for the MLE than sure,why not? But it wont be.It will be for alot more and even money for at least 4 years.

All aquiring Z will do is give us maybe a first round exit and in the meantime prevent us from developing a center by draft or trade because there is no way in hell that they will get the minutes to develop as long as Z (and his big azz contract)is on the roster.

Signing a 30 year old center with foot problems is suicide.Im surprised that some of you cant see that this is Allan Houston all over again albeit with a smaller but still significant contract.

Isiah so far has built this team for speed,how are we supposed to do that with an aging center?

i'd agree with that IF we were talking about signing veteran players at a position other than Center. What young Center are we going to develope without ever having a top 3 pick? Brad Miller or Joel/Brezec who have inflated stats on bad teams? most centers don't develope. Give me Z's abilities at only 29 anyday! Not saying give him $18mil a year for 7 years but I think he's definitely worth TT & Sweetney's $11mil contract...

Not trying to get technical but he will be 30 in June.Even a 4 year contract is a risk.Even if his stats take a dive,because of age,injury,whatever,they will still try to get every cent they paid out of him in minutes.Its not a stretch to believe that his stats will decline.

Signing Z is basically putting the clamps on developing any center in college or a young free agent that comes along for at least 4 years.Thats the way its always been in NY with big free agent signings.If I thought that there was going to be a change in that philosophy,than I might agree.
franco12
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4/17/2005  12:24 AM
this knick team needs to get younger and more athletic.

Z might be a good fit on a team like Boston or Dallas or Chicago.

I don't think we'll be a real threat until Houston's deal is finished-

and that has as much to do with acquiring talent as it does with having cap flexibility.

And Z will officially be over the hill then.
gunsnewing
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4/17/2005  12:33 AM
what centers have developed who weren't lottery picks over the years? there's only a handfulof them. You want to sit around for another 5yrs waiting for one to surface go ahead but I'll take 3-4yrs of Z at 17pts, 7rebs, 3blks a game. he's not going to suddenly stop producing at 30. maybe at 33, 34, 35, 36

a typical knicks move would be to go after a player coming off knee surgery like a Mcdyess or giving the full mle to a guy like Weatherspoon or trading for a washed up Glen Rice, penny hardaway.

I don't think trading for a 30yr old 17/7/3 player who is one of the best players at the ever so thin Center position is a typical Knicks move. Now if Z was 6'6 300LBS then that would be a typical Knicks move!
Kwazimodal
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4/17/2005  1:19 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

what centers have developed who weren't lottery picks over the years? there's only a handfulof them. You want to sit around for another 5yrs waiting for one to surface go ahead but I'll take 3-4yrs of Z at 17pts, 7rebs, 3blks a game. he's not going to suddenly stop producing at 30. maybe at 33, 34, 35, 36

a typical knicks move would be to go after a player coming off knee surgery like a Mcdyess or giving the full mle to a guy like Weatherspoon or trading for a washed up Glen Rice, penny hardaway.

I don't think trading for a 30yr old 17/7/3 player who is one of the best players at the ever so thin Center position is a typical Knicks move. Now if Z was 6'6 300LBS then that would be a typical Knicks move!

If you are asking me how many superstar centers developed that werent high lottery picks then the answer would be not many,but who is talking about drafting a superstar without a high pick? Not me.

If the question is how many good centers were aquired in the bottom of the first round,and high second round,picks which we have in abundance and will have in the future,then Ill give you one for starters Zydrunas Ilgauskas,and there are alot more.

Im not talking about waiting 5 years for the Knicks to hit the jackpot.Im talking about being patient and not blowing our wad,long term on some center with foot problems who just hit the age where the body starts to break down,I know this from personal experience unfortunately.

You want a center that should have a good year or two then probably be ready for the glue factory?Be my guest.We can all have a party because we got to the first round and Marbury will be happy to find someone else to run the pick and roll to inflate his stats as you have pointed out before.

What we wont have is a center that can run on a team that was built to run.We wont have a center that can keep up with his teamates long term even though he will have a long term deal.We wont have an opportunity to find someone to take his place until his contract is almost up because mgmt wont let anyone take his place unless he is too hurt to play.Then we have Houston all over again.

As far as this not being a classic NY move,one of the biggest complaints about the Houston deal was the length of the contract.That he would hit 30 and would start to fall apart even though he was relatively injury free up to that point,and guess what happened? You know the rest.

We now have a player that has injury problems,is 30,and Isiah is probably going offer him an expensive,long term,deal.If that isnt a classic NY move......
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