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Kurt Trade Poll
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Bonn1997
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Would you trade Kurt on draft day for a late 1st rd pick (22 to 29)?
Yes, trade Kurt for the pick
No, keep Kurt
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Bonn1997
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4/7/2005  2:01 PM
I'd vote yes. Obviously a player would have to be added to make the salaries match, but as long we're not getting a horrible player with 6 years left on his contract, I'd do the deal.

The only scenario in which I wouldn't do the deal was if Isiah were confident he could get Zach or Eddy or another low-post scorer, whose game would work perfectly on offense with Kurt.
AUTOADVERT
Killa4luv
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4/7/2005  2:10 PM
NO. Who are we likely to get that is gonna be worth Kurt. I think Kurts value is more as trade asset than as a pick. We could get something better for Kurt. And we already have a pick close to that range, we could probably pay to move up. We're 30th over all, it would probably be kinda easy to move from 30 to 24,22.
OldFan
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4/7/2005  2:56 PM
No.

You can get a good player at these positions but the odds are against you. Out of the last 40 players drafted at these positions - 11/40 not in the leage league, 15/40 avg 5+ pts and/or 5+ rebounds this year.

Are there even 10 players that you would rather have then KT?

(Sorry if I made any errors on these lists - didn't have all day to
spend on it but I think it is about right.)

Of course it also depends on how deep you think the draft is.

2004: Viktor Khryapa (+) , Sergie Monia, Delonte West (+), Tony Allen(++),Kevin Martin(+), Sasha Vujacio, Bono Udrith, David Harrison

2003: Zoran Planinic(++), Travis Outlaw(+), Brian Cook(++), Carlos Delfino(+), Ndudi Ebi(+), Kendrick Perkins(+), Leandrinhom Barbosa(++), Josh Howard(+++)

2002: Casey Jacobsen(++), Tayshuan Prince(++++), Nenad Krstic(+++), Frank Williams(+), John Salmons(+), Chris Jefferies, Dan Dickau(+++), Steve Logan

2001: Jeryl Sasser, Brandon Armstrong(+), Raul Lopez(+++), Gerald Wallace(+++), Samual Delembert(++++), Jamall Tinsley(+++), Tony Parker(+++), Trenton Hassell(++)

2000 Donnell Harvey, DeShawn Stevenson(++), Dlibor Zagreb, Tsakalidis(+),Mamadou N'Diaye(+), Ljubljana, Erick Barkley, Mark Madsen(+)

I gave a "+" for being in the league and for averaging 5.0 pts, 5.0 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 1.5 blocks this year.
Bonn1997
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4/7/2005  3:23 PM
Hmmm. So far, everyone who's replying is saying no, but everyone who's voting is voting yes! Bizarre...
OldFan
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4/7/2005  3:26 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Hmmm. So far, everyone who's replying is saying no, but everyone who's voting is voting yes! Bizarre...

Could it be some people put some thought and research into their answers?
rain
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4/7/2005  3:28 PM
I vote yes. That way we could package two first rounders and get someone like Frye or Diogu. Two players that are better than Sweetney right now.
crzymdups
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4/7/2005  3:29 PM
absolutely, you do it if you can, without taking back more salary. BUT, the reality is, no one is going to give up a first round pick to take back KT's contract for the enxt three years. They can just draft one of the many young PFs like Simien or Turiaf and keep him at a much cheaper rate.

We'd have better luck trying to swap our Spurs 2006 pick plus cash to a team around #20 (does Denver want both picks this year? they might want to only take one pick to save the cap room so they can sign a premier SG this summer).

I'd offer Denver $3million plus our Spurs 2006 pick for the #20 pick. At 20, we might be able to get Petro or Frye or Warrick or Villanueva.
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Allanfan20
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4/7/2005  3:34 PM
Trading Kurt for just a late first rounder is very risky. You better be getting something else in return. Kurt is a very good player and brings a lot to the team. Heck, most of Stephons assists probably go to KT b/c of that pick and roll which has been quite valuable. If you're going to trade somebody for Kurt, you better at least know what you're getting in return. If it's a pick that turns out to be a nobody, then this team is going to take a big hit. If the pick turns out to be a guy like Travis Outlaw (Who I was actually interested in drafting a couple of years ago) then it's probably worth it.

Kurt isn't a guy that you trade for the sake of trading him, like we did when we traded friggin' Moochie and Vin for Taylor.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Killa4luv
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4/7/2005  3:40 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

absolutely, you do it if you can, without taking back more salary. BUT, the reality is, no one is going to give up a first round pick to take back KT's contract for the enxt three years. They can just draft one of the many young PFs like Simien or Turiaf and keep him at a much cheaper rate.

We'd have better luck trying to swap our Spurs 2006 pick plus cash to a team around #20 (does Denver want both picks this year? they might want to only take one pick to save the cap room so they can sign a premier SG this summer).

I'd offer Denver $3million plus our Spurs 2006 pick for the #20 pick. At 20, we might be able to get Petro or Frye or Warrick or Villanueva.
I like this idea.
jaydh
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4/7/2005  5:03 PM
its so true, this is becoming a youngmans game, where most veterans arent worth squat to other teams since the draft offers better talent.

teams would rather take a chance on a young player in the draft than add a solid veteran(who is old,and a little pricey)

[Edited by - jaydh on 04/07/2005 17:05:00]
Rich
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4/7/2005  6:07 PM
Kurt will be in severe decline by the time the Knicks can compete for a title, if that day ever comes. The same holds true for Marbury.
Bonn1997
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4/7/2005  6:20 PM
Posted by Rich:

Kurt will be in severe decline by the time the Knicks can compete for a title, if that day ever comes. The same holds true for Marbury.
I'd agree on Kurt. Marbury's only 28, though, and has shown no signs of aging.
Killa4luv
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4/7/2005  6:26 PM
Marbs has at least 4 more years at a high level, barring injury. Look at J. Kidd and Steve Nash, those guys are no spring chickens either. Kidd just turned 32 2 weeks ago. I think Nash is 30 or 31. Marbs is 4 seasons till hes 31. Thats plenty of time. Not to mention what should be happening between this off season and the trade dealine! it could all be turned around really quickly.
Rich
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4/7/2005  9:37 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:

Kurt will be in severe decline by the time the Knicks can compete for a title, if that day ever comes. The same holds true for Marbury.
I'd agree on Kurt. Marbury's only 28, though, and has shown no signs of aging.

But how many years does he have left at this level? If the Knicks cannot obtain a dominant big man in his prime, but are able to draft one, that player won't reach his peak for three or four years. At that point, Marbury could begin to decline.

Aside from the age factor, I have been displeased with his lack of composure in the waning minutes of games.
BRIGGS
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4/7/2005  10:53 PM
I'll give you an answer. Yes, absolutely, but I would be much more aggresive. I would start with New Jersey Orlando, Minnesota for the 13-14-15. Here is why. Kurt will be 33 next year. If I can change 33 into 22 year old Channing Frye, or 21 year old ray Felton, 19 yO Johan Petro et al, Im doing it. This team needs change, and it desperately needs young fresh legs and size and or quicknes off the bench. You want to get reasonable value for it. Im not going to give KT away, but if I can identify a player in the top 15-25 that I believe can be an important cog going forward, its a no-brainer.

KT is a good player who is starting to age. We have already been down this road. He is just not a good fit here anymore. We could really use a draft like what Chicago had. It invigorated their team. KT doesnt look like he wants to be here anymore. Change for him and the Knicks at this point is healthy. Let him play next to KG, Dwight, Yao etc....

Maybe we can get Zach Randolph in here, maybe we can get 3-4 impact type rookies--not necessarily scoring 20 points of the bat, but giving us life and new hope.


I think anyone can reasonably understand this. we havent won with KT, it's time for change while he has value.
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OldFan
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4/8/2005  9:21 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I'll give you an answer. Yes, absolutely, but I would be much more aggresive. I would start with New Jersey Orlando, Minnesota for the 13-14-15. Here is why. Kurt will be 33 next year. If I can change 33 into 22 year old Channing Frye, or 21 year old ray Felton, 19 yO Johan Petro et al, Im doing it. This team needs change, and it desperately needs young fresh legs and size and or quicknes off the bench. You want to get reasonable value for it. Im not going to give KT away, but if I can identify a player in the top 15-25 that I believe can be an important cog going forward, its a no-brainer.

KT is a good player who is starting to age. We have already been down this road. He is just not a good fit here anymore. We could really use a draft like what Chicago had. It invigorated their team. KT doesnt look like he wants to be here anymore. Change for him and the Knicks at this point is healthy. Let him play next to KG, Dwight, Yao etc....

Maybe we can get Zach Randolph in here, maybe we can get 3-4 impact type rookies--not necessarily scoring 20 points of the bat, but giving us life and new hope.


I think anyone can reasonably understand this. we havent won with KT, it's time for change while he has value.

Briggs you changed the question. The question was would you take a 22-29. Would you?

I would be much more inclined to do it for a mid first round pick then a late first round pick.

I think you are mentioning a key point about understanding his market value. Even if a player has no value to you - you always need to find out what is the max you can get for him. I don't think a late first round pick is the max.
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