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This is a very alarming quote:
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Allanfan20
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4/12/2005  1:48 AM
"I hope it’s the start of a winning streak -- and the basis for building something bigger and better in the future.”

That's what Herb Williams just said I think today. What's building for something bigger and better in the future? Ariza and Butler aren't playing? Good things happen, for the most part, when Ariza plays. We are out of the playoffs. Winning just hurts the future. Where is Isiah? Is he just being stubborn? This is where the GM is supposed to step in and tell Herb what to do. I can't kill Herb for this, b/c he's an inexperienced coach, and this is the type of coaching he has been surrounded with since he's been with the Knicks. And that is why Isiah has to step in. If Ariza and Butler aren't getting playing experience in meaningless games, and we get further and further from a top 5 or spot in the lotto, then what is the point of talking about the future? This is REALLY the dumbest franchise in basketball, and one of the dumbest franchises in sports.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
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rvhoss
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4/12/2005  5:47 AM
get a grip...you play to win.

Is the 5th pick that much better than the 6th?
According to that same article, we have a 20 year old 6' 10" center already.

Bogut won't be available with the 5th or 6th or 7th pick.

Hopefully you are just kidding with this kind of talk, otherwise, I'm embarrassed for you...maybe you've never played sports before?

Ariza is a second round draft pick...this years first round draft pick isn't going to add 20 games to our win column...it won't even add 10.

So, please stop with the "this is stupid that the knicks are trying to win" talk...

It's absolutely embarrassing for you and the entire board.
all kool aid all the time.
MaTT4281
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4/12/2005  6:51 AM
You can relax. We've been trying to win for how long now, and look where that got us.
It is really frustrating that Herb refuses to play Ariza or Butler, and I was surprised about Ariza. Herb played TT for 40 minutes a night, but doesn't seem to think Trevor can help win the games.
diderotn
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4/12/2005  7:13 AM
Herb is fighting for a job, and his greed is rendering him clueless.

Posted by MaTT4281:

You can relax. We've been trying to win for how long now, and look where that got us.
It is really frustrating that Herb refuses to play Ariza or Butler, and I was surprised about Ariza. Herb played TT for 40 minutes a night, but doesn't seem to think Trevor can help win the games.
The true Knickabocker..........
TheSage
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4/12/2005  7:36 AM
A coaches job is to win games, develope a winning attitude, control game tempo, teach. In HW's mind, if he can show that the players are working at their craft, putting out the effort and winning games he has earned his paycheck. If he plays the guys we'd all like to see out there, he's send a message to the players that the season is over, pack it in and the rest of the games are meaningless. He's in a catch 22.

There may be a method to the madness of not playing certain guys-keep the value down before another team see enough to make an outrageous offer (Sundov and Butler)
fishmike
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4/12/2005  7:38 AM
fighting for your job and doing your job is greedy now? Thats a bad choice of words.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
matt
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4/12/2005  9:20 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

get a grip...you play to win.

Is the 5th pick that much better than the 6th?
According to that same article, we have a 20 year old 6' 10" center already.

Bogut won't be available with the 5th or 6th or 7th pick.

Hopefully you are just kidding with this kind of talk, otherwise, I'm embarrassed for you...maybe you've never played sports before?

Ariza is a second round draft pick...this years first round draft pick isn't going to add 20 games to our win column...it won't even add 10.

So, please stop with the "this is stupid that the knicks are trying to win" talk...

It's absolutely embarrassing for you and the entire board.

Exactly, the point of playing games is to win, not to try and get a better lottery posistion. I know it doesn't really help the the Knicks if the win the rest, but I'm sure if I was a player I wouldn't be too happy if I had to lose every game so we could get in better posistion for a lottery pick...
joec32033
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4/12/2005  9:26 AM
If Butler is gonna be that good, maybe we can throw one of our picks towards a high swing man and ot have to worry about that second big man. Maybe Taft and McCants
~You can't run from who you are.~
Knicksfan
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4/12/2005  10:00 AM
Why worrying about Herb trying to win his last games? Like MaTT said, he has been trying to since he got the coaching nod and look at the results! We will be back in the lottery and I can only hope that we draft a great player anywhere we select. I can't care less if they win or lose because its always the same with NY. Weren't we supposed to have a great season this year because last year we won a lot in the end and made the playoffs? Look at how great those wins paid off! And who know what will Isiah do with the lottery pick. Maybe there is another 6'9"-6'10" one dimensional player with a big contract he likes so much that he brings him with the pick. Never gets old in this franchise...
Knicks_Fan
OldFan
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4/12/2005  10:06 AM
How could you fault a guy for trying to keep his job. No ones life is on the line here. Herb is paid to win games not lose them. Why should he lose games and lose his job. It makes no sense. Would you do a lousy job for your company and get fired if you thought it was for the long-term good of the company. No coach should ever be blamed for trying to win and keep his job.
Posted by diderotn:

Herb is fighting for a job, and his greed is rendering him clueless.

Posted by MaTT4281:

You can relax. We've been trying to win for how long now, and look where that got us.
It is really frustrating that Herb refuses to play Ariza or Butler, and I was surprised about Ariza. Herb played TT for 40 minutes a night, but doesn't seem to think Trevor can help win the games.
Knicksfan
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4/12/2005  10:08 AM
Posted by OldFan:

How could you fault a guy for trying to keep his job. No ones life is on the line here. Herb is paid to win games not lose them. Why should he lose games and lose his job. It makes no sense. Would you do a lousy job for your company and get fired if you thought it was for the long-term good of the company. No coach should ever be blamed for trying to win and keep his job.
Posted by diderotn:

Herb is fighting for a job, and his greed is rendering him clueless.

Posted by MaTT4281:

You can relax. We've been trying to win for how long now, and look where that got us.
It is really frustrating that Herb refuses to play Ariza or Butler, and I was surprised about Ariza. Herb played TT for 40 minutes a night, but doesn't seem to think Trevor can help win the games.

Very, very true. We may not like it, but we would do the same in his position, so...
Knicks_Fan
djsunyc
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4/12/2005  10:16 AM
i have absolutely nothing negative to say about herb. ZERO. nothing but positives for him. it all comes down to isiah. if isiah mandates herb to play ariza/sweetney/butler 30+ mins, then herb will do it. isiah, for the most part, has let herb coach like he wants. in some lights, that may seem commendable, but not in our case. this is a situation where CLEARLY the GM needs to step in and tell herb what rotation to play. herb will still have a job here next season if he wants it, either in the front office or on the bench, but this has to come from isiah.
crzymdups
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4/12/2005  10:30 AM
status quo around here. I hope everyone is excited for that 9th pick we're getting.
¿ △ ?
rvhoss
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4/12/2005  10:40 AM
I am. I don't see any difference between the 9th and 2nd picks.

if it ain't bogut, who cares.
all kool aid all the time.
Rich
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4/12/2005  10:48 AM
Just lose baby.
crzymdups
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4/12/2005  10:55 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

I am. I don't see any difference between the 9th and 2nd picks.

if it ain't bogut, who cares.

How about the difference between the 9th pick and the 2nd pick in the 2002 draft? The 9th pick, we got Sweetney and there weren't many players worth taking after him. At the secound pick, you could have picked Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Kirk Hinrich, Chris Kaman or Darko. And you can laugh at Darko, but try calling Detroit to see if they'd trade you Sweetney for Darko right now.

Yeah, I guess the only difference between getting a 9th pick and getting a 2nd pick is the future of the franchise.
¿ △ ?
Rich
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4/12/2005  11:04 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by rvhoss:

I am. I don't see any difference between the 9th and 2nd picks.

if it ain't bogut, who cares.

How about the difference between the 9th pick and the 2nd pick in the 2002 draft? The 9th pick, we got Sweetney and there weren't many players worth taking after him. At the secound pick, you could have picked Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Kirk Hinrich, Chris Kaman or Darko. And you can laugh at Darko, but try calling Detroit to see if they'd trade you Sweetney for Darko right now.

Yeah, I guess the only difference between getting a 9th pick and getting a 2nd pick is the future of the franchise.

I can't believe that you have to explain that.
crzymdups
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4/12/2005  11:10 AM
sorry, I'm just sick of this idea that winning a game or two this month does anything but screw up the draft.
¿ △ ?
edsonline
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4/12/2005  11:12 AM
Let Herb do what he wants. It's not like his ideas are getting them a lot of wins. Awesome lotto pick here we come!
BRIGGS
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4/12/2005  11:44 AM
I agree, always play to win, BUT, if anyone wants to dispute this point, we know that we have nothing to gain in our position EXCEPT lottery position. If someone can tell me otherwise, Id like to hear it. Does it matter if the Raptors finish in back of us by a game? Great, we didnt finish in last place, but now they hold leverage over us in the draft.

Play to win, but play the ENTIRE roster -give Sundov Butler Ariza, Jackson a solid chance to play 15-20 minutes, make sure Marbury doesnt get a late season injury by playing 40 minutes[he hasnt missed agame in along time + he played through the Olympics.

i mean teasm who are in the playoffs, who have been successful like Denver--has anyone noticed Denver? They play their entire roster, they have a set 11 MAN rotation and most nights play 12 guys. they have won 25 of 27 games, only lost to Phoenix--they are going to win 50 games after being 8 under .500


The last 5 -6 games should be to see what OTHER guys can do, am I missing something here, even Sundov--he's 7-2 let him play 15 minutes, can anyone tell me a succinct reason why not?

I agree here, Isiah should take charge and order it. If they play the whole team an avg of 24-26 minutes with a 12 man rotation and we win 6 in a row, cool,fine. But pushing the reg against teams that will falter here a bit or have nothing to play for, could care less, or are experimenting with their roster isnt leaving a lasting impression--it didnt do it last year. the team had its chance and it lost 9 in a row when the chances were there. when the money was on the line, it failed miserably. these are clean up games, meaningless


But you see the Knicks are a superior team, we cant be like 99% of other organizations, we have to spend the most, and we have to look stupid doing so!
RIP Crushalot😞
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