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Fire Herb Williams....
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diderotn
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4/9/2005  6:22 PM
I am sick and tired of him for failing to realize that Marb needs to be shut down. At this point, I don't care about him anymore, because he is trying to destroy the one and only guy that has been playing his gutt out for this franchise...What the hell is it going to take for him to realize that we are out of the playoffs race????What the hell is it going to take to realize that Isiah is may not offer him the job??? What the hell is really wrong with this dude???
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gunsnewing
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4/9/2005  6:51 PM
dude its not his fault. He doing what's best for his career. It's Isiah who has to order him to rest the vets and hopefully thats what that 20min postgame meeting between Herb/Isiah was about. I would be shocked if they are still playing the Vets for big minutes now that they are mathimatically eliminated.
MaTT4281
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4/9/2005  7:14 PM
No need to fire him, there's only 7 games left. Why add insult to injury?
I will agree that he has lost my support on bringing him back. If we could demote him back to an assistant, fine, but he hasn't led me to believe he can handle the job next season.
We are officially out of the playoff picture after last night, let's see if things go a little differently.
diderotn
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4/9/2005  11:33 PM
That is exactly what I meant, don't bring him back next season. Oh, while we are at it, don't bring back Kurt Thomas either...We have a bunch of vaginas in our team and we have to change that. Did you hear Kurt and TT's comments after Kidd said what he said???? Those two Thomases' are nothing but vaginas..
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Rich
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4/9/2005  11:36 PM
Herb has as much chance of being the coach next season as you do.
diderotn
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4/11/2005  10:49 AM
Oh, yes we won the game last night, but Marburry still played 47 minutes while the kids that really need burn didn't get to play. Herb is selfish and really doesn't deserve to be the headcoach of this team next season.....Bring in Silas please.
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fishmike
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4/11/2005  11:03 AM
Herb was your sweetheart after Lenny, who was your sweetheart after Chaney. Really think it matters that much? Silas isnt doing anything here. The fact that all the veterans are still playing hard enough to win a road game at Indy should tell you something about Herb.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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4/11/2005  11:20 AM
We had not lost 9 games in a row for 20 years! We needed to win!

Reezy I saw did not play much.

I coached youth one year and we went undefeated. My first seaason and it was fun!

The next year I had an awful team! there was a game where I had to becnch a kid who was blowing it up and infighting with his teamates. I always try to play it fair and give them all minutes. Winning was secondary. I Really really needed this win, and I felt my kids needed to really really get this one done.

I explained to his dad what the deal was and he was cool. The kid had a Michael Jordan complex. everything he had on was a jumpman logo! He thought he was mike, and everyone should just give him the ball and get out of the way. problem was, he sucked. Im mean really sucked. It was funny as hell though, he told my son at 8 years old he was gonna dunk one in the game! Every shot he took was an Airball, or if he got a layup he'e just clank it big time!

The point, somtimes you gotta just get it done, and while it may cost us a ping pong ball, this game gotta give Sweets some big confidence!
diderotn
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4/14/2005  7:22 AM
Herb is strongly being evaluated by Isiah. He is watching Herb's every moves, from his decision making to how he motivates his players. I am not in Isiah's head, but as a GM, I am pretty sure that he is not too happy with Herb decision not to play the youngins especially when it is so evident that we are out of the playoff race. I know that Herb wants to win to keep his job, but part of his evaluation also has to do with the smart decisions that he makes to help improve the ball club, I.E. how to position us to get a higher draft pick. So far, Herb has it all working against him....
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fishmike
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4/14/2005  7:31 AM
If that was the case ISiah would say something right? Or maybe he just doesnt want to hurt Herb's feelings?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
diderotn
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4/14/2005  8:40 AM
Isiah has given Herb a rope to hang himself, but Herb has yet to realize that. He failed to put Ariza on the floor the other night, and still has yet to play JB. On his quest for a win, he continues to overuse both Kurt and Marburry while neither of the two are healthy....Herb is not worthy of a headcoaching job just yet, because he doesn't properly use his assets...
Posted by fishmike:

If that was the case ISiah would say something right? Or maybe he just doesnt want to hurt Herb's feelings?
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NYKBocker
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4/14/2005  9:35 AM
Do you really think that playing Marbs his regular minutes would hurt him? There are only 7 games left for heavens sake. Take a chill pill. While I would love to see more of Ariza and a little of Jackie Butler, these last few games will not make or break their careers. This is done in the off-season where you work your butt-off to eliminate weaknesses. The summer league should be a good tool for both kids.

Herb came from the school of Padre Riles where JVG was the principal. They don't like playing rookies. Hopefully, Herb can adjust and actually play youngins that are worthy.

Nalod - Man, I had a great team last winter on my sons CYO 3rd/4th grade team. We went undefeated and the other coaches and the AD for the league were upset with us because we killed everybody. They were arguing that I shouldn't be coaching kids on how to execute the pick-and-roll and how to play defense. The AD actually instructed the refs to call everything on us and none on the other teams. Geesh. Hopefully, I will get another good group of kids.
fishmike
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4/14/2005  9:54 AM
Posted by diderotn:

Isiah has given Herb a rope to hang himself, but Herb has yet to realize that. He failed to put Ariza on the floor the other night, and still has yet to play JB. On his quest for a win, he continues to overuse both Kurt and Marburry while neither of the two are healthy....Herb is not worthy of a headcoaching job just yet, because he doesn't properly use his assets...
Posted by fishmike:

If that was the case ISiah would say something right? Or maybe he just doesnt want to hurt Herb's feelings?
So now our GM is HOPING that his coach will fail? What kind of backwards thinking is this? You can spin it anyway you want, but every spin comes back to the same guy, and thats the man at the top. Isiah. Whether its having the wrong coach or a coach that isnt following the direction of the organization its the GM that has to set it straight.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
diderotn
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4/14/2005  10:25 AM
Fish! you have continued to blame Isiah for the failure of this team. Although I agree with you 25% on this subject, but I will not completely put all the blames on him. When you have a company, you hire people to do the job, and if they are not performing, you have to get rid of them. The Knicks are no different than a regular corporation. Isiah as the CEO has to at least show some trust on his employees. He gave Herb a chance to succeed, but somehow, he has yet to do so. There comes a time in every men professional life where a decision has to be made, and Herb has reached that time. It is not in Herb best interes to continue to play Marb and Kurt, because both of them have logged a lot of minutes throughout the season and most of all, they are both banged up. If you have a GM who is not micromanaging your every move, you must not wait on him to tell you to shut a player down. Herb has the green light to win or lose the job, and there are many ways that he could have done that. One of them is to play the youngins and show the administration that those kids can be receptive to his leadership and battle for him, or play the vets and see if they could win some games for him. He is playing the vets, and they have only won 2 out of 16 games so far. I am not against Herb, but I despise his decision not to play Ariza, JB, Sweetney, and others just to allow the organization to see which route that they should go. To me, that is a sign of greed and plain incompetence.

Posted by fishmike:
Posted by diderotn:

Isiah has given Herb a rope to hang himself, but Herb has yet to realize that. He failed to put Ariza on the floor the other night, and still has yet to play JB. On his quest for a win, he continues to overuse both Kurt and Marburry while neither of the two are healthy....Herb is not worthy of a headcoaching job just yet, because he doesn't properly use his assets...
Posted by fishmike:

If that was the case ISiah would say something right? Or maybe he just doesnt want to hurt Herb's feelings?
So now our GM is HOPING that his coach will fail? What kind of backwards thinking is this? You can spin it anyway you want, but every spin comes back to the same guy, and thats the man at the top. Isiah. Whether its having the wrong coach or a coach that isnt following the direction of the organization its the GM that has to set it straight.
The true Knickabocker..........
fishmike
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4/14/2005  11:02 AM
first of all how do you know what Herb has the green light to do and not do?

second, as for whos responsible I think it goes something like this:

Players #1. If they stink you wont win. Now we have seen some good groups underachieve and other groups overachieve. In both of those I would say 80% goes to the GM who assembled a group of players with skills that either fit or dont fit, and 20% to the coach who creates a system for them to thrive in.

Is it a shock that Larry Brown and Rick Carlisle both had the same Piston team playing the same style of ball? Or does Dumars get credit for putting together a group of long athletic defensive players together.

Which goes back to what I have been saying over and over and over. What kind of style would you like this group of Knicks to play? Do Mo Taylor, KT, Sweetney and Nazr fit in an uptempo style of play? Do Crawford, Ariza and TT fit in a half court style of play? No matter what style of play or what plan ANY coach comes out with, HALF the players will be asked to play a style that doesnt fit their game. THATS on the GM, and that makes it hard to win, what you arent able to utilize half your talent.

The only guy that truly looks good on both styles is Marbury, which is true of most elite players.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
MaulingandAppalling
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4/14/2005  11:11 AM
The Knicks will lose more than they will under Herb, independent of roster.
diderotn
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4/14/2005  11:15 AM
Ok, Detroit success is of a result of Larry Brown designing a system that fits the talents that he has around. Same goes for Phil when he first assumed the job in LA. Larry's style is as simple as 1,2, and 3. Play hard, attack the basket, and value your possession. He tried that in Philly, and everywhere that he has been. You can't discount the value of a great coach my friend. Look, Karl has inherrited the same team that 2 other coaches have had in Denver, within less than 2 months, he has that team playing at a very high level. Fratello, same thing. Listen, I don't care how many great musicians or (players) that you have around, if you don't have a good maestro to arrange, coordinate, and direct them, there will not be harmony; the sound will not come out right. You need a great coach to drive a team...a championship team I mean..

Posted by fishmike:

first of all how do you know what Herb has the green light to do and not do?

second, as for whos responsible I think it goes something like this:

Players #1. If they stink you wont win. Now we have seen some good groups underachieve and other groups overachieve. In both of those I would say 80% goes to the GM who assembled a group of players with skills that either fit or dont fit, and 20% to the coach who creates a system for them to thrive in.

Is it a shock that Larry Brown and Rick Carlisle both had the same Piston team playing the same style of ball? Or does Dumars get credit for putting together a group of long athletic defensive players together.

Which goes back to what I have been saying over and over and over. What kind of style would you like this group of Knicks to play? Do Mo Taylor, KT, Sweetney and Nazr fit in an uptempo style of play? Do Crawford, Ariza and TT fit in a half court style of play? No matter what style of play or what plan ANY coach comes out with, HALF the players will be asked to play a style that doesnt fit their game. THATS on the GM, and that makes it hard to win, what you arent able to utilize half your talent.

The only guy that truly looks good on both styles is Marbury, which is true of most elite players.
The true Knickabocker..........
Bonn1997
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4/14/2005  11:17 AM
Maybe Diderton and Fish can single-handedly turn this into a 12 page thread like the Jackie Butler one
diderotn
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4/14/2005  11:38 AM
See, Fish and I can have a respectful dialogue over the direction of our ball-club. Unlike some other fans, we can agree to disagree...

Posted by Bonn1997:

Maybe Diderton and Fish can single-handedly turn this into a 12 page thread like the Jackie Butler one
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MaulingandAppalling
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4/14/2005  11:48 AM
You can agree to disagree, but can you agree to take a joke?
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