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Would everyone agree this policy of taking back a CRP contract hasnt worked well?
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BRIGGS
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4/6/2005  2:55 PM
that we should be more stringent in demands? I hear someone saying we should trade for Zach[who ALREADY has 80mm coming to him] and yes we did just spend an additional 40mm on PF at the deadline, but thats OK, yet why would we ALSO want to take a SHOT Ratliff who makes more than 10mm per for a few AND give them a pick?

This is the worst business model. Its gotten us in so much trouble already.

If these teams want to dump players, ending contract and one asset MAX. Zach Randolph ISNT VC--I believe the price of an ending contract[which saves the blazers 67MM Mike Sweetney==equivilant to atleast a 20 pick in the draft and a second round pick of our choice is a maxmimum offer.

RIP Crushalot😞
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Bonn1997
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4/6/2005  3:00 PM
I'd say we need to give Isiah much more time than 15 months to see whether his strategy will work or not. I definitely don't mind having Marbury on the team, whom we couldn't have gotten without taking back a bad contract. Use the same strategy for a few more players and Marbury will finally have a solid supporting cast. Then we'll see whether the strategy works or not.

Your post right now at this time is similar to a team deciding to rebuild through the draft, not having great success in the following year's draft, and then concluding that you can't rebuild via the draft. Fifteen months is just WAAAAAAY too early to rule out any strategy.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 04/06/2005 15:02:32]
franco12
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4/6/2005  4:23 PM
I don't see how its financially possible to take on another bad contract.

If you're moving Penny & TT for similar deals that brought us Crawford and JYD, then we're capped out forever @ over $100M.

I don't mind moving one of those two players for someone like Jalen Rose who is serviceable & only has one more year than the player we trade him for.

While these deals have increase our talent level, they've decreased our flexibility in a big, big way.
djsunyc
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4/6/2005  4:38 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I'd say we need to give Isiah much more time than 15 months to see whether his strategy will work or not.

strategy was in place since 01 - just a different guy doing it.

messing up in the draft doesn't set you back years and years and years. messing up with big contracts do. it puts you in this vicious cycle of constantly moving bad contracts around for players that aren't worth it. then, at the end of the day, you're paying $100 mil for a team that struggles to make the 8th seed or in the case now, struggles to win 30 games.
fishmike
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4/6/2005  4:40 PM
another 15 months of this and the only thing thats saves us is the team plane crashing
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nyk4ever
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4/6/2005  4:57 PM
Posted by fishmike:

another 15 months of this and the only thing thats saves us is the team plane crashing

Haha, I've said the same thing before Fish. David Stern would certainly have to give us the #1 pick and a fresh payroll!
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
crzymdups
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4/6/2005  5:03 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by fishmike:

another 15 months of this and the only thing thats saves us is the team plane crashing

Haha, I've said the same thing before Fish. David Stern would certainly have to give us the #1 pick and a fresh payroll!

geez, guys.
¿ △ ?
nyk4ever
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4/6/2005  5:26 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by fishmike:

another 15 months of this and the only thing thats saves us is the team plane crashing

Haha, I've said the same thing before Fish. David Stern would certainly have to give us the #1 pick and a fresh payroll!

geez, guys.

I know, I know its harsh! As I've said before though, imagine what it must be like down in Atlanta for those fans, the Hawks have sucked FOREVER and it doesnt seem like theres any light at the end of the tunner for them either. The Knicks have it bad but there are worse situations out there.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
franco12
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4/6/2005  5:32 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by fishmike:

another 15 months of this and the only thing thats saves us is the team plane crashing

Haha, I've said the same thing before Fish. David Stern would certainly have to give us the #1 pick and a fresh payroll!

geez, guys.

I know, I know its harsh! As I've said before though, imagine what it must be like down in Atlanta for those fans, the Hawks have sucked FOREVER and it doesnt seem like theres any light at the end of the tunner for them either. The Knicks have it bad but there are worse situations out there.

I think I'd rather have Atlanta than the Knicks- you get a bad team there, but they have no payroll and no talent.

The knicks have the largest payroll out there & they have some individually talented players not living up to expectations.

Marbs, TT & Crawford are probably better than any player from the Hawks
Bonn1997
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4/6/2005  7:44 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I'd say we need to give Isiah much more time than 15 months to see whether his strategy will work or not.

strategy was in place since 01 - just a different guy doing it.
that's a huge difference
VDesai
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4/6/2005  7:49 PM
We're piling on immovable objects here and they only guys we can get now are as flawed or more flawed then the guys we give. We can band aid it and make the playoffs for 1 year, lose in the first round and suck the next, but the best for us to get better long term is to take a few guys in the draft, really develop them and hope 1 or 2 become the stars we need.

We just can't overreact for short term fixes.
TMS
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4/6/2005  7:56 PM
Would everyone agree this policy of taking back a CRP contract hasnt worked well?

& yet you would trade for Zach Randolph.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Killa4luv
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4/6/2005  8:06 PM
Our immovable guys are
Marbs an all star talent in his prime, that works for me.

Taylor, which isn't so bad, I thik he'll help us tremendously next year and when he does he wil be moveable. He makes 9.7 in his last year, alot but not crazy, and its H20's same year too.

JYD which isn't so bad his contract isn't crazy its like 7 mill in his last year.

Malik Rose dito, but I would agree that there is a problem with having them both, whose contracts are about 2 years longer than H20. Still its only 14 mill.

Plus, these guys contribute and would be moveable with someone like Sweets. Or one of our draft picks.

H20, this is as bad as it gets, max money and no contribution. No one could have predicted he would not be playing we he signed that deal (he was an NBA ironman at the time) but it goes without saying that the deal was too much. Anyway you slice it he have still been paid alot of money though, maybe he'd make 16 or 17 in his last year instead of 21, that 5 mill wouldn't make much of a difference IMO.
VDesai
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4/6/2005  8:39 PM
Those guys definitely don't sound so bad individually, but collectively we have around 60 million a year tied up into those guys for at least a couple more seasons, which is huge hamstring, as those 5 don't really make up a solid core. If you are able to move a couple, you'll be getting flawed, highly paid guys back as well and looking at bandages for your roster.

IMO, rather than continue with the vicious cycle for short term fixes, lets grind it to a halt, and gradually add some talent through the draft. I don't want to see a a team that can at best win 45 for a year or 2, but also have the ability to come crashing down. Long term flexbility is key.
Bonn1997
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4/6/2005  8:45 PM
Posted by VDesai:

We're piling on immovable objects here and they only guys we can get now are as flawed or more flawed then the guys we give.

That doesn't make sense to me. There are some grounds to criticize the Isiah trade approach on but this doesn't seem to be one of them:

Marbury has more flaws than which of the players that we gave up for him?
Howard Eisley
Lampe
McDyess
Milos Vujanic
Charlie Ward

Malik Rose (plus 2 late 1st picks) has more flaws than Nazy Mohammed?

Mo Taylor has more flaws than Vin Baker and Moochie Norris?

You could argue that Crawford has more flaws (and more strengths) than the players he was traded for, but having one out of four trades support your claim isn't compelling.
VDesai
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4/6/2005  8:54 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by VDesai:

We're piling on immovable objects here and they only guys we can get now are as flawed or more flawed then the guys we give.

That doesn't make sense to me. There are some grounds to criticize the Isiah trade approach on but this doesn't seem to be one of them:

Marbury has more flaws than which of the players that we gave up for him?
Howard Eisley
Lampe
McDyess
Milos Vujanic
Charlie Ward

Malik Rose (plus 2 late 1st picks) has more flaws than Nazy Mohammed?

Mo Taylor has more flaws than Vin Baker and Moochie Norris?

You could argue that Crawford has more flaws (and more strengths) than the players he was traded for, but having one out of four trades support your claim isn't compelling.
We got Penny and Marbury, and Marbury was a bandaid to make us better short term. Penny is no longer a useful player with a bad contract, and we had to sit through 2 season of him at least. Rose/Taylor haven't necessarily made us better, but made our roster more flawed. None of these players has made us better. We got good enough for a run last year, but came crashing down again. It's likely that whoever we trade them for would have the same effect. Its a bad cycle.

At some point the better strategy is to stop recycling and adding on, and just to let them go. It's not helping.
nyk4ever
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4/6/2005  9:02 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by VDesai:

We're piling on immovable objects here and they only guys we can get now are as flawed or more flawed then the guys we give.

That doesn't make sense to me. There are some grounds to criticize the Isiah trade approach on but this doesn't seem to be one of them:

Marbury has more flaws than which of the players that we gave up for him?
Howard Eisley
Lampe
McDyess
Milos Vujanic
Charlie Ward

Malik Rose (plus 2 late 1st picks) has more flaws than Nazy Mohammed?

Mo Taylor has more flaws than Vin Baker and Moochie Norris?

You could argue that Crawford has more flaws (and more strengths) than the players he was traded for, but having one out of four trades support your claim isn't compelling.
We got Penny and Marbury, and Marbury was a bandaid to make us better short term. Penny is no longer a useful player with a bad contract, and we had to sit through 2 season of him at least. Rose/Taylor haven't necessarily made us better, but made our roster more flawed. None of these players has made us better. We got good enough for a run last year, but came crashing down again. It's likely that whoever we trade them for would have the same effect. Its a bad cycle.

At some point the better strategy is to stop recycling and adding on, and just to let them go. It's not helping.

I agree with you about Penny but his contract is up after next year and chances are he wont last with the team past the trading deadline, if not earlier. Rose was not obtained as a player that was going to put the Knicks over the top this year. He was obtained so that after this offseason or by the time next years trade deadline comes around and the Knicks obtained a big post prescence that Malik would be able to come off the bench and spark the team with his defense and leadership. Right now it's baby steps into making this team where it needs to be to contend. If that means obtaining pieces like Taylor who can be used as a good offensive punch against opposing 2nd unit Defenses and future trade piece then fine. Rebuilding doesnt happen overnite anywhere UNLESS you get extremely lucky. I'm patient and I see the light necause of the pieces that we already have and will have after this draft.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 04/06/2005 21:03:54]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
simrud
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4/7/2005  1:47 AM
hahaha, the plain thing is too funny, I'v said that before duing games a couple of times, I thought I was the only one who got that mad to joke bout that lol.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Rich
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4/7/2005  2:09 AM
Blow the damn thing up and start over.
Solace
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4/7/2005  4:06 AM
The plane comment was hilarious. It was wrong in so many ways, but it's funny on the dark-side of humor. Man, that was one of the most ridiculously awesome things I've heard in a while.

Best one since the Mustafaab arrested web page.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
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Would everyone agree this policy of taking back a CRP contract hasnt worked well?
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