Only Oscar Robertson and Marbs have career avg of 20 pts and 8 assists.

Say Steph plays another 6 years, and does not win a title, is he hall of fame material?

Can't argue his stats, but he really pulls his team down with him to get those stats. Marbs has got to leave those stats behind, and focus on being a team player if he is to achieve anything but indvidual success.

There is a site I forget where that shows a formula for HOF. Stats are important, but MVP awards, MVP of playoffs, championships won, All star appearences, etc really define entry. While 20-8 is a good stat, Marbs is failing to accomplish much to make his teams better, or go further!


Domninique Wilkins did not make it in the HOF on his first try. I think the lack of success of his teams really was the reason. He was a great player no doubt, but winning must be accounted for! Same might be true about Adrian Dantley.

At the same level, Denis Rodman must be considered because he has 5 rings and contributed to each effort. HIs rebounds and steal stats are very good, but he was no star! One of the true great role players of this generation! A true freak, but that freak was a winner. All his antics aside, he should be in the HOF!

[Edited by - nalod on 04/06/2005 09:23:34]

[Edited by - nalod on 04/06/2005 09:33:50]

man I do agree and man do I get crap for saying what you just said. Dom was a SICK scorer but I think he inspired Clyde to come up with the phrase "matador D"
You have to score points to win but in a lot of ways I think what Rodman did was more impressive. We are talking about a guy that averaged OVER 18 boards a game for something like 3 of 4 years in the middle of his career. He was 6'6, a superior defender and he got into the heads of his opponents.

I dont know why one guy in DW who was clearly only good at one thing would be considered so much more valueable than another guy clearly good at one thing.

Those Piston teams had good players and good bigmen, but they won because Vinny, Dumars and ISiah got so many extra chances. It was like playing horse, only the guy your playing against gets to shoot 4 times, while you only get 3. Thats what playing with Rodman was like. He mad extra chances. If they credited a rebound for everytime he tipped the offensive board back out to a shooter he would have had another 3-4 a game.

Living here in Atlanta I caught a lot of flak when I said that pippen was more deserving of a top 50 player spot than nique. I liked nique a lot but I can't discount that pippen was a winner and that Jordan never won without pippen..

Anyway, Marbs can still get his 20/8, but he has to realize that it is about the team first, all about the team, I watched yesterday, steph had a break, he got the ball with a defender down court, trevor was filling the middle lane hard and a simple dish back would have led to an ariza dunk, instead marbs took it right in and got fouled... things like that just upset me, and if it upsets me, I wonder what it does with his teamates.. Steph can score at will, what he needs to do is to score late in games when it matters most, guys like ariza, sweetney, need to be fed, young growing boys in this league need to eat, if they eat,they will play harder, steph needs to understand this, because next year could possibly be the youngest knicks team we have ever seen..

If Marbury is surrounded by a half decent frontcourt, I suspect his team will have enough sucess that this discussion is irrelevant. But to address the question, no, I don't think a player who hasn't made it far in the playoffs should be in the hall of fame (e.g., Marbury if he never makes it past the first round, Dominique for his whole career). Basketball is about winning.

nique CARRIED his team to the ECF game 7 against the celtics in their prime.

he averaged 25.4 pts, 6.7 rebs and 2.6 asts in 56 career playoff games.